The Rugby Thread

[talkshowhost86]

That actually wasn’t what I asked.

Would you put them in the same category as a 6N match? Taking into consideration the teams, the aims of the match, the fact that the mentality is nowhere near the same level etc etc.

I obviously know that technically they go down on your record, hence why I said if you take out the warm up games we’ve won our last 19 games.

Reckon those warm up games are more of an indicator of a team than, for example, matches against the likes of Uruguay and Georgia.

Cant really just pick and choose though.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

That actually wasn’t what I asked.

Would you put them in the same category as a 6N match? Taking into consideration the teams, the aims of the match, the fact that the mentality is nowhere near the same level etc etc.

I obviously know that technically they go down on your record, hence why I said if you take out the warm up games we’ve won our last 19 games.

No I probably wouldn't. But I wouldn't put internationals in the same category if a Lions tour was on at the same time, taking away some players, or if a touring squad had left some players at home for a rest. Nor, for that matter - though it's obviously a bit different - if injury had significantly weakened a team.

You could probably make an argument for any match that isn't between two full strength teams in a tournament.

Especially if you lost it.

 

[E17yid]

Reckon those warm up games are more of an indicator of a team than, for example, matches against the likes of Uruguay and Georgia.

Cant really just pick and choose though.

That’s quality of opposition which is a separate issue. Also not talking about an indicator of a team otherwise I’d be inclined to agree.

 

[E17yid]

No I probably wouldn't. But I wouldn't put internationals in the same category if a Lions tour was on at the same time, taking away some players, or if a touring squad had left some players at home for a rest. Nor, for that matter - though it's obviously a bit different - if injury had significantly weakened a team.

You could probably make an argument for any match that isn't between two full strength teams in a tournament.



Especially if you lost it.

Stopped reading after the bold bit. Thanks.

 

[E17yid]

Obviously I don’t really care but I reckon Gatland will be saying something similar to the players.

It’s not even necessarily about the players or different tactics it’s about pressure. 6N and WC is win at all costs. Do what you need to do to win. Warm up games are the complete opposite. I’d even go as far as to say that in WC warm up games you get individuals putting themselves before the team as they want to standout for selection.

 

[Japhet]

Obviously I don’t really care but I reckon Gatland will be saying something similar to the players.

It’s not even necessarily about the players or different tactics it’s about pressure. 6N and WC is win at all costs. Do what you need to do to win. Warm up games are the complete opposite. I’d even go as far as to say that in WC warm up games you get individuals putting themselves before the team as they want to standout for selection.

You could say the same for Autumn Internationals. They're a test bed and an opportunity to experiment before the yearly tournament kicks off, but you wouldn't reject those games as not proper internationals. If you did you might as well sack off everything that isn't a tournament game.

 

[E17yid]

You could say the same for Autumn Internationals. They're a test bed and an opportunity to experiment before the yearly tournament kicks off, but you wouldn't reject those games as not proper internationals. If you did you might as well sack off everything that isn't a tournament game.

I see your point but I would disagree. Autumn internationals are definitely, for me, in the win at all costs bracket, you don’t experiment in those games, you play your strongest available team and the focus is on the win, well, for Wales I would say it is, imo.Also, the pressure on the players and the mentality as well as the emotional energy you put into it is a world apart from warm up games which, as I say, is more akin to pre season friendlies. Good example is Ireland. We lost twice to Ireland with different teams but when we last played them in a proper competitive game we stuffed them.

Also, you don’t get to play all the SH teams outside of a WC very often. However, you make a good point that autumn internationals, prior to a WC could take on a bit more of an experimental element but like the autumn internationals last year (and pretty much every year) they’re mostly always prior to your domestic competition not a WC.

 

[E17yid]

Where would people like to see future WC being held?

After France in 2022 I think it’s got to go over the Atlantic. I’d like to see USA or Canada get a crack at hosting. Argentina would be great too.

In terms of more traditional countries it would be good to see SA get one too. At least we wouldn’t have to worry about getting up or staying up until silly o clock.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Where would people like to see future WC being held?

After France in 2022 I think it’s got to go over the Atlantic. I’d like to see USA or Canada get a crack at hosting. Argentina would be great too.

In terms of more traditional countries it would be good to see SA get one too. At least we wouldn’t have to worry about getting up or staying up until silly o clock.

Think Argentina would be superb if they can deal with it from an infrastructure perspective. The US would also be good.

At some point I'd like to see them considering some of the smaller European countries (in Rugby terms). Germany, Spain, Russia etc all have the infrastructure to do it. And it would hopefully help grow the game in some other countries outside the traditional ones.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

It's got to go to the States, hasn't it?

 

['O Zio]

It's got to go to the States, hasn't it?

I reckon that's the obvious choice. It's a growing sport over there, and they started the professional league (Major League Rugby) over there I think 2 seasons ago and it's by all accounts going very well. Having a WC there could work wonders. Also it would require very little work in terms of infrastructure because they already have more than enough stadiums and all that. The only issue would be that a lot of the NFL stadiums have astroturf pitches rather than grass, so they might have to use smaller venues.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

I reckon that's the obvious choice. It's a growing sport over there, and they started the professional league (Major League Rugby) over there I think 2 seasons ago and it's by all accounts going very well. Having a WC there could work wonders. Also it would require very little work in terms of infrastructure because they already have more than enough stadiums and all that. The only issue would be that a lot of the NFL stadiums have astroturf pitches rather than grass, so they might have to use smaller venues.

