Time for Enic to go?

[lukadownthelane]

Do you think the whole culture of the club needs to change?

The constant injuries, selling of our best players and uncertainty over the stadium suggests things are not right from top to bottom.

Disorganisation of set pieces, lack of intelligent play and arrogant, lazy attitudes suggests the players are not good enough as a group be it mentally or as footballers.

Personally I am fed up with it. Lawrenson's "Tottenham always let you down" comment is beginning to look true. I fear nothing will change until Enic and Levy have gone.

What do you think? If you agree what are our options as supporters?

 

[whitelightwhiteheat]

Does Joe Lewis/Daniel Levy injure our players?

Are they on the training ground teaching our players set pieces?

If yes - then yeah, they need to go.

If no, then maybe they just need to find us a good manager and get shot of Tim Sherwood ASAP.

 

[felmani26]

What's the credible alternative?

 

[Yid1987]

Agree. The injuries we suffer are ridiculous. The vast majority are sustained in training too which is even more worrying. We don't apply sport science/strength and conditioning principles to our training like other clubs do - Liverpool, Everton, City, Chelsea. These clubs measure and carefully plan intensity, load, frequency, duration etc of each session and tailor their approach to suit each individual player to ensure each player reaches his optimal threshold leading up to each game. This helps players peak for games.

I found Sherwood's post match comments interesting, especially about character and leaders. For me, this starts at the top of the club and it us evidently lacking at Spurs throughout the club. Therefore emphasising the need for a change as changes in approach (and managers) under ENIC haven't worked. As a football club we are judged by our performances on the pitch and not bank accounts. Whilst Levy dies a brilliant job with getting top price for our players when selling, he has wasted so much money buying players in his time and this has usually ended with managers being sacked and used as the scapegoat. There's one common denominator at Spurs and that's Levy and the board. They have made the decisions to sack managers and continuously re-build making us a less attractive option to managers with each passing season. They have also spent huge amounts on players who have never lived up to their expectation for one reason or another, and have sold our best players with each passing season. We are falling further and further behind the teams we challenged last year and unless the clubs approach and leadership changes we will never be successful as a club, will always be rebuilding and will only ever be a stepping stone for players.

 

[easley91]

The trouble is the modern day football mentality of wanting success overnight. Until Levy realizes that we're not going to turn into a premier league challenging side in one or two seasons, no manager will get the time to do just that. It's going to take time, time which Levy obviously does not want to give. He wants success gained in as less time as possible.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

What's the credible alternative?

I am totally against the rich teams ruining football and all the Oil Money stuff

but saying that I am pretty sure that if it happened my views would change- yes, I am a bit of a clueless and naive retard in that sense.


A part of me hopes there is someone in Dubai or Saudi Arabia thinking about taking over the club.

 

[Mr Pink]

What's the credible alternative?

Several beers!

 

[crokey]

Exactly which type of owner would you rather have?

Abramovich? The Sheikh? Henry? Kroenke? So the owners with more money?
Kenwright? Lerner? Gold? Sullivan? So the owners of clubs below us in the league?

Vincent Tan? Carson Yeung? Venkys?

We got it good. We could have it better, but we could have it fucking worse.

 

[scat1620]

What's the credible alternative?

I always think that's a bit of an unfair question when it comes to Owners. If we wanted a new left-back (for example) then there is a large market of players currently playing left-back across the world whose current form and previous history would give us a reasonable idea of whether they would improve our left-back position or not. We can make a judgement call based on a known market of people currently doing the job.

However, potential new owners could come from anywhere at all, and in most cases they won't currently be running a football club. Therefore we are precluded from the possibility having sufficient directly comparable information to make a judgement on whether they would be an improvement to our situation or not. It's not like the market for players where there is a known and finite pool which we can make easy comparisons between, and so IMO it's disingenuous to demand people name actual alternatives when considering whether new owners would improve us or not.

I totally agree that if we did change owners we'd be taking a risk and sometimes it's a case of "better the devil you know": we could easily end up with worse - a Vincent Tan for example. But that's not to say we couldn't do better either. Like having a new neighbour move in next to you, it's a case of just not knowing what they're like until they've arrived.

Personally, I think we've reached a glass ceiling under ENIC's ownership now (as I've said before in several threads) so I'd be tempted to welcome a change of owners just to roll that dice and see if we could do better. Guess it all depends on whether people are happy to take the gamble or not. I think I am ready at this point, but I can see why not everybody would.

 

[Vulcan10]

In theory our current set up is ideal, billionaire owner rumoured spurs fan I believe & shrewd businessman pulling the strings.

Not sure why it has to go so badly wrong. Screening calls from Madrid & Jonathan Barnett would have helped lol.

