The Rugby Thread

[Japhet]

You think that’s a red?

I don't think it's a red card but it's cynical cheap shot.

 

[mpickard2087]

I don't get all the complaining about the red card decisions and what a tackler is allowed to do these days (a lot of it seems to be southern hemisphere led).

I really don't think it's that difficult. All the players so far have deservedly got in trouble trying to king hit people, leading with the shoulder (with a belated, or non-existent wrap of the arm). It's lazy and/or shit technique, rightfully been made illegal, and can do serious damage.

 

[E17yid]

I don't get all the complaining about the red card decisions and what a tackler is allowed to do these days (a lot of it seems to be southern hemisphere led).

I really don't think it's that difficult. All the players so far have deservedly got in trouble trying to king hit people, leading with the shoulder (with a belated, or non-existent wrap of the arm). It's lazy and/or shit technique, rightfully been made illegal, and can do serious damage.

As I’ve said in previous posts the majority of concussions (seeing as that’s all their concerned with) come from the tacklers, not ball carriers and a good chunk of those are knees, hips, elbows I.e your low down. Rugby is a dangerous game.

 

[E17yid]

I don't think it's a red card but it's cynical cheap shot.

Agree. You could make a case for it being a yellow but it’s just a pen for me, and a severe talking too.

You could put it in the same group as that Hooper tackle on Biggar as they were both cynical, deliberate fouls but even then the Hooper one was worse as it was late, off the ball and used an illegal tackling technique.

 

[E17yid]

In fact I think I read somewhere that since they brought this in the number of concussions have actually increased in the Aviva and Pro 14 so go figure.

 

[Japhet]

Agree. You could make a case for it being a yellow but it’s just a pen for me, and a severe talking too.

You could put it in the same group as that Hooper tackle on Biggar as they were both cynical, deliberate fouls but even then the Hooper one was worse as it was late, off the ball and used an illegal tackling technique.

I thought Hooper's 'tackle' was cynical and late but others seemed to think it wasn't late. I don't know what I'm watching half the time now tbh.

 

[E17yid]

I thought Hooper's 'tackle' was cynical and late but others seemed to think it wasn't late. I don't know what I'm watching half the time now tbh.

Yeah it wasn’t really really late so perhaps a bit borderline but it was late enough. It was long enough (about 2seconds) that it meant he could’ve pulled out of it.

 

[E17yid]

I think the most savage stuff you see these days is the clear out at the ruck. You’ve got 16 stone plus monsters running in from a distance at full tilt to guys that are stationary and a lot of that stuff goes unpunished.

I just done think we’ve got any kind of consistency at the moment. Perhaps, in time, we will but at the moment in this WC you read/hear more stuff about the fucking refs and TMO than you do the rugby which is a shame.

I think we’re going to see red cards in at least 1 of every knockout game all the way up to the final which I think is a shame, unless they’re like the Samoa or the USA v England one in which case they’re fully deserved.

 

[E17yid]

Here’s a funny scenario.

Wales lose to Fiji (with no losing bonus point) and the Wales v Uruguay game is abandoned due to typhoon Hagibis and Wales then finish 3rd in the group due to the Uruguay game going down as a draw.

Even if we finish 2nd as a result of the typhoon it will be a joke.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Here’s a funny scenario.

Wales lose to Fiji (with no losing bonus point) and the Wales v Uruguay game is abandoned due to typhoon Hagibis and Wales then finish 3rd in the group due to the Uruguay game going down as a draw.

Even if we finish 2nd as a result of the typhoon it will be a joke.

God has always been anti-Welsh.

How else do you explain Newport?

 

[E17yid]

God has always been anti-Welsh.

How else do explain Newport?

I’ve never looked at it that way but now you mention it it makes perfect sense.

 

[mpickard2087]

As I’ve said in previous posts the majority of concussions (seeing as that’s all their concerned with) come from the tacklers, not ball carriers and a good chunk of those are knees, hips, elbows I.e your low down. Rugby is a dangerous game.

But that's a separate issue. We'd all accept there is risk in rugby and beyond coaching safe tackling technique as a kid that example it is hard to do anything about.

Some areas though they can do something to clean up the sport and reduce the risk. Such as the clampdown on the head shots, where I fully support them. I'm sick already of coaches/media/players at this world cup whinging about what they can and cant do and feigning ignorance..... Tackle properly and stop shouldering people in the head going for the wild big shot at the ball carrier. It's not hard.

There are definitely some other areas that they need to look at, which have already been discussed, like how players missile into a ruck to clean out. I've said before that it is probably the no.1 thing they should be cracking down on. But some improvement is better than none.

Some fans might think it's too much, but I think the governing body have seen what's happened with NFL - and the lawsuits about concussion and neglect of player welfare - and are a bit spooked and so trying to demonstrate they're being proactive and doing something about it in their own sport. It's hard to blame them for that.

 

[E17yid]

But that's a separate issue. We'd all accept there is risk in rugby and beyond coaching safe tackling technique as a kid that example it is hard to do anything about.

