The Spurs Youth Thread – 2016/2017

[StartingPrice]

I was a fan when he was 15, I've said this before. He was a really stand out midfielder as a schoolboy. The problem is that I have watched as his peers have caught up and overtaken him. He's not great defensively, either in terms of his positioning and anticipation, he doesn't have the power and pace of a Winks or Onomah to move about the pitch, his passing is nothing to write home about. He's just...average and not first team average, development squad average.

Really? I'm quite surprised. Maybe you've seen him more than I have, but whenever I've seen him the one thing that stood out for me was the way he always seemed to be in the right place at the right time to break up play. Carrickesque, almost. That was playing in midfield, of course, and I'm not sure I would play him elsewhere or judge him based on when he is played in other positions.

The rest of what you say may be true - but I thought that was exactly Poch's ideal central midfielder, an all rounder who can break play up and has a reasonable passing range. he word previously was that Poch liked him, wasn't it? If yes, I would guess that is exactly why Poch likes him.

 

[IGSpur]

i just don't think there's much to roles outside of good timing and striking the ball well, obviously they're pretty handy qualities to have but there are too many deficiencies in the rest of his game for me whereas amos(albeit very different) is pretty solid in most aspects and is better athletically too.

I tend to agree with you here. I've watched him for the last couple of years, and he has never really or consistently stood out in a match, but I've started to try and see things differently in terms of what and who can make it.

He is very much like Alli, and I don't think Alli is that great a player in terms of build-up but Alli would be one of the last players I'd consider dropping, even when he is going through a lean patch, as if a chance is to be created I'd want Alli to be there.

Roles is like that, quite anonymous in the actual game, but his scoring record at youth level is outstanding, and very rare for a midfielder and leads me to believe he could make something of himself, with that knack of being there and finishing. Hopefully he'll develop more of his game, and he has great football intelligence but I can be quite a back seat player. I know Carroll got called it a lot, but I'd actually describe Roles as your typical tidy player. Knitting things together without doing much. But he comes alive in the final third, and he is a nasty so and so on the field so people know he is there. I know I've mentioned it before but Kirby would regularly outshine him in all areas bar maybe goals slightly, but as we know we don't know how players develop so hopefully Roles really becomes more imposing. If he does that he could be a first teamer. Saying that though, and I do need to go back and re-watch as I missed it, but I beleive he came on in IMG Cup against Blackrock was it, and changed the game, so maybe he is starting to show those signs/

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I saw Dombaxe play at U-16 level in the NI Milk Cup competition in a team with Stewart who was 18 months older, Lee Angol (now at Peterborough) and Kenny McEvoy. Dombaxe was the outstanding player in the team, everything went through him while Stewart was a solid defender. Dombaxe looked a likely star of the future whereas Stewart was a useful all-rounder. How wrong could I be and I read today that Liverpool have turned down offers for Stewart as Klopp sees him as a useful squad member.

Two years later Luke Amos was very impressive in the same competition. Although younger and smaller than his opponents he played well in midfield in a team that also included Winks and Will Miller. Injury has hindered Amos in the past couple of years as in his 2nd year in the Academy he showed good form in midfield in the U-21 team. Another difficulty last season and again this year, the Spurs U-21/23 teams have been poor, many of the more experienced players who could have helped younger players in the team, went out on loan or were moved on. Amos has a good eye for a pass, even from full back, not the most natural position for him. I'm pleased to see him getting an opportunity around the first team squad.

See, others liked him as well, and I don't think we could all be wrong, I just think that kind of functionary is almost the hardest position to make it, but you need so much luck as well as talent to make it because you're not scoring goals and being overtly creative or making last ditch CB tackles and catching the eye. It's a very undervalued position both in footballing and monetary terms. You look at the price Kante went for and the difference he's made to both Leicester and Chelsea, I don't think Leicester are league champions without him, and Zidane said the same about Makalele (that he was Real Madrid's most important player) yet Kante cost just about the same as a third rate AM like Sissoko.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think what he's saying is that the likelihood is that Kante was a star at his academy at France, and would have player further forward. What usually happens in youth football is that the players with better skills gravitate to certain positions, and the ones with less skills move to others. That's why you get youth strikers being moved to fullback or creative midfielders tried at DM.

