The Spurs Youth Thread – 2016/2017

[WindyCOYS]

Amos involvement continues to baffle me. He's a completely average U23 player, was a completely average U18 player. I genuinely hope Poch has seen something real in him and he turns out to be a player but for the life of me I can't see it.

I'm a fan and have been since I first saw him at 15 - tenacious, tight technically, fit, mobile/agile, and a good head on his shoulders.

 

[Spurzinho]

I'm a fan and have been since I first saw him at 15 - tenacious, tight technically, fit, mobile/agile, and a good head on his shoulders.

I was a fan when he was 15, I've said this before. He was a really stand out midfielder as a schoolboy. The problem is that I have watched as his peers have caught up and overtaken him. He's not great defensively, either in terms of his positioning and anticipation, he doesn't have the power and pace of a Winks or Onomah to move about the pitch, his passing is nothing to write home about. He's just...average and not first team average, development squad average.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I'm a fan and have been since I first saw him at 15 - tenacious, tight technically, fit, mobile/agile, and a good head on his shoulders.

I know what you mean to a degree Windy, I felt the same way about Lesniak, I think it's really hard for players like this to stand out sometimes, they are functionaries, the hod carriers, the janitors, the dustmen, they make it possible for the Onomah's and Alli's to shine, but rarely get to see the sunshine themselves, their job in a way is almost not to stand out.

I don't have a rock solid opinion on Amos despite seeing lots of him. I liked what I saw the first few times I saw him, for the same reasons you list, tenacious, technically decent, busy. But the last couple of years it's been really hard to gauge his progress and abilities as he's been played in other positions and in really mish mash and tactically poor development teams (like the U21/23's).

 

[Sweech]

I know what you mean to a degree Windy, I felt the same way about Lesniak, I think it's really hard for players like this to stand out sometimes, they are functionaries, the hod carriers, the janitors, the dustmen, they make it possible for the Onomah's and Alli's to shine, but rarely get to see the sunshine themselves, their job in a way is almost not to stand out.

I don't have a rock solid opinion on Amos despite seeing lots of him. I liked what I saw the first few times I saw him, for the same reasons you list, tenacious, technically decent, busy. But the last couple of years it's been really hard to gauge his progress and abilities as he's been played in other positions and in really mish mash and tactically poor development teams (like the U21/23's).

The problem for me is those functional players stop being functional at higher levels - the game passes them by. When you look at the PL players who now play those roles it's often done by someone who was considered a star of the youth setup at the time.

For me that would be like a Jack Roles type player becoming that functionary not a Lesniak.

 

[danielneeds]

The problem for me is those functional players stop being functional at higher levels - the game passes them by. When you look at the PL players who now play those roles it's often done by someone who was considered a star of the youth setup at the time.

For me that would be like a Jack Roles type player becoming that functionary not a Lesniak.

This being known as "The Scott Parker Principle". Lol..

 

[sammyj]

Good news on edwards

 

[Blake Griffin]

The problem for me is those functional players stop being functional at higher levels - the game passes them by. When you look at the PL players who now play those roles it's often done by someone who was considered a star of the youth setup at the time.

For me that would be like a Jack Roles type player becoming that functionary not a Lesniak.

i'd be surprised if roles has a better career than amos personally.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

Good news on edwards

What is?

 

[Sweech]

i'd be surprised if roles has a better career than amos personally.

Why's that?

I know I'm biased, but I think incredibly highly of Roles.

 

[chrissivad]

Harrison, Amos and Edwards will be training with the first team ahead of the Villa game; not sure whether any of them will make the matchday squad though.

What is?

The post above

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The problem for me is those functional players stop being functional at higher levels - the game passes them by. When you look at the PL players who now play those roles it's often done by someone who was considered a star of the youth setup at the time.

For me that would be like a Jack Roles type player becoming that functionary not a Lesniak.

