The silent backlash continues...

[mikeeegreen]

I just hope @mikeeegreen hasn't wanked himself into a coma reading the OP.

No but the OP has a very valid point. As someone who went to the Lane last season for over half the games I agree with him..

 

[spurs mental]

We should have kept Paulinho. Brazilian flair is what we need.

 

[walworthyid]

The 84th minute dash!! Ive missed about 4 winners, but saved approximately 2 days of my life!

Ah the self righteous biter. "Give it to someone who wants to go" you are of course absolutely right and hence I gave it up every time free of charge. Only.... No one wanted it!! You might have a different opinion if you had spent 10 bags on death by football.

I'll have it next time mate!

 

[eddiebailey]

As I said, I don't want our game to be about retaining possession at all costs. I'd rather lose the ball trying to create a goal than pass it back to our defenders so we can invariably start another move where we lose it anyway. I want players to take risks and I applaud them for taking risks even if they lose the ball, because if players keep trying to create opportunities eventually they will be successful. We will never create an opportunity passing the ball between our defenders. You win a game of football by scoring goals, not by how much of the ball you see.

The problem is that in this system we have so little cover at the back that each time we concede possession it is game on for the opposition.

 

[Maske2g]

The problem is that in this system we have so little cover at the back that each time we concede possession it is game on for the opposition.

There is a balance somewhere between. away, it's fine. Keep the ball.

at home, we play like we are already winning, from the off. At 0-0 with 10 mins left, we up the tempo. If we are losing, we play with the same plan.

Win the ball back, get a shape where we can control the ball again (simultaneously allowing the opposition to get behind the ball), then struggle to get into the final third. If you are a goal up it's fine. Let them sit back. It's totally the wrong football at home at 0-0.

 

[Mattspur]

The problem is that in this system we have so little cover at the back that each time we concede possession it is game on for the opposition.

I agree, and this is another problem with slow football - by the time we work it up the pitch all of our midfielders and both fullbacks are in forward positions. So when we lose it it's pretty much a flat out race to get back and defend it against the opposition moving the ball forward into acres of space.

If we moved the ball quicker it's only natural that all our players won't be in such advanced positions so counter attacks become easier to defend.

 

[greaves]

I agree, and this is another problem with slow football - by the time we work it up the pitch all of our midfielders and both fullbacks are in forward positions. So when we lose it it's pretty much a flat out race to get back and defend it against the opposition moving the ball forward into acres of space.

If we moved the ball quicker it's only natural that all our players won't be in such advanced positions so counter attacks become easier to defend.

and then there's the other factor that, with it being so slow, the whole team has fallen asleep!

 

[sloth]

The 84th minute dash!! Ive missed about 4 winners, but saved approximately 2 days of my life!

Ah the self righteous biter. "Give it to someone who wants to go" you are of course absolutely right and hence I gave it up every time free of charge. Only.... No one wanted it!! You might have a different opinion if you had spent 10 bags on death by football.

Here's an article which addresses the question of what's happening with the fans: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/08/how-football-lost-touch-young-fans

Anyway from what people have been saying in here, either the reason for this dissatisfaction is the football is changing, or the attitude of the fans is changing, or maybe some combination of both?

Most likely reason for me is that as we get older we lose a bit of faith that anything is possible, we get jaded and start looking back at the good old days. This works the same in the outside world too, it's no surprise UKIP is made up primarily of 60 somethings! In terms of average age of season ticket holders, we know a ten years ago it was around 35, now it's 45; basically it's the same people with the same tickets. Anecdotally that's born out by this thread, where folk hold on and hold on sometimes to multiple tickets at a time, and when they pass them on it's to their mates, who presumably are of the same age, or if it's to younger folk, they don't want them, because quite frankly what 20 something wants to spend two hours sitting beside a bunch a moaning 40 somethings on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon?

I'd like to pretend that the new stadium will change things, but it probably won't. For it to make a difference the club will have to take a leaf out of Germany's book, they'll need to price tickets so they're affordable to younger people, they'll have to create sections for them at grounds, we need to bring back the standing in designated sections, probably we need to limit the number of season tickets available to around 50/60% of the total capacity, all of which in the short-term has a negative impact on the club's finances, but I believe in the long term would secure our future.

Anyway, I write all this as a 40 something myself, so it's my own age group I'm having a go at. But for me, the problem is us, the older fans, but it's a problem created by first our small stadium and second by short-sighted, money first ticketing policies.

 

[SteveH]

Its called getting old!

 

[TwanYid]

So many on here are missing the OP's point:

We are fucking BORING.