Yeah, I appreciate what he's saying and agree, but it's just not a whole "truth" is all I'm saying. There are no real catch all rules to this, sometimes it works that way (i.e. Ajax had that famous system where by all they did was take into their academy the most skillfull players, and then move them down the pitch according to who was the least skilful of the skilful etc) and sometimes it doesn't.

I don't think Kante was ever the Iniesta of Boulogne or Caen (I watched him play and don't even remember him, or them talking about him in France much).

And I think there's more to players like Lesniak than just being "busy". Apart from the prerequisite tenacity and dynamism that comes as standard for his position, I always thought he was technically very good and composed on the ball under pressure, and positionally very clever, a good reader of the game and I think in his last couple of seasons in very messy U21/23 teams, he managed to be very consistent throughout, without ever doing anything incredibly eye catching.

And I know people will point at his loan (and other players who seem talented but fail on loan) but loans just do not always work. Mason couldn't get a start in a shit Lorient team in the fifth richest league in Europe, a year or two later he was staring every game in a PL team finishing 5th. Kane had a couple of really bad loans (Leicester and Norwich) where, when not injured (Norwich) he looked fucking awful, clumsy and missed sitters and their fans were laughing at him.

 

[danielneeds]

Yeah, I appreciate what he's saying and agree, but it's just not a whole "truth" is all I'm saying. There are no real catch all rules to this, sometimes it works that way (i.e. Ajax had that famous system where by all they did was take into their academy the most skillfull players, and then move them down the pitch according to who was the least skilful of the skilful etc) and sometimes it doesn't.

I don't think Kante was ever the Iniesta of Boulogne or Caen (I watched him play and don't even remember him, or them talking about him in France much).

And I think there's more to players like Lesniak than just being "busy". Apart from the prerequisite tenacity and dynamism that comes as standard for his position, I always thought he was technically very good and composed on the ball under pressure, and positionally very clever, a good reader of the game and I think in his last couple of seasons in very messy U21/23 teams, he managed to be very consistent throughout, without ever doing anything incredibly eye catching.

And I know people will point at his loan (and other players who seem talented but fail on loan) but loans just do not always work. Mason couldn't get a start in a shit Lorient team in the fifth richest league in Europe, a year or two later he was staring every game in a PL team finishing 5th. Kane had a couple of really bad loans (Leicester and Norwich) where, when not injured (Norwich) he looked fucking awful, clumsy and missed sitters and their fans were laughing at him.

You are right there is no hard and fast rules on this. Thank god for that, cos Chelsea and City would throw millions at those rules.

I also think McDermott and our development programme is more advanced than just throwing the least talented players to fullback, and the way it used to be done.

In the end though the margins are so fine between the players who make it into the PL and those who bounce down the leagues and into the non-league abyss. Most of it comes down to mentality, and how they react to disappointment and challenges. And that's the stuff that it's really impossible for us to assess from this distance.

 

[EQP]

Since Nigel Gibbs was a youth coach with us, i'd imagine there might be a couple youth players we could loan them. He's obviously seen them first hand and would be great experience for our younger players to get some loan experience. Maybe KWP and Onomah to Swansea? What position do Swansea need strengthening in?

 

[Spurzinho]

Since Nigel Gibbs was a youth coach with us, i'd imagine there might be a couple youth players we could loan them. He's obviously seen them first hand and would be great experience for our younger players to get some loan experience. Maybe KWP and Onomah to Swansea? What position do Swansea need strengthening in?

If their performance against us was anything to go by 1-11.

 

[Blake Griffin]

don't think gibbs has worked with onomah, i guess kwp could be an option but the chances a new manager takes on an unproven(albeit very talented) kid to help his struggling team are pretty slim. i just hope we get it right with him if he does indeed go out on loan. even if it's to a side playing at a lower level than we'd ideally want, as long as he gets games and they at least try to play football then it will surely be more beneficial than another 4-5 months of u23s.