Yeah, that's fine in theory, and great when it it's workable, you end up with the Seedorf's, Davids, Senna's and Cambiasso's but not sure it's always doable in practice. Quality footballing busy ****s are pretty rare. I think player like Lesniak and Amos at their best can end up being Kante's or Wanyama's. Not the nirvana but still useful.

 

[beats1]

Yeah, that's fine in theory, and great when it it's workable, you end up with the Seedorf's, Davids, Senna's and Cambiasso's but not sure it's always doable in practice. Quality footballing busy ****s are pretty rare. I think player like Lesniak and Amos at their best can end up being Kante's or Wanyama's. Not the nirvana but still useful.

You literally named a player who wasnt a star of their youth setup in Marcos Senna and a late bloomer.

Another example is Darren Fletcher, hardly a top player in the united academy but under fergie in 2009 went from being their donkey to one of their most important player.

Even Livermore, hardly a star for us if anything he was terrible at times but with hard work he broke the glass ceiling(arguably paving the way for others) and did well to be a regular for a PL/championship club.

 

[Sweech]

You literally named a player who wasnt a star of their youth setup in Marcos Senna and a late bloomer.

Another example is Darren Fletcher, hardly a top player in the united academy but under fergie in 2009 went from being their donkey to one of their most important player.

Even Livermore, hardly a star for us if anything he was terrible at times but with hard work he broke the glass ceiling(arguably paving the way for others) and did well to be a regular for a PL/championship club.

Not saying those types of players won't become future players at the next level. I'm saying that often times they don't become future players for the level we are aspiring to. So the likes of Livermore and Fletcher are still examples of not being good enough.

 

[Sweech]

Yeah, that's fine in theory, and great when it it's workable, you end up with the Seedorf's, Davids, Senna's and Cambiasso's but not sure it's always doable in practice. Quality footballing busy ****s are pretty rare. I think player like Lesniak and Amos at their best can end up being Kante's or Wanyama's. Not the nirvana but still useful.

I think you're misconstruing what I'm saying slightly.

I'm saying the likes of the Lesniaks and Amos' don't become Wanyamas or Kantes. I'm saying usually it's the higher grade players that become Wanyamas or Kantes. Usually Lesniaks and Amos become Livermores at best.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think you're misconstruing what I'm saying slightly.

I'm saying the likes of the Lesniaks and Amos' don't become Wanyamas or Kantes. I'm saying usually it's the higher grade players that become Wanyamas or Kantes. Usually Lesniaks and Amos become Livermores at best.

Maybe. But I think with these types of players it's really hard to tell at the development stage. I doubt Kanté was even on Chelsea's radar 2 years ago.

Like I said, these aren't the Edwards, Onomah or Winks's, even at U18 level they are performing unspectacular roles in their teams.

I never rated Livermore (still don't) but quite liked Dombaxe (who was really good footballing busy ****in that great nextgen generation that produced Kane, Pritchard, Carroll, Veljkovic, Stewart, Smith etc) one has played plenty of PL football, the other has faded into the abyss of non league. But ability wise at youth level, you wouldn't have put the gap anywhere like that.

 

[wlhatwhl]

Maybe. But I think with these types of players it's really hard to tell at the development stage. I doubt Kanté was even on Chelsea's radar 2 years ago.

Like I said, these aren't the Edwards, Onomah or Winks's, even at U18 level they are performing unspectacular roles in their teams.

I never rated Livermore (still don't) but quite liked Dombaxe (who was really good footballing busy ****in that great nextgen generation that produced Kane, Pritchard, Carroll, Veljkovic, Stewart, Smith etc) one has played plenty of PL football, the other has faded into the abyss of non league. But ability wise at youth level, you wouldn't have put the gap anywhere like that.

I saw Dombaxe play at U-16 level in the NI Milk Cup competition in a team with Stewart who was 18 months older, Lee Angol (now at Peterborough) and Kenny McEvoy. Dombaxe was the outstanding player in the team, everything went through him while Stewart was a solid defender. Dombaxe looked a likely star of the future whereas Stewart was a useful all-rounder. How wrong could I be and I read today that Liverpool have turned down offers for Stewart as Klopp sees him as a useful squad member.