Fuck "5th place," to hell with "a Cup final" (let's not even get in to that one)-- the main idea here centers around the fact that our football is so Goddamn dull as to be literally unwatchable.

Last season I didn't finish watching the majority of our matches. I had never, ever in 15 years of supporting Spurs ever missed even one minute of a game- and yet there I was, barely looking up at the television because the football was so putrid.

Yes- yes- ok: three games were exciting- but that's three fucking games out of sixty!!!

I don't think this can be overstated enough: if we keep on playing like this, people will leave in droves. Life's too short to pretend to be interested in a team that plays like shit but manages to eke out more wins than losses over teams ever shittier...

I would MUCH rather have an exciting, swashbuckling team that finished 8th than a boring, conservative outfit that basically out-endured the opposition, managing to stay awake long enough to score a late winner. If this keeps up, many of us will leave not by choice but because we just stopped being interested.

Tottenham are starting to remind me of a girlfriend that's boring, safe, and average-looking; sure it's ok for a while, but eventually it gets old.

 

[xtrac]

So many on here are missing the OP's point:

We are fucking BORING.

Fuck "5th place," to hell with "a Cup final" (let's not even get in to that one)-- the main idea here centers around the fact that our football is so Goddamn dull as to be literally unwatchable.

Last season I didn't finish watching the majority of our matches. I had never, ever in 15 years of supporting Spurs ever missed even one minute of a game- and yet there I was, barely looking up at the television because the football was so putrid.

Yes- yes- ok: three games were exciting- but that's three fucking games out of sixty!!!

I don't think this can be overstated enough: if we keep on playing like this, people will leave in droves. Life's too short to pretend to be interested in a team that plays like shit but manages to eke out more wins than losses over teams ever shittier...

I would MUCH rather have an exciting, swashbuckling team that finished 8th than a boring, conservative outfit that basically out-endured the opposition, managing to stay awake long enough to score a late winner. If this keeps up, many of us will leave not by choice but because we just stopped being interested.

Tottenham are starting to remind me of a girlfriend that's boring, safe, and average-looking; sure it's ok for a while, but eventually it gets old.

Its Poch's cunning plan, to bore the fucking shit out of the opposition, then once they are nodding off... Attack!! Only briefly tho, dont want to wake them!!

 

[Gb160]

Its Poch's cunning plan, to bore the fucking shit out of the opposition, then once they are nodding off... Attack!! Only briefly tho, dont want to wake them!!

Sounds like the 'Cosby approach'...

 

[SteveH]

Sounds like the 'Cosby approach'...

Works for me!

 

[BuryMeInEngland]

So many on here are missing the OP's point:

We are fucking BORING.

Fuck "5th place," to hell with "a Cup final" (let's not even get in to that one)-- the main idea here centers around the fact that our football is so Goddamn dull as to be literally unwatchable.

Last season I didn't finish watching the majority of our matches. I had never, ever in 15 years of supporting Spurs ever missed even one minute of a game- and yet there I was, barely looking up at the television because the football was so putrid.

Yes- yes- ok: three games were exciting- but that's three fucking games out of sixty!!!

I don't think this can be overstated enough: if we keep on playing like this, people will leave in droves. Life's too short to pretend to be interested in a team that plays like shit but manages to eke out more wins than losses over teams ever shittier...

I would MUCH rather have an exciting, swashbuckling team that finished 8th than a boring, conservative outfit that basically out-endured the opposition, managing to stay awake long enough to score a late winner. If this keeps up, many of us will leave not by choice but because we just stopped being interested.

Tottenham are starting to remind me of a girlfriend that's boring, safe, and average-looking; sure it's ok for a while, but eventually it gets old.

You would hear a lot more people complaining if we were a perennial mid-table team that never played in a European competition. In fact the screams of horror and the demands for a new manager that could lift us back into contention would be fucking deafening.

It doesn't matter how "exciting" the football at WHL would be, a team that finishes regularly 8th through 10th or 11th place (and that might only be the difference of a few points) would not be getting a shiny new 61000 seat stadium along with all the glitz that goes with it, and we would certainly not be attracting (or keeping) the players that everyone says we should be signing.

Let's be an 8th place team and then we'll see how long Harry Kane stays in a Spurs shirt.

 

[TwanYid]

You would hear a lot more people complaining if we were a perennial mid-table team that never played in a European competition. In fact the screams of horror and the demands for a new manager that could lift us back into contention would be fucking deafening.

It doesn't matter how "exciting" the football at WHL would be, a team that finishes regularly 8th through 10th or 11th place (and that might only be the difference of a few points) would not be getting a shiny new 61000 seat stadium along with all the glitz that goes with it, and we would certainly not be attracting (or keeping) the players that everyone says we should be signing.