 

[Sweech]

Since Nigel Gibbs was a youth coach with us, i'd imagine there might be a couple youth players we could loan them. He's obviously seen them first hand and would be great experience for our younger players to get some loan experience. Maybe KWP and Onomah to Swansea? What position do Swansea need strengthening in?

They desperately need defense and help on the wings.

 

[glospur]

Walker-Peters very poor in the first half against Chelsea; misplaced passes, silly free kicks and has been beaten a number of times in the first half hour.

Obviously a small sample size and I don't see a lot of him, but if this is anything to go by it's clear why he hasn't been involved in the first team more often.

 

[WindyCOYS]

Walker-Peters very poor in the first half against Chelsea; misplaced passes, silly free kicks and has been beaten a number of times in the first half hour.

Obviously a small sample size and I don't see a lot of him, but if this is anything to go by it's clear why he hasn't been involved in the first team more often.

Sorry to hear that as a big fan of KWP. Who is he up against?

 

[glospur]

Sorry to hear that as a big fan of KWP. Who is he up against?

Solanke and Mount (I think, their 11) from the look of it. Solanke's been drifting behind the striker, but has popped up on the left more than anywhere else, but that might be because a majority of the play that I've seen has been down that side.

'Very poor' might have been overstating it actually, but he certainly hasn't been impressive. Pritchard the most impressive of our players so far, has looked decent on the ball and has a very natural style in the way he carries the ball. Harrison scores just as I type this, assisted by a cross from Oduwa.

 

[glospur]

KWP arguably at fault for the second goal as well. Too tight to the CB and just let Solanke go outside him who finished on the angle.

 

[WindyCOYS]

KWP arguably at fault for the second goal as well. Too tight to the CB and just let Solanke go outside him who finished on the angle.

Thought Walkes diving in was the issue - meant the whole defence had to quickly shuffle and Pritchard didn't fill in.

 

[glospur]

Thought Walkes diving in was the issue - meant the whole defence had to quickly shuffle and Pritchard didn't fill in.

Yeah probably fair enough, alhough I'm not sure that Walkes diving in was necessarily a bad decision on his part. But from the look of it KWP and Maghoma(?) were both marking the same man. Solanke was obviously the dangerous player on the outside yet was allowed to make the run unopposed.

I have to admit though, I'm only half watching, not keeping a really close eye on the match.

 

[Gb160]

Thought Walkes diving in was the issue - meant the whole defence had to quickly shuffle and Pritchard didn't fill in.

Does Pau Lopez play regularly for the U21s now Windy ?
I don't get to watch the yoof as often as I'd like.

 

[WindyCOYS]

Does Pau Lopez play regularly for the U21s now Windy ?
I don't get to watch the yoof as often as I'd like.

He's been playing regularly recently (U23s), which I must admit that I find really odd.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

He's been playing regularly recently (U23s), which I must admit that I find really odd.

Presumably just to bed him in, non?

 

[Sweech]

Solanke and Mount (I think, their 11) from the look of it. Solanke's been drifting behind the striker, but has popped up on the left more than anywhere else, but that might be because a majority of the play that I've seen has been down that side.

'Very poor' might have been overstating it actually, but he certainly hasn't been impressive. Pritchard the most impressive of our players so far, has looked decent on the ball and has a very natural style in the way he carries the ball. Harrison scores just as I type this, assisted by a cross from Oduwa.

Solanke has had a history of giving KWP a lot of trouble. At least I believe it was Solanke...could have been Abraham.

Either way I distinctly remember matching up with Chelsea before and they would put their big powerful striker out on the wing to take advantage of the fact KWP still seems to have problems with players that have some technical ability and the ability to simply overpower him.

This is the reason why I don't understand those clamouring for Poch to use KWP. He has a glaring issue that even the most Neanderthal managers of this league are going to exploit almost immediately.

I love KWP as a player and think he will become great for us, but he still needs time especially for physical development.

 

[WindyCOYS]

Presumably just to bed him in, non?

Correct, but at the expense of Glover/Whiteman/Austin/etc.