Some areas though they can do something to clean up the sport and reduce the risk. Such as the clampdown on the head shots, where I fully support them. I'm sick already of coaches/media/players at this world cup whinging about what they can and cant do and feigning ignorance..... Tackle properly and stop shouldering people in the head going for the wild big shot at the ball carrier. It's not hard.

There are definitely some other areas that they need to look at, which have already been discussed, like how players missile into a ruck to clean out. I've said before that it is probably the no.1 thing they should be cracking down on. But some improvement is better than none.

Some fans might think it's too much, but I think the governing body have seen what's happened with NFL - and the lawsuits about concussion and neglect of player welfare - and are a bit spooked and so trying to demonstrate they're being proactive and doing something about it in their own sport. It's hard to blame them for that.

Those are all fair points which I agree with I just think intent should be crucial in determining whether it’s a red or not. You could even chuck in something like was it reckless which would cover the incidents that weren’t intentional but still resulted in a big blow to the head. I guess the problem there is the word reckless is more open to interpretation whereas intent isn’t. 9/10 you can spot intent from a mile off.

 

['O Zio]

But that's a separate issue. We'd all accept there is risk in rugby and beyond coaching safe tackling technique as a kid that example it is hard to do anything about.

Some areas though they can do something to clean up the sport and reduce the risk. Such as the clampdown on the head shots, where I fully support them. I'm sick already of coaches/media/players at this world cup whinging about what they can and cant do and feigning ignorance..... Tackle properly and stop shouldering people in the head going for the wild big shot at the ball carrier. It's not hard.

There are definitely some other areas that they need to look at, which have already been discussed, like how players missile into a ruck to clean out. I've said before that it is probably the no.1 thing they should be cracking down on. But some improvement is better than none.

Some fans might think it's too much, but I think the governing body have seen what's happened with NFL - and the lawsuits about concussion and neglect of player welfare - and are a bit spooked and so trying to demonstrate they're being proactive and doing something about it in their own sport. It's hard to blame them for that.

Well said. Just because there are multiple ways people get concussions doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reduce the number caused in this particular way. It may not completely solve the problem but even if it reduces concussions by 10% that's still worth doing. They have a bit of a ways to go in terms of making sure decisions and punishments are more consistent but that's all just part of the process.

 

[E17yid]

Well said. Just because there are multiple ways people get concussions doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reduce the number caused in this particular way. It may not completely solve the problem but even if it reduces concussions by 10% that's still worth doing. They have a bit of a ways to go in terms of making sure decisions and punishments are more consistent but that's all just part of the process.

The point is, though, that concussions have apparently increased so it’s having the opposite effect. Making people go lower all the time is not necessarily safer.

Safer for the ball carrier, yes, but for the tackler that’s not always the case.

 

['O Zio]

The point is, though, that concussions have apparently increased so it’s having the opposite effect. Making people go lower all the time is not necessarily safer.

Safer for the ball carrier, yes, but for the tackler that’s not always the case.

I think the idea is that they need players to fundamentally change the way they tackle. Part of that is cutting out the clearly dangerous high hits and cheap shots through legislation but part of that is also the next generation of players learning how to tackle as safely as possible for their own benefit as well at the ball carrier. I think at the moment we're still in a bit of a half way house where players haven't refined their technique and so perhaps temporarily are putting themselves at more risk as tacklers but over time I think that will sort itself out. Some of the changes have to be enforced through rules changes but ultimately proper technique is just as important.

 

[Japhet]

I think the idea is that they need players to fundamentally change the way they tackle. Part of that is cutting out the clearly dangerous high hits and cheap shots through legislation but part of that is also the next generation of players learning how to tackle as safely as possible for their own benefit as well at the ball carrier. I think at the moment we're still in a bit of a half way house where players haven't refined their technique and so perhaps temporarily are putting themselves at more risk as tacklers but over time I think that will sort itself out. Some of the changes have to be enforced through rules changes but ultimately proper technique is just as important.

Even with proper technique and safety aware rules there will always be big riskd in rugby. It's something players choose to take on board when they step onto the pitch. There are countless incidents of legal tackles that could have had massive consequences for the players involved. One example that sticks in my mind is Courtney Lawes tackle on Jules Pluisson. It's a fair tackle under the rules but the slow motion is quite disturbing.

 

['O Zio]

Even with proper technique and safety aware rules there will always be big riskd in rugby. It's something players choose to take on board when they step onto the pitch. There are countless incidents of legal tackles that could have had massive consequences for the players involved. One example that sticks in my mind is Courtney Lawes tackle on Jules Pluisson. It's a fair tackle under the rules but the slow motion is quite disturbing.

Yeah I don't think anyone is suggesting you can ever completely eliminate danger from the game. But clearly there is a need to try and reduce the number of concussions in particular. Maybe the current proposals aren't the best way of doing that, but that doesn't mean there's no point in trying.

 

[teok]

I think it can still work. You go through this phase of having a load of red/yellow cards which people get up in arms about then players adapt.

If you think, this world cup we have had hardly any of those incidents where people get turned off balance in the air and land on their head/neck/back. That used to be pretty common.

 

[E17yid]

The talk is they want to ban anything above the waist by the time the next WC begins.