Let's be an 8th place team and then we'll see how long Harry Kane stays in a Spurs shirt.

West Ham are in Europe. It's not that big of a deal to be in the Europa League these days- it's almost hard not to be in it. Also, I doubt Harry Kane will relish staying on a perennial 5th/6th place team either- and neither will Hugo Lloris (or any other first-rate player for that matter); anything non-Champions League isn't much of a draw.

And I disagree about filling the shiny new stadium. 5th or 6th place doesn't put bums on seats, love of Tottenham and a desire to watch entertaining football does. If over the next few years we consistently finish in 5th or 6th place whilst playing dull, shit soccer we'll lose fans in droves.

 

[Spurger King]

Last season I didn't finish watching the majority of our matches. I had never, ever in 15 years of supporting Spurs ever missed even one minute of a game- and yet there I was, barely looking up at the television because the football was so putrid.

Pretty sure live streaming (or even official American coverage) of every Spurs game hasn't even been around for half that amount of time.

You would hear a lot more people complaining if we were a perennial mid-table team that never played in a European competition. In fact the screams of horror and the demands for a new manager that could lift us back into contention would be fucking deafening.

It doesn't matter how "exciting" the football at WHL would be, a team that finishes regularly 8th through 10th or 11th place (and that might only be the difference of a few points) would not be getting a shiny new 61000 seat stadium along with all the glitz that goes with it, and we would certainly not be attracting (or keeping) the players that everyone says we should be signing.

Let's be an 8th place team and then we'll see how long Harry Kane stays in a Spurs shirt.

It is boring though. You're right to say that our consistency has given us regular European football, made the new stadium realisable, and has helped us to keep more of our better players (for a bit longer than usual anyway), but I can see why the shine is taken off all of that when the majority of our games are so incredibly uninspiring.

Short of encouraging a free-spending billionaire to buy the club, the new stadium is unlikely to do more than consolidate our position as a top 5-6 club - but still not rich enough to break into the top 4 on a regular basis. The idea of being perennial 5th place finishers, playing dull football and rarely if ever actually winning a trophy for another 10 years, doesn't fill me with joy.

Plus Jol and Redknapp managed 5 top 5 (or better) finishes playing much more entertaining football, so it's not as if finishing higher than mid-table and exciting football are mutually exclusive.

 

[Borks]

West Ham are in Europe. It's not that big of a deal to be in the Europa League these days- it's almost hard not to be in it. Also, I doubt Harry Kane will relish staying on a perennial 5th/6th place team either- and neither will Hugo Lloris (or any other first-rate player for that matter); anything non-Champions League isn't much of a draw.

And I disagree about filling the shiny new stadium. 5th or 6th place doesn't put bums on seats, love of Tottenham and a desire to watch entertaining football does. If over the next few years we consistently finish in 5th or 6th place whilst playing dull, shit soccer we'll lose fans in droves.

West Ham aren't in the Europa league, in fact, they never were. The Europa league starts with the group stage and the knockout stages features some very good teams and the possibility to qualify for the champions league. There is a big difference between what Spurs and West Ham try and achieve with regards to the EL.

"It's almost hard not to be in it" - How can you expect to be taken seriously with statements like this? I don't care what anyone says, we spent enough years in the 90s and early 00's doing fuck all in terms of European competition for me not to care about the Europa league. I want us to win the EL just as much as I wanted us to win the UEFA cup a few years back; these are the nights we should live for as a football club. Whatever happens domestically, there is nothing that tops a great European night at the Lane or away trip with thousands of other Spurs fans proving ourselves against some of the top European clubs. Realistically we cannot compete with City, Utd, Arsenal or Chelsea on the spending front and anyone that thinks that top 4 is still our aim needs to open their eyes. With the current FFP it's not about having rich owners anymore, it's about generating the income to be able to spend within your means.

I wish more fans would stop thinking we're above the Europa League.

 

[BuryMeInEngland]

It is boring though. You're right to say that our consistency has given us regular European football, made the new stadium realisable, and has helped us to keep more of our better players (for a bit longer than usual anyway), but I can see why the shine is taken off all of that when the majority of our games are so incredibly uninspiring.

Short of encouraging a free-spending billionaire to buy the club, the new stadium is unlikely to do more than consolidate our position as a top 5-6 club - but still not rich enough to break into the top 4 on a regular basis. The idea of being perennial 5th place finishers, playing dull football and rarely if ever actually winning a trophy for another 10 years, doesn't fill me with joy.

