The vent thread

[wadewill]

Poch does not need to go. We cannot go on as we have.

The problem is not the managers, all of them, there is one constant here over the past few years... it certainly isnt the managers/coaches

 

[dav3j]

Fuck. Well, I'm at the stage where I'm almost completely apathetic to the fortunes of this club, but thankfully this thread has got me riled up again. Last time I just thought "fuck it, I'm out" was after we lost the last of our 8 games (2 points) against Stoke under Ramos. Even under AVB I maintained some hope and thought we weren't in too bad a shape.

Poch's attitude in interviews worries me. He can't decide whether we have an attitude problem - "Spurs attitude not weak" following Asteras 2-1 game, "Spurs mentality needs to change" (I'm paraphrasing) after this game. He looks broken, clueless and out of his depth. Still doesn't know our best side. Makes the wrong guy captain and continues to give him game time, when, let's be honest, most of us knew last season he was past his best. Doesn't implement the style of play that got him the job in the first place.

Lloris is pretty much the only player that deserves his place in the side this season, and should be our captain. I can only hope he's so settled here he's willing to stay, unfortunately he's getting that "he's too good for us" vibe a la Berba, Modric and Bale, and deserves better.

Kaboul has had enough slating here already, but he's basically not up to it, shouldn't be our first choice defender and couldn't marshal a defence if his life depended on it. Vertonghen would do well with a decent leader alongside him. Fazio I think has had his share of cockups, but I think given time could be very good for us. He was captain for Sevilla after all, would communicate well with Poch, and from where I sat at the Etihad, while Kaboul was running around aimlessly getting torn to shreds, Fazio was the only one trying to organise our defence and was having to shout at Kaboul, telling him what to do. I really want to see Davies given game time in the PL and can't see why he doesn't get a fair crack ahead of the error-prone Rose. Walker can't come back from injury quick enough.

Our midfield completely lacks shape. Mason's doing a great job of being our box-to-box at the minute, but Capoue is uninspiring and a fit Sandro would have been far better. We need a real nasty **** in the middle of the park, someone Parker or Sandro-esque. I'd also bring Chadli, suprisingly one of our best players this season, into the middle rather than out wide, and put him in behind a striker. Which striker, I really just don't know. Eriksen's been a disappointment this season, which I can only assume is down to him being played incorrectly or not being trained well enough. Playing as the tip of a midfield 3 in 4-3-3 is clearly his best position, but one I can't see us properly implementing any time soon. Our wingers are just crap (Chadli excepted) and I would happily sack the lot of them off.

Ade has got lazy, Soldado is Soldado, and Kane isn't the answer in the PL.

How the hell do we fix all this? We need a manager and coaching squad with big bollocks, a leader in defence, a decent defensive midfielder, a striker or two who can consistently score, and some wingers who can actually create some chances. Is that going to happen? Doubt it...

 

[SlunkSoma]

Fuck. Well, I'm at the stage where I'm almost completely apathetic to the fortunes of this club, but thankfully this thread has got me riled up again. Last time I just thought "fuck it, I'm out" was after we lost the last of our 8 games (2 points) against Stoke under Ramos. Even under AVB I maintained some hope and thought we weren't in too bad a shape.

Poch's attitude in interviews worries me. He can't decide whether we have an attitude problem - "Spurs attitude not weak" following Asteras 2-1 game, "Spurs mentality needs to change" (I'm paraphrasing) after this game. He looks broken, clueless and out of his depth. Still doesn't know our best side. Makes the wrong guy captain and continues to give him game time, when, let's be honest, most of us knew last season he was past his best. Doesn't implement the style of play that got him the job in the first place.

Lloris is pretty much the only player that deserves his place in the side this season, and should be our captain. I can only hope he's so settled here he's willing to stay, unfortunately he's getting that "he's too good for us" vibe a la Berba, Modric and Bale, and deserves better.

Kaboul has had enough slating here already, but he's basically not up to it, shouldn't be our first choice defender and couldn't marshal a defence if his life depended on it. Vertonghen would do well with a decent leader alongside him. Fazio I think has had his share of cockups, but I think given time could be very good for us. He was captain for Sevilla after all, would communicate well with Poch, and from where I sat at the Etihad, while Kaboul was running around aimlessly getting torn to shreds, Fazio was the only one trying to organise our defence and was having to shout at Kaboul, telling him what to do. I really want to see Davies given game time in the PL and can't see why he doesn't get a fair crack ahead of the error-prone Rose. Walker can't come back from injury quick enough.

