Loan Watch Troy Parrott - Excelsior Rotterdam

[Tottenhamboy85]

18. hopefully he can add to his one league start before he's 20.

So poch does play them young. Quick million years that

 

[wirE]

Quality celebration!

«I’m sorry ref, I seem to lost my shirt»

 

[Blake Griffin]

So poch does play them young. Quick million years that

18 is two years older than 16.

 

[Tottenhamboy85]

18 is two years older than 16.

Both pulled out of the academy and put into the first team.

Can poch utilise our youth players better yep off course I said above Skipp should be ahead of Wanyama especially as we was trying to sell him but this he won’t play youngsters isn’t correct

 

[coys200]

I think against lower opposition there should always be 1 youth player on bench. Because you have situations like yesterday which would have been perfect for Parrott debut.

 

[Shadydan]

I think against lower opposition there should always be 1 youth player on bench. Because you have situations like yesterday which would have been perfect for Parrott debut.

Gonna be extremely difficult to get on the pitch, our bench these days is very impressive.

 

[Blake Griffin]

I think against lower opposition there should always be 1 youth player on bench. Because you have situations like yesterday which would have been perfect for Parrott debut.

poch has said before that he doesn't believe in "easy" minutes for youth players because it does nothing to prepare them for the rigours of a "real" game, that's great logic and all but in doing so you're just cutting off yet another avenue into the first team and instead you end up with players getting into their 20s with little to no game time behind them and then people act surprised when they look completely undercooked. i go back to the example above about the barca kid, he's just been given 45 minutes in one game and then backed that up with another 60 last night, now that shouldn't be a run of games to shout about but since he's been here i don't think poch has even given those same back-to-back of minutes to an academy player under the age of 20, let alone a 16 year old. yes he's brought in alli with his near 100 games worth of senior experience and played him a lot and he will no doubt do similarly with sessegnon but he hasn't shown to do this with those who have no senior experience.

skipp did start a game at 18 but i'm talking more about trusting them enough to give them a sustained run, it's no good giving him the odd game and then following that up by demoting him in place of a crocked wanyama who you've been trying to sell all summer, i have nothing against wanyama and i don't know, maybe even in his current state he might still be a better option than skipp but he's not the future and he's not even really the present either, whereas skipp might be if given the correct chances.

i hope it will be different with parrott but i have no real reason to believe that will be the case, again he might get the occasional cup outing but until he's gone through poch's three year vetting process first i don't expect to see him getting any real game time very soon. in some ways i hope the apparent interest in parrott from abroad is real as it may push poch into navigating away from how he usually works, in a similar way to how bayern's interest in hudson-odoi forced chelsea into playing him much earlier than they really would have liked.

 

[Dougal]

He scores when he wants...

 

[Locotoro]

poch has said before that he doesn't believe in "easy" minutes for youth players because it does nothing to prepare them for the rigours of a "real" game, that's great logic and all but in doing so you're just cutting off yet another avenue into the first team and instead you end up with players getting into their 20s with little to no game time behind them and then people act surprised when they look completely undercooked. i go back to the example above about the barca kid, he's just been given 45 minutes in one game and then backed that up with another 60 last night, now that shouldn't be a run of games to shout about but since he's been here i don't think poch has even given those same back-to-back of minutes to an academy player under the age of 20, let alone a 16 year old. yes he's brought in alli with his near 100 games worth of senior experience and played him a lot and he will no doubt do similarly with sessegnon but he hasn't shown to do this with those who have no senior experience.

skipp did start a game at 18 but i'm talking more about trusting them enough to give them a sustained run, it's no good giving him the odd game and then following that up by demoting him in place of a crocked wanyama who you've been trying to sell all summer, i have nothing against wanyama and i don't know, maybe even in his current state he might still be a better option than skipp but he's not the future and he's not even really the present either, whereas skipp might be if given the correct chances.

i hope it will be different with parrott but i have no real reason to believe that will be the case, again he might get the occasional cup outing but until he's gone through poch's three year vetting process first i don't expect to see him getting any real game time very soon. in some ways i hope the apparent interest in parrott from abroad is real as it may push poch into navigating away from how he usually works, in a similar way to how bayern's interest in hudson-odoi forced chelsea into playing him much earlier than they really would have liked.

This is completely missing the point.

If you read the recent Skipp interview and the countless interviews with Winks, Mason, Kane, and every single player who has been successful under Poch you will recognise that they specifically express how beneficial Poch's approach as been to their development.

Skipp: "It's all happened so fast and credit to the manager for trusting me to be in and around the first team. It's amazing, it's more than I ever could have wished for."