Plus Jol and Redknapp managed 5 top 5 (or better) finishes playing much more entertaining football, so it's not as if finishing higher than mid-table and exciting football are mutually exclusive.

The point I've made before though is that boring football is not something Tottenham have an exclusive patent on.

If you're playing an equally boring team (and pick any of them quite honestly) that is intent only on getting a single point out of the game then not very surprisingly it will be a boring game. Who in the PL plays "exciting" football week in and week out? I hate to say this but possibly the Chavs and sometimes Man City and that's it. Are L'Arse exciting? Liverpool? Stoke, Sunderland?

I have no way of knowing (and I can't really be bothered to find out) if fans on sites like KUMB or RedandWhiteKop are whining and complaining because it is perceived that the style of football they play is boring, but I might be willing to bet they're not. Also, If Redknapp and Jol produced such exciting football at WHL then how come they're not managing some top flight team now and producing the same style of football? Probably because they were both completely shit at the last clubs they respectively managed, which should actually tell you a lot about their managerial capabilities - even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

Tottenham fans have been accused many times of being deluded or having unrealistic high expectations based on the club history, and quite honestly that is how these complaints come over. "We're not exciting enough" "We should play the best football imaginable" "We're so boring, even more than Stoke or Villa", it's just complaining for the sake of complaining quite honestly. This is how the game is in this country now and maybe we just need to accept that its unlikely to change in the foreseeable future.

 

[guiltyparty]

Here's an article which addresses the question of what's happening with the fans: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/08/how-football-lost-touch-young-fans

Anyway from what people have been saying in here, either the reason for this dissatisfaction is the football is changing, or the attitude of the fans is changing, or maybe some combination of both?

Most likely reason for me is that as we get older we lose a bit of faith that anything is possible, we get jaded and start looking back at the good old days. This works the same in the outside world too, it's no surprise UKIP is made up primarily of 60 somethings! In terms of average age of season ticket holders, we know a ten years ago it was around 35, now it's 45; basically it's the same people with the same tickets. Anecdotally that's born out by this thread, where folk hold on and hold on sometimes to multiple tickets at a time, and when they pass them on it's to their mates, who presumably are of the same age, or if it's to younger folk, they don't want them, because quite frankly what 20 something wants to spend two hours sitting beside a bunch a moaning 40 somethings on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon?

I'd like to pretend that the new stadium will change things, but it probably won't. For it to make a difference the club will have to take a leaf out of Germany's book, they'll need to price tickets so they're affordable to younger people, they'll have to create sections for them at grounds, we need to bring back the standing in designated sections, probably we need to limit the number of season tickets available to around 50/60% of the total capacity, all of which in the short-term has a negative impact on the club's finances, but I believe in the long term would secure our future.

Anyway, I write all this as a 40 something myself, so it's my own age group I'm having a go at. But for me, the problem is us, the older fans, but it's a problem created by first our small stadium and second by short-sighted, money first ticketing policies.

What a fantastic article. Will buy the book

 

[TwanYid]

Pretty sure live streaming (or even official American coverage) of every Spurs game hasn't even been around for half that amount of time.

First off, Tottenham have been on television here, consistently, since 2001-02 (my first season watching us). Even back then, Fox Soccer Channel had pretty much every game- just on delay. I would find out when we were on and watch the game as if it were live. It was easy- the internet was in its' infancy and no one cared about English soccer so there was no way on earth I'd find out if we beat, say, Portsmouth unless I checked.

Secondly, I didn't mean to imply that I have never missed a Spurs game ever. What I was/am referring to are Spurs Prem games-- and of those, I have seen probably 95% of them in fifteen years (in the last decade that figure would be closer to 99%, and in the last 7 years- 100%).

Thirdly, my point also was that when we were/are on, I never missed a minute of any match. So in other words- historically, if I was watching us, I was fucking glued to the set like a crazed zombie. I never took my eyes off that box. I soaked in everything...

Until AVB. Once they fired my eternally beloved Harry and replaced him with the smarmy, sweaty little ginger technocrat- and at the same time dumped- at the elfin genius' behest- my favorite-ever Spurs player- my interest began to wane. I still watched, but Tottenham's grip on my psyche has loosened. Into the ginger genius' second season I truly began not to care, and then last season I stopped giving a shit even more. I loved watching us back in the Keane/Kanoute/Mido years--- now, I am strangely apathetic.

Obviously I still love us- I'm on this fucking forum so much my wife wants to block it- so the addiction's still there. But it's lessening- and if this season is a repeat of last season I will get a life.