Our midfield completely lacks shape. Mason's doing a great job of being our box-to-box at the minute, but Capoue is uninspiring and a fit Sandro would have been far better. We need a real nasty **** in the middle of the park, someone Parker or Sandro-esque. I'd also bring Chadli, suprisingly one of our best players this season, into the middle rather than out wide, and put him in behind a striker. Which striker, I really just don't know. Eriksen's been a disappointment this season, which I can only assume is down to him being played incorrectly or not being trained well enough. Playing as the tip of a midfield 3 in 4-3-3 is clearly his best position, but one I can't see us properly implementing any time soon. Our wingers are just crap (Chadli excepted) and I would happily sack the lot of them off.

Ade has got lazy, Soldado is Soldado, and Kane isn't the answer in the PL.

How the hell do we fix all this? We need a manager and coaching squad with big bollocks, a leader in defence, a decent defensive midfielder, a striker or two who can consistently score, and some wingers who can actually create some chances. Is that going to happen? Doubt it...

I think what Poch is trying to do is change the mindset of the players, so they realise the responsibility they have. He left it to them to choose a captain - and rightly so. They have the power to change it on the pitch, and any adversity they face now ironically will help him achieve his aim of steeling them against future adversity by making them accountable. If they sink, then they haven't the right attitude. This season really is transitional, not just finishing 6th instead of 5th. The work Poch is doing I believe is to rid this club of failure being acceptable.

 

[SteveH]

When I was an athlete, in my younger days, we would have seriously hard training periods, they could be mental. And I enjoyed it. However, the extra hard periods were never mixed with the periods in which we had to perform in competitions. Peaking the form often went hand in hand with planning easier training sessions. So...

There is something to this - Poch is a is a disciple of Marcelo Bielsa who has caused problems with a too much high intensity training at a few clubs, Bilbao was one of the clubs, they demolished Man U at home in the EL but it did not last - some big players were sold and he left.

 

[dav3j]

I think what Poch is trying to do is change the mindset of the players, so they realise the responsibility they have. He left it to them to choose a captain - and rightly so. They have the power to change it on the pitch, and any adversity they face now ironically will help him achieve his aim of steeling them against future adversity by making them accountable. If they sink, then they haven't the right attitude. This season really is transitional, not just finishing 6th instead of 5th. The work Poch is doing I believe is to rid this club of failure being acceptable.

I think the manager (head coach, whatever) needs more guts than that. He should be there to tell the side what to do, and to hell with them if they don't agree. Just because they're all mates with Kaboul and want him as their captain doesn't mean he should be, especially when he's barely deserving of being on the pitch. It's all very well and good having a (yet another) "transitional season" and letting the players learn from their mistakes, but this is the Premier League. On current form we're honestly flirting with relgation. We've won 8 points since August, that's just not good enough and we can't let it slide any longer.

 

[SlunkSoma]

I think the manager (head coach, whatever) needs more guts than that. He should be there to tell the side what to do, and to hell with them if they don't agree. Just because they're all mates with Kaboul and want him as their captain doesn't mean he should be, especially when he's barely deserving of being on the pitch. It's all very well and good having a (yet another) "transitional season" and letting the players learn from their mistakes, but this is the Premier League. On current form we're honestly flirting with relgation. We've won 8 points since August, that's just not good enough and we can't let it slide any longer.

I think this approach does take balls, he is putting his on the line by trying to get the players to realise what they need. In two years time if he succeeds I wouldn't be surprised to see the lines of Eriksen and Lamela thanking him for their development.

 

[SteveH]

Poch does not need to go. We cannot go on as we have.

The problem is not the managers, all of them, there is one constant here over the past few years... it certainly isnt the managers/coaches

Sadly Poch and AVB are/have been the problem. Since Harry they have been the constant. The owners have IMHO tried the young up and coming manager route and it does not work.

All this rubbish about changing the players mentality is buncombe - winning changes mentalities not constantly farting around with formation the players can't handle e.g. high defensive lines and the like.

We are not going to buy or sell our way out of this........

 

[mrlilywhite]

Not sure if this has been posted, but a good read nonetheless

http://theprolounge.com/the-many-crimes-of-enic-and-daniel-levy

 

[SteveH]

I think this approach does take balls, he is putting his on the line by trying to get the players to realise what they need. In two years time if he succeeds I wouldn't be surprised to see the lines of Eriksen and Lamela thanking him for their development.

Eriksen is going backwards he looks a shadow of the player he was even last month.
They are at sixes and sevens on the pitch. Poch bless him looks to be totally out of his depth.

I'm not against Pochettino, but definitely for Spurs. Ramos was very similar and I liked him also but it did not work for him at Spurs and that really shocked me at the time, it is happening again.