Throughout those interviews, Skipp keeps using the word "Trust" - the manager's trust, the player's trust, earning trust. These players are not being brought into the fold based on ability alone. It's mental application and creating trust within the squad. Eriksen was dropped because other players/Poch may not have "trusted" his mind was ready, Lucas/Son took almost a season to adapt and be trusted as a starter. Who did he persist with despite the fan's dismay? Sissoko, who was putting in the shift of two players even though he was not performing. Njie, Nkoudou, Janssen - all three with a fair amount of league experience were not brought into the first team with any real consistency because they weren't showing the focus and earning the trust of the team. This isn't an exclusively youth academy approach. This is simply the way Poch will bring a player into the team and give them the opportunity to train with the squad.

I value all the input on youth players and their strengths and weaknesses from you and all the others in the know however this painting of Poch as being unable to integrate youth is completely false and disingenuous. He takes the same approach to everyone and waits until he sees that a player has earnt the trust of his teammates and the coaching staff before putting them into the first team rotation. It's about earning that place on the field not getting it by default because you're old enough/good enough and its a philosophy that has seen Spurs go from perennial soft belly show ponies to one of the hardest-working teams in the league.

 

[Blake Griffin]

This is completely missing the point.

If you read the recent Skipp interview and the countless interviews with Winks, Mason, Kane, and every single player who has been successful under Poch you will recognise that they specifically express how beneficial Poch's approach as been to their development.

Skipp: "It's all happened so fast and credit to the manager for trusting me to be in and around the first team. It's amazing, it's more than I ever could have wished for."

Throughout those interviews, Skipp keeps using the word "Trust" - the manager's trust, the player's trust, earning trust. These players are not being brought into the fold based on ability alone. It's mental application and creating trust within the squad. Eriksen was dropped because other players/Poch may not have "trusted" his mind was ready, Lucas/Son took almost a season to adapt and be trusted as a starter. Who did he persist with despite the fan's dismay? Sissoko, who was putting in the shift of two players even though he was not performing. Njie, Nkoudou, Janssen - all three with a fair amount of league experience were not brought into the first team with any real consistency because they weren't showing the focus and earning the trust of the team. This isn't an exclusively youth academy approach. This is simply the way Poch will bring a player into the team and give them the opportunity to train with the squad.

I value all the input on youth players and their strengths and weaknesses from you and all the others in the know however this painting of Poch as being unable to integrate youth is completely false and disingenuous. He takes the same approach to everyone and waits until he sees that a player has earnt the trust of his teammates and the coaching staff before putting them into the first team rotation. It's about earning that place on the field not getting it by default because you're old enough/good enough and its a philosophy that has seen Spurs go from perennial soft belly show ponies to one of the hardest-working teams in the league.

of course they're going to talk him up, it's in their best interest to do so and they're hardly going to say something negative about their own manager.

poch says a lot of good things but his approach is unrealistic, to take a youth player out of playing football at any level for several years and then expect them to then jump in at some point and perform to the same level as established high quality 1st teamers(which is essentially what you are saying here when you say earning their trust) just isn't going to happen, or at least not very often - case in point being that winks is the only to come through it in poch's six years at the club. it is my belief that no amount of training or "trust" is sufficient enough replacement for missing years of matches, especially in those critical development ages between 17-21.

this idealistic belief from pochettino has funnelled down to the rest of the academy as well, since he's been in charge the youngest player to go out on loan was edwards at 19 and even then that was under a different set of circumstances than normal. under previous regimes we regularly had 18 year olds and even a few at 17 go out on loan, the likes of kane/mason/townsend/carroll/caulker and so on all went out at a young age and they have all been quoted saying how much it benefited them both at the time and in the long run. now i don't want this to sound like i think loans are perfect as i'm well aware that they can be just as hit and miss as any other approach but i would wager that the loan route would see a greater return than the current method.

tbh and i know this is going to be controversial but i would rather pochettino just had nothing to do with the academy. he's not at espanyol now, he doesn't need to bring players through nor does he have to keep up some kind of façade. i would rather we brought back a tim sherwood-like figure(but not tim obviously) to oversee the academy and build connections with other clubs. this is another thing that bugs me about pochettino, this insistence that our players will pick up bad habits under different coaches. of course you don't want to send them to the likes of tony pulis but there are plenty of good coaches out there and sometimes listening to and learning from someone else can be a good thing. it also makes no sense as if we applied that logic to transfers then surely we'd never actually buy anyone.

once a player has been out on loan and built up a profile worthy of 1st team consideration then poch can bring them back in but i don't think he should have the level of control over the academy that he currently does.

lastly, on sissoko, i could be misremembering but wasn't that more down to luck than trust? i seem to recall him being on the verge of being sold to turkey or somewhere like that before we had to bring him back into the fold due to injuries.