Two years later Luke Amos was very impressive in the same competition. Although younger and smaller than his opponents he played well in midfield in a team that also included Winks and Will Miller. Injury has hindered Amos in the past couple of years as in his 2nd year in the Academy he showed good form in midfield in the U-21 team. Another difficulty last season and again this year, the Spurs U-21/23 teams have been poor, many of the more experienced players who could have helped younger players in the team, went out on loan or were moved on. Amos has a good eye for a pass, even from full back, not the most natural position for him. I'm pleased to see him getting an opportunity around the first team squad.

 

[beats1]

Not saying those types of players won't become future players at the next level. I'm saying that often times they don't become future players for the level we are aspiring to. So the likes of Livermore and Fletcher are still examples of not being good enough.

Darren Fletcher was arguably one of Man Utd's most important player in that CL final team, I dont understand how you can say he isn't good enough or at the level we want to be. This what Mourinhos words were regarding Fletcher and him missing the CL final "Fletcher is more important than people think. His work in midfield, especially in the midfield 'wars', in crucial matches is very important. Man United will miss his pace and aggression in defensive actions: he 'eats' opponents in defensive transition. I believe Xavi and Andrés Iniesta are happy Fletch is not playing."

He also made the PL team of the season as well.


I was using Livermore as an example of someone doing very badly but then getting a chance and doing well for us.

 

[danielneeds]

Yeah, that's fine in theory, and great when it it's workable, you end up with the Seedorf's, Davids, Senna's and Cambiasso's but not sure it's always doable in practice. Quality footballing busy ****s are pretty rare. I think player like Lesniak and Amos at their best can end up being Kante's or Wanyama's. Not the nirvana but still useful.

I think what he's saying is that the likelihood is that Kante was a star at his academy at France, and would have player further forward. What usually happens in youth football is that the players with better skills gravitate to certain positions, and the ones with less skills move to others. That's why you get youth strikers being moved to fullback or creative midfielders tried at DM.

 

[IGSpur]

I was a fan when he was 15, I've said this before. He was a really stand out midfielder as a schoolboy. The problem is that I have watched as his peers have caught up and overtaken him. He's not great defensively, either in terms of his positioning and anticipation, he doesn't have the power and pace of a Winks or Onomah to move about the pitch, his passing is nothing to write home about. He's just...average and not first team average, development squad average.

Think you're being quite harsh on Amos. As you say at 15 when eh was an AM he was a standout, but spent the first year of his scholarship not playing as he was competing with better players. I think in the 2nd year eh managed to translate his ability into a more compact player at DM and relatively speakingw as a very good holding player in his age group. He has just been mucked around the last year, however he has always had ability. He has more ability than Walkes and is a grafter, I can see why Poch will like him, but I think he has fallen just short of his potential again this year.

I saw Dombaxe play at U-16 level in the NI Milk Cup competition in a team with Stewart who was 18 months older, Lee Angol (now at Peterborough) and Kenny McEvoy. Dombaxe was the outstanding player in the team, everything went through him while Stewart was a solid defender. Dombaxe looked a likely star of the future whereas Stewart was a useful all-rounder. How wrong could I be and I read today that Liverpool have turned down offers for Stewart as Klopp sees him as a useful squad member.

Funnily enough I was never Dombaxe's greatest fans. I thought he was decent but I felt he was too erratic and scatty. At youth level I thought he carried out a good role, but I felt he was too much of a liability to translate that to the first team. Though I liked him as a player, as he was quite an influential character and didn't hide, IIRC, taking pens etc

 

[Blake Griffin]

Why's that?

I know I'm biased, but I think incredibly highly of Roles.

i just don't think there's much to roles outside of good timing and striking the ball well, obviously they're pretty handy qualities to have but there are too many deficiencies in the rest of his game for me whereas amos(albeit very different) is pretty solid in most aspects and is better athletically too.