I'm not sure debating new owners will help as it's not up to us, a lot of us might now take a gamble on a new owner but if they don't want to sell up this is a mute point. It is probably time however for some fan pressure to be applied as they've had too easy a ride so far. In recent times (obviously the initial impact was good) the keeping of Modric that extra year & the always fun but ultimately false hope of "levy time" that's been created (this was a one off) has created a shield of protection from any responsibility over the backwards steps that have been taken the past couple of seasons.
The board need to know we are unhappy, frustrated and bored. We want more football decisions & less bargain bucket squad players.
For example for all the talk of problems in his marriage I said at the time and still think the club were happy to sell vdv as they thought 10million for an ageing player with fitness issues was a good deal, vdv has hinted at as much. As a fan, when we finally get a player in who is world class and offers flair, passion & entertainment I want us to fight tooth & nail to have him see out his career here, not worry about making a profit where we can. Make the profit on others/sell some squad players etc not our stars. We did the same with teddy & ginola (granted this was Sugar not Levy). Apart from other behind the scene issues that we don't know about, that to me is the biggest frustration with the current board, the Dempsey type deals and paying the likes of siggy top top wages but missing out on/not keeping the ones that are really worth it (oh what could have been joao moutinho).

Are they as desperate as us to win trophies or are they looking to make profits etc? I used to think so, I really have no idea what's going on anymore.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

The way i see modern football, there are three types of owner;

- The rich sugar daddy owner who plunges dozens of millions into the club from day one and has little concern with actually turning a profit. No concern with long term plans, wants success instantly and has the money to buy it.
- The spirited fan/group of fans/investors who buy the club to hopefully make money, but certainly not to lose too much, so very little investment, as little spending as possible, low wages & bargain buys.
- The balanced owner who is happy to put money in, but ultimately wants the club to support itself. Large investments but only in areas that will benefit the club in the long term.

Each of these turn up in the league with varying degrees of success. The first we can see succeeding at Chelsea & Citeh, but not so well at United. The second at teams like Palace & Swansea and the third at clubs like Spurs & Everton.

The only thing is, you don't get to choose your clubs owner - in the business world, if someone comes in with enough money then they can buy any club they like. It really doesn't matter what a fans opinion of the owner is either, as we've seen with Vincent Tan & Mike Ashley, we have no say whatsoever in who pays the wages.

As usual, some of our fans are sure that the grass must be greener in another field, but say ENIC/Lewis did decide to sell up tomorrow, we could just as easily end up with a conglomerate of local businessmen who, whilst charming and in the spirit of the game, would only be able to invest a fraction of the money we currently have access to and would almost certainly require wages to be lowered etc. which will reduce our drawing power massively and certainly put some brakes on our new stadium plans.

Personally, i am quite happy with our chairman and owners - they've not dragged their heels with regards to investing in a new training facility (and a fine facility it is), they put up what i consider to be a very fair amount of money in the last few years, they identified the absolute must of a bigger stadium and have done tons and tons of work to make that happen.

The only concern i have is our tendency to let our best players go but in most of them cases it's not like we had a choice and there's little point in keeping a player who genuinely wants to go somewhere else (Bale, Modric, Berbatov), and considering we have made an exceptional amount of money on each of them deals too... frankly, if the board had turned any of them offers down i would've called them fools, and besides, the players can always choose to not sign and stick around if they want to.

tldr; ENIC are doing rather well, imo.

 

[absolute bobbins]

Do you think the whole culture of the club needs to change?

The constant injuries, selling of our best players and uncertainty over the stadium suggests things are not right from top to bottom.

Disorganisation of set pieces, lack of intelligent play and arrogant, lazy attitudes suggests the players are not good enough as a group be it mentally or as footballers.

Personally I am fed up with it. Lawrenson's "Tottenham always let you down" comment is beginning to look true. I fear nothing will change until Enic and Levy have gone.

What do you think? If you agree what are our options as supporters?

ENIC is not responsible for the attitudes of the players, Levy and the board are responsible for making sure the club is here for another 100 years and sometimes that means making tough decisions that won't be popular with the common man but he's not here to be liked, he's here to do his best by the club.
The biggest stick people beat ENIC with is selling players, we do not have limitless funds and we can't afford assets deliberately damaging their market value.
There are a lot who forget how burnt we were by Judas, Levy will naturally fret over that happening again or worse still a player going on strike to force a move. There was a genuine chance of that happening with Bale, ask Guillem Balague.

An injuries has nothing to do with the clubs ownership, a player can become injured at any time and it's not like our medical team are running about with a magic sponge.

There is also no uncertainty over the stadium, it's coming. We're currently waiting on a Compulsory Purchase Order to force the sale of Archway Sheet Metal from Secretary of State for Local Government Eric Pickles MP. It was due in February but he was a little bit busy with that small spot of flooding we had, you might have heard about it?

Third Point is all Tim baby, in fact he can take some responsibility for the injuries too. He gave them a free pass at his presser and they used it today.

Options as a supporter are to stop bitching, stop going or start saving...£450,000,000 is a drunken guesstimate of what ENIC will want and they would expect you to match their spending commitments too. They'll will probably be the best part of another £400,000,000 for the stadium before you look at stuff like paying wages.