Surely they'd rip up the astroturf in order to facilitate a proper game.

 

[E17yid]

Some good mind games between Jones and Hanson. Hanson having a pop shot at the 6 nations too.

 

[E17yid]

Apparently Nigel Owens wasn’t initially selected to be the ref in the England v NZ game, Jaco Peyper was but now he’s being investigated (what a joke that is) he got deselected and Owens took his place.

Hes not my favourite ref but you’ve got to feel sorry for him. Have no idea on what basis they’re investigating him. Very strange. I guess they’re just making an example of him but it does seem way over the top.

 

[LeSoupeKitchen]

I appreciate it’s a bit convenient to do that but surely you accept that the warm up games aren’t exactly proper test matches. I mean, the main aim of them isn’t even necessarily to win them. You’re testing different strategies,tactics, personnel etc etc.but most importantly they are essential pre season games.

We do know, though. We hear every day from players and coaches about the dangers of a busy fixture list.

You’re not undercooked. 7 games in 2 months 4 and a half of those games against tier 1 sides. You’re not undercooked. Sorry.

If you lose it won’t be because you’re undercooked. I think this was going to be a close game but now you’ll win this comfortably by 15 points. If you don’t it’s because you’ve bottled it.

Make your mind up buddy. A week ago you were saying we weren't undercooked due to these Tier 1 games. Now these games you claimed prepared us for the intensity of a WC quarter final aren't proper test matches?

 

['O Zio]

Apparently Nigel Owens wasn’t initially selected to be the ref in the England v NZ game, Jaco Peyper was but now he’s being investigated (what a joke that is) he got deselected and Owens took his place.

Hes not my favourite ref but you’ve got to feel sorry for him. Have no idea on what basis they’re investigating him. Very strange. I guess they’re just making an example of him but it does seem way over the top.

Agree. It was obviously a pretty silly thing to do but it was clearly a case where he'd been asked to do it and was just being a good sport. Plus it's hardly like it was a controversial decision or anything, it was about as blatant a red card as you'll ever see, so there's obviously no issue with regards to integrity or anything. All seems to have been blown out of proportion IMO. If they think he's the best man for the job then they should still have him reffing the match

 

[E17yid]

Make your mind up buddy. A week ago you were saying we weren't undercooked due to these Tier 1 games. Now these games you claimed prepared us for the intensity of a WC quarter final aren't proper test matches?

Prepared being the key word there. The warm up games are also partly a selection process to get your squad down to 31. But yeah they get you vital minutes and builds body toughness for sure but it’s not a substitute for games where points are on offer as they are in the World Cup. That’s just the selection and physical, though, the real difference is in the mentality and the emotional energy which is key and you have to separate those 2 factors.

Don’t get me wrong, that game against you in Cardiff had some niggle to it, as was rightly said by people on here we were slowing ball down and doing all sorts to try and get the win in that game so I’m not saying the warm up games are pointless you need them and you don’t want to lose them all but they’re different.

None of this bollocks matters anyway. The 4 best countries in the world are playing each other this weekend and whoever wins those games will be the 2 best countries whether they’re on an unbeaten run or not.

 

[E17yid]

Agree. It was obviously a pretty silly thing to do but it was clearly a case where he'd been asked to do it and was just being a good sport. Plus it's hardly like it was a controversial decision or anything, it was about as blatant a red card as you'll ever see, so there's obviously no issue with regards to integrity or anything. All seems to have been blown out of proportion IMO. If they think he's the best man for the job then they should still have him reffing the match

That’s the key thing isn’t it, it’s not controversial. If Nigel Owens had done something similar after that Lavanini red card I could understand this reaction maybe but even then, that red card wasn’t deemed controversial by anyone either.

On the game on Saturday, Owens will ref what’s in front of him on the day but I would imagine this will be the first time he’s been ref in back to back NZ games. Not that it matters but you’ve got to be on your game with NZ but he generally lets teams get away with more at the breakdown.

Said it all along, you’ll either crash out your group or win it. Got a feeling you’ll sneak it by 2. England v SA final.

Check mate Arnold.

 

[E17yid]

This would be interesting if true. Scott Barrett to play 6 with Savea moving to 7 and Cane dropping to the bench.

2019 Rugby World Cup: All Blacks set to start Scott Barrett in semifinal against England - NZ Herald

After 20 straight starts, All Blacks star tipped to be benched in shock move.

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[E17yid]

Looks like it was true

New Zealand: Beauden Barrett; Sevu Reece, Jack Goodhue, Anton Lienert-Brown, George Bridge; Richie Mo'unga, Aaron Smith; Joe Moody, Codie Taylor, Nepo Laulala, Brodie Retallick, Sam Whitelock, Scott Barrett, Ardie Savea, Kieran Read (capt).

Replacements: Dane Coles, Ofa Tuungafasi, Angus Ta'avao, Patrick Tuipulotu, Sam Cane, TJ Perenara, Sonny Bill Williams, Jordie Barrett.