 

[SteveH]

Not sure if this has been posted, but a good read nonetheless

http://theprolounge.com/the-many-crimes-of-enic-and-daniel-levy

Its all been said it old regurgitated figures to fit a point of view.

We are not going to sell and spend our way out of this current problem.
We need the owners to stop getting the wrong managers, "bright young things" do not work. We need experienced managers who have the ability to work with the players that are at a club.
We are destroying perfectly good players and have little money to replace them with.

 

[jurgen]

Come out to the Spurs, we'll get together, have a few laughs...

 

[Mr Pink]

Not sure if this has been posted, but a good read nonetheless

http://theprolounge.com/the-many-crimes-of-enic-and-daniel-levy

Posted similar in the what's the real problem thread....

Its the structure within, no doubt about it.

 

[Mr Pink]

Not sure if this has been posted, but a good read nonetheless

http://theprolounge.com/the-many-crimes-of-enic-and-daniel-levy

For me any manager is destined to come into Spurs and struggle under the present structure. In some sort of capacity, be it our strategies for purchasing players, in house politics behind the scenes - too many cooks etc, or just the culture within the Club. No matter, a manager will come in, and even do well to a point or for a certain length of time before one of the above gets the better of him.

I honestly believe the way we are set up is now the problem, and we're regressing under this model. Its served us well to a point and we've struck gold a few times but there's too much emphasis now on trying to sign the next biggest thing, in terms of resale, and its far outweighing the needs of the team.

I just get the feeling that we're collecting players with a view to selling on the ones that really multiply in value whilst trying to tread water with the rest, and even worse Levy charging his managers with unrealistic aims given our resources compared to our competitors.

I understand we have our place in the food chain and we have to be smart in the transfer market in an attempt to bridge the gap with those above us and all that jazz, but there's something incredibly hollow about the Club right now. You hear many fans saying they can't relate with any of the players and I understand that. Where are they? No King anymore, no Dawson...not even a Parker/fit Sandro type that any fan would appreciate the commitment of. Not even a special connection with the more gifted types...Berbatov, Modric, VDV, Bale etc. Nada.

There's no real core to this group of players, no backbone or spine to the team. Its just a collection of semi talented individuals, in some cases, slung together and most of them don't understand what it takes to be successful in this League - and the ones that do, like Lennon and Kaboul etc are past their best.

The more we change manager the more disruption we're going to see, and the more the revolving door will be in motion with players coming and going. Some of these players need to be offloaded, there's no doubt about that though.

We're powder puff at the moment, all over the pitch and we have a manager who is struggling.

For the love of God, we need to give the manager the backing he needs. Any manager, be it Pochettino or whoever, hopefully Pochettino IMO.

Pochettino was probably given the job because he was the most receptive to getting the best out of what already was here. Well that doesn't look good at the moment. But its like a snowball effect, one manager's premise is inheriting and being charged with the mess that's been left from before.

All I know is that I would give the manager a healthy degree of control over team affairs. And that doesn't mean being irresponsible and letting them do this and that, and then spending irresponsibly because of it or anything like that. Just a healthy degree of control over all things concerning the team and shaping it to his liking. Not giving him the next carlos kick the ball because Baldini has said he'll go for as much as Bale in three years.

That's the fucking problem for me. We've no identity whatsoever.

Levy has got a lot right in the transfer market and we have gained from that, no doubt about it. But its time to restore some balance to 'team needs'. There's being clever, and there's being too fucking clever IMO.

 

[cliff jones]

The main problem with Poch is he keeps picking the wrong spine of the team. Kaboul, Capoue and Adebayor are all stale, and don't connect with anyone else in the team. All need to be booted.

Jan's attitude might be questionable and he might sometimes get drawn under the flight of crosses but he'd never get caught ten yards in front of his partner after a poor clearance. He can judge a tackle and on the ball there's no better in the league. I'd persist with Fazio as his partner since he's marginally less of a liability than Chiriches, who also needs to be punted in January.

Davies deserves his chance now and hopefully Walker's pace will be back soon. In the meantime we have to use Dier again.

Stam can hopefully come in and hold his position in front of the CHs and if necessary eat a yellow for bringing down a Bojan in full flight a la yesterday. As opposed to Poue who's typically in the wrong place at the wrong time, sold himself pathetically when Bojan broke.

Mason and Chadli deserve their shirts. Then its two from Lamela, Eriksen, Soldado and Kane. Soldado is clever and deserves a run in the 10 role IMO.

Such a team should comfortably finish top half, which is the best we can hope for at this stage.

Persist with the three liabilities and it could become a lot worse.

 

[jordanshl]

It's simple as this....