 

[absolute bobbins]

Agree. The injuries we suffer are ridiculous. The vast majority are sustained in training too which is even more worrying. We don't apply sport science/strength and conditioning principles to our training like other clubs do - Liverpool, Everton, City, Chelsea. These clubs measure and carefully plan intensity, load, frequency, duration etc of each session and tailor their approach to suit each individual player to ensure each player reaches his optimal threshold leading up to each game. This helps players peak for games.

Are you really telling me that Daniel Levy would allow the entire sport science department in their brand new offices to sit around doing nothing all day?

 

[SpursManChris]

What do you think?

I think you've just SPAMMED Spurs Chat, that's what I think. You blamed ENIC for constant injuries, the disorganisation of set pieces, lack of intelligent play and arrogant and lazy attitudes. You want to explain how you can blame them for all that?

 

[Spurger King]

ENIC/Levy/Lewis have already given the club an incredible training ground that will benefit the team for years. If they can add a new stadium, I'll consider them to be one of the greatest owners we could have hoped for.

Unfortunately in the current climate if we ever want to be anything more than also-rans, we'll need a free-spending sugar daddy. I love Spurs with all my heart, and will support them passionately through thick and thin (even if I moan about them on forums), but as long as ENIC are in charge, we'll only be making up the numbers, with occasional high points. That's just the reality of the situation.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to see us compete for trophies, and to become one of the big boys - I can't imagine any fan of any club would want the opposite. At the same time, if we started spending Oil Money FC cash that success would become meaningless pretty quickly (to me, at least).

What I'd really love is to see something approaching a level playing field. Cap wages across Europe. Cap the amount of money clubs can spend during transfer windows. It would make things much more interesting if every club could only spend a maximum of £30m a season on players. It would change the valuation of players, and would force clubs to make choices about whether they should splash all of their cash on one player, or spread it out on several cheaper players. It would also mean that as clubs progressed up the divisions, they would naturally come closer to that level of spending strength through TV cash etc.

 

[liam17oi]

I believe everything Levy has done he's done with the best interests of the club in mind. Yes he's made mistakes, yes he hasn't bought when we should have bought, and yes sometimes he may be a bit trigger happy.

But:

Since Enic have taken over we have grown as a club from mid-table mediocrity to Champions League contenders. We have also grown as a business.

Since Enic have taken over we have built a new state-of-the-art training ground, which, I am led to believe, is the envy of Europe. Levy is also trying to tie up funding for the new stadium. And this hopefully shouldn't be far away.

Since Enic have come in we have completely revamped the academy and youth of our club and are now seeing the benefits of that.

We are, given our lack of success and general income, punching well above our weight. I would say our being up challenging for fourth is down to Levy's steady hand when it comes to controlling this mad ship.

I like Levy. He makes mistakes. Though he does everything for our club.

The day we sack Enic off and get some rich sugar daddy is the day I sack Tottenham off.

 

[Bobbins]

Anyone wanting oil Arab/Russian criminal owners - that ship has sailed. With FFP no-one will be able to come in spunk hundreds of millions in a couple of transfer windows again.

City and Chelsea voted for it precisely because they've already done it and certainly don't want another club coming up and joining the party.

 

[yankspurs]

Give me a fucking owner thats willing to spend his fucking money. Im sick and tired of penny pinching billionaires.

*Including ones who refuse to pay taxes so he moves to the Americas and lives on a yacht.

 

[yankspurs]

Anyone wanting oil Arab/Russian criminal owners - that ship has sailed. With FFP no-one will be able to come in spunk hundreds of millions in a couple of transfer windows again.

City and Chelsea voted for it precisely because they've already done it and certainly don't want another club coming up and joining the party.

Dont confuse City with the Russian oligarch and the cheating ****s at Stamford Bridge.

 

[double0]

The board has to look throughly at recruitment that includings timing and especially forward thinking. I suppose the majority of our supporters realise we are fighting against heavy weight clubs in terms of financial clout. The decisions Levy has made during this tender would suggest overall we have punched our weight finishing on average 5th and playing European football. The talk of CL being the smoke screen, as a supporter I can expect that with the upgrades to our development squads talk of studium build we can see progressive steps going forward behind the scenes. However this leauge imo with all its wealthy owners abd overrated players are there for the taking-what is so annoying even though we have movements in the business plan the bread and butter football plan is a complete mess yet were still treading water...in a funny way our goal deficit being a big fat 0 says it all.
So we bring it back to Levy! where is he going wrong? One might argue and say he is doing well considering what he took over a club way below standard with an average position of 13. On the flip side fine his shorted our short coming and broke even so what now how do we gain muscle? You have to believe in your methods we've had DoF Headcoach Manager Interims all on short term stints I honestly believe Levy has to stick. I thought he would with AVB now it's time to standby Sherwood long term ...wishful thinking because we all know what's going to happen next.