 

[NorthernYido]

of course they're going to talk him up, it's in their best interest to do so and they're hardly going to say something negative about their own manager.

poch says a lot of good things but his approach is unrealistic, to take a youth player out of playing football at any level for several years and then expect them to then jump in at some point and perform to the same level as established high quality 1st teamers(which is essentially what you are saying here when you say earning their trust) just isn't going to happen, or at least not very often - case in point being that winks is the only to come through it in poch's six years at the club. it is my belief that no amount of training or "trust" is sufficient enough replacement for missing years of matches, especially in those critical development ages between 17-21.

this idealistic belief from pochettino has funnelled down to the rest of the academy as well, since he's been in charge the youngest player to go out on loan was edwards at 19 and even then that was under a different set of circumstances than normal. under previous regimes we regularly had 18 year olds and even a few at 17 go out on loan, the likes of kane/mason/townsend/carroll/caulker and so on all went out at a young age and they have all been quoted saying how much it benefited them both at the time and in the long run. now i don't want this to sound like i think loans are perfect as i'm well aware that they can be just as hit and miss as any other approach but i would wager that the loan route would see a greater return than the current method.

tbh and i know this is going to be controversial but i would rather pochettino just had nothing to do with the academy. he's not at espanyol now, he doesn't need to bring players through nor does he have to keep up some kind of façade. i would rather we brought back a tim sherwood-like figure(but not tim obviously) to oversee the academy and build connections with other clubs. this is another thing that bugs me about pochettino, this insistence that our players will pick up bad habits under different coaches. of course you don't want to send them to the likes of tony pulis but there are plenty of good coaches out there and sometimes listening to and learning from someone else can be a good thing. it also makes no sense as if we applied that logic to transfers then surely we'd never actually buy anyone.

once a player has been out on loan and built up a profile worthy of 1st team consideration then poch can bring them back in but i don't think he should have the current level of control over the academy that he currently does.

lastly, on sissoko, i could be misremembering but wasn't that more down to luck than trust? i seem to recall him being on the verge of being sold to turkey or somewhere like that before we had to bring him back into the fold due to injuries.

I like this thread, there's really good discussion and info on here. On this topic (youngsters getting a chance) there's some great points on both sides of the debate. But personally the whole Skipp behind Wanyama thing for the last couple of games really narcs me. There's no way after the pre-season that Skipp has had, that he should be behind Wanyama. I just dont think it can do anything positive for the lads confidence or progression either.
I tend to agree with your opinion with regards to poch's approach, I think he's overly cautious and stubborn to the point where it's possibly holding young players back at crucial times of their careers.

 

[Insomnia]

I like this thread, there's really good discussion and info on here. On this topic (youngsters getting a chance) there's some great points on both sides of the debate. But personally the whole Skipp behind Wanyama thing for the last couple of games really narcs me. There's no way after the pre-season that Skipp has had, that he should be behind Wanyama. I just dont think it can do anything positive for the lads confidence or progression either.
I tend to agree with your opinion with regards to poch's approach, I think he's overly cautious and stubborn to the point where it's possibly holding young players back at crucial times of their careers.

I completely agree with this. I don't understand how we can have a player on the bench who we wanted to sell this summer , in the place of an academy player who is the future of this team, just turned 19 & Spurs through and through. Really puzzles me why Poch would do that. Hopefully Celtic come in for Victor in January & we get to see Skippy grow into the player we all hope he's going to be.

 

[austinfh]

absolutely buzzing come on troyyyy

 

[Lighty64]

yep hope he has a great game tonight, along with Tanganga

 

[tototoner]

Good luxk tonight Troy

 

[muppetman]

Hope he does well but let's not get on his back if it's a struggle. No idea if Colchester will play with old fashioned CB's who'll kick him up and down but this might be a bit different than what he is used to.

 

[Dougal]

 

[dbspurs]

Felt a bit sorry for him tonight.

When you start with a midfield of Wanyama, Dier and Skipp chances are you wont be getting many goal scoring opportunities.

 

[mill]

Felt a bit sorry for him tonight.

When you start with a midfield of Wanyama, Dier and Skipp chances are you wont be getting many goal scoring opportunities.

Dier was in defence but yeah fuck all creativity in that team

 

[VanZan]

And like someone else posted when Mr Creativity came on Poch took Parrott off!!