Spurs seem to be the only club where the chairman buys the players and not the manager. As a result we have a hodge podge of bargain basement misfits and an ill-conceived Bale splurge....

Managers ask for specific players for a reason, you can't just buy a completely different player because the alternative is cheaper!

Levy is 90% blame for this mess, we are probably partly to blame for making the most toxic atmosphere in WHL for 20 years and then we can apportion the remainder through some of the players

 

[WalkerboyUK]

Over the last few weeks my father-in-law has been goading me, telling me that he's more than happy for me to become a Cambridge United fan. I think he believes I am the reason my wife doesn't go with him and the kids to their home games.
This morning he text to say he's buying me a Cambridge shirt for Xmas.....

It's actually very tempting, but I've supported this club through thick and thin for 27 years.
Besides which, league 2 football is worse than watching us play badly!

 

[sebcole]

Downward spiral here we come.

I cant see Poch dominating the dressing room, I think this has been another false dawn indeed.

 

[KingKay]

Levy is 90% blame for this mess, we are probably partly to blame for making the most toxic atmosphere in WHL for 20 years and then we can apportion the remainder through some of the players

Agree with the three contributing factors but I make it:

50% Levy
25% Players
25% Fans

 

[shelfboy68]

For me any manager is destined to come into Spurs and struggle under the present structure. In some sort of capacity, be it our strategies for purchasing players, in house politics behind the scenes - too many cooks etc, or just the culture within the Club. No matter, a manager will come in, and even do well to a point or for a certain length of time before one of the above gets the better of him.

I honestly believe the way we are set up is now the problem, and we're regressing under this model. Its served us well to a point and we've struck gold a few times but there's too much emphasis now on trying to sign the next biggest thing, in terms of resale, and its far outweighing the needs of the team.

I just get the feeling that we're collecting players with a view to selling on the ones that really multiply in value whilst trying to tread water with the rest, and even worse Levy charging his managers with unrealistic aims given our resources compared to our competitors.

I understand we have our place in the food chain and we have to be smart in the transfer market in an attempt to bridge the gap with those above us and all that jazz, but there's something incredibly hollow about the Club right now. You hear many fans saying they can't relate with any of the players and I understand that. Where are they? No King anymore, no Dawson...not even a Parker/fit Sandro type that any fan would appreciate the commitment of. Not even a special connection with the more gifted types...Berbatov, Modric, VDV, Bale etc. Nada.

There's no real core to this group of players, no backbone or spine to the team. Its just a collection of semi talented individuals, in some cases, slung together and most of them don't understand what it takes to be successful in this League - and the ones that do, like Lennon and Kaboul etc are past their best.

The more we change manager the more disruption we're going to see, and the more the revolving door will be in motion with players coming and going. Some of these players need to be offloaded, there's no doubt about that though.

We're powder puff at the moment, all over the pitch and we have a manager who is struggling.

For the love of God, we need to give the manager the backing he needs. Any manager, be it Pochettino or whoever, hopefully Pochettino IMO.

Pochettino was probably given the job because he was the most receptive to getting the best out of what already was here. Well that doesn't look good at the moment. But its like a snowball effect, one manager's premise is inheriting and being charged with the mess that's been left from before.

All I know is that I would give the manager a healthy degree of control over team affairs. And that doesn't mean being irresponsible and letting them do this and that, and then spending irresponsibly because of it or anything like that. Just a healthy degree of control over all things concerning the team and shaping it to his liking. Not giving him the next carlos kick the ball because Baldini has said he'll go for as much as Bale in three years.

That's the fucking problem for me. We've no identity whatsoever.

Levy has got a lot right in the transfer market and we have gained from that, no doubt about it. But its time to restore some balance to 'team needs'. There's being clever, and there's being too fucking clever IMO.

Well thought out mate the only thing i would say is that Levy hasnt got a lot right in the transfer window for a while now and it might well be that they are trying to be too clever.
This situation must be sorted quickly or i feel We could be in for some trouble this season and thats no good for the long term situation at the club.

 

[Lo Amo Speroni]

Will you be happy next year when he is continuing to implement his philosophy in the Championship? We thought we were going to be playing a high intensity pressing game...what we have seen so far has been nothing of the sort. If he wants to drop Vertoghen and play Fazio, as well as playing Rose ahead of Davies then something is very wrong at the club. All the players that have been quietly frozen out, particularly Lennon and Paulinho must be laughing themselves silly at this joker. The club is rotten to the core and all the fans know it.

I'm sorry, I don't get chance to see the players train so I will have to accept what you're saying regarding Vertonghan and Davies.
Or on the other hand I could decide that perhaps it is time to give a manager the time to put together a winning team rather than think I know best.