The ousting of Daniel (COYS)

[yido_number1]

Pleased with how things are going at the moment. Hopefully this is because levy doesn't have too much involvement in the deals and is leaving it to the pro's.

To be fair it's usually after year one where goal posts are moved so I'll reserve judgement for next year and hope things are fixed. Pitchfork in the cupboard but regularly dusted for now.

 

[newbie]

@newbie - I would quote, but don't want another reference. Might want to edit your post and remove that email address.

ooops thank u

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

How much of the football revenue is used to pay the stadium loan back every year?

According to this article £28.2 million a year which if correct is easily covered by the stadium earnings for other revenue i.e concerts , NFL etc , in the last accounts this was stated to be £31.9 million .
So another feather in the cap for Daniel.

Premier League Football Clubs Debt And Interest Payment Data 2021/22 - The Sports Journal

Listen to this Article (Audio) Debt and football clubs always go hand in hand. However, there are many different types of debt, ranging from frightening to statistically insignificant. Premier League Football Clubs Debt And Interest Payment Data 2022/23 Lots of clubs are running at a loss and...

sportsjournal.io

 

[dovahkiin]

Levy’s long game at Tottenham might be about to pay off in a big way

Spurs looking to spend ambitiously after years of being smart with their money

www.standard.co.uk

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

New athletic article

What other Premier League clubs' FFP issues tell us about Daniel Levy and Spurs

Spurs have been committed to sticking to Premier League and UEFA rules on finance - a position that has now been justified more than ever

theathletic.com

If you took a glance at the reaction to the Premier League enforcing its profit and sustainability rules (PSR) this week, you could be forgiven for thinking that they were an act of vandalism. As if some spiteful outsider was gleefully taking a hatchet to our beloved league, destroying its beloved mobility, its beloved competitiveness, out of nothing more than puritanical jealousy.

One of the many remarkable things about the events of recent days has been how the public sphere has been dominated by those voices arguing the PSR system is bad.

Everton have fought their corner after their 10-point ban and subsequent second charge, while we await a campaign on behalf of Nottingham Forest. But the discussion has it seems been led by those associated with Newcastle United, bristling at the realisation they will not be able to turn Saudi Arabia’s state wealth into signed footballers as smoothly as they hoped. To call their complaints prejudiced barely scratches the surface. It is a surprise that so many others with no stake in their success have decided to adopt their self-serving logic.

But it does make you wonder why no one is making the public case for the rules.

In an ideal world, the Premier League itself would be dominating the airwaves, arguing why, in a time of flux and uncertainty, we need our leading clubs to be stable and secure, and protected from their own worst instincts. The Premier League’s chief executive Richard Masters should not need to speak to a House of Commons select committee to be heard on this matter.

In an ideal world, the point could be reiterated that the Premier League is a collective endeavour and that these were the rules the clubs signed up to in the first place.

It could be sold as a far-sighted and sensible move to preserve competition and safeguard the future of the English game, if only someone was willing to make that argument in public.



As long as the anti-PSR voices dominate the media, people will be left with the wrong impression: that there is nothing to be said for these rules and that no one in football who supports them. The reality is the opposite.

There is a silent majority of clubs who have played by the rules since their introduction and only spent within their means. These are clubs who have repeatedly faced public pressure to spend more but have decided against it, knowing they would risk unpopularity with their fans and losing their competitive edge by doing so. It has not been an easy position for clubs to take.

There must have been moments for clubs in recent years when they wondered what the point was in playing within the rules. Because if those rules were not enforced — and it is only this season that the Premier League has started seriously punishing teams for breaches — then they were effectively meaningless. You cannot have regulation as something that clubs can choose to opt into. You may as well have a car race with an optional speed limit.

This is why the events of this season are so significant.

If these rules are finally being enforced, then they are no longer something that clubs can opt into. The choice of whether to comply with the speed limit or not has been removed. And if this is now the case — and yes, it may still be too early to tell — then the landscape of English football has changed forever.

We may not hear much from the rule-abiding silent majority this week, but maybe they feel that they do not need to do the talking right now. Because if the landscape has changed, then it has changed in their favour.

Take, for example, Tottenham Hotspur.

They have worked very hard to run themselves sustainably throughout ENIC’s 22-year tenure. They have only spent what they generate, they keep wage costs as a smaller proportion of revenue than anyone else (just 47 per cent in 2021-22) and they do not rely on benefactor largesse to keep up. They have never won the Premier League, but the fact they have stayed competitive near its top end, despite the constraints they face, is a testament to their long-term strategy.

According to Swiss Ramble, the football business blogger, Tottenham were the most profitable team in the league across 10 seasons from 2012-13 to 2021-22. Spurs are nothing if not committed to staying well within the rules.


Moving to the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium has massively boosted the club’s matchday revenue (Mark Leech/Offside via Getty Images)
Central to this strategy is the money brought in by the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, which they moved into in April 2019. This has transformed the club’s matchday revenue. In the 2021-22 season, Tottenham brought in £106m in matchday revenue, second only to Manchester United (£111m). In Spurs’ last season at the old White Hart Lane, 2016-17, they brought in £45.3m.

Tottenham have not yet published their 2022-23 accounts, which are expected next month or in early March, but it would not be a surprise if they have overtaken United and made more matchday revenue than anyone else. And that number will not include the eight-figure sum the club made for staging five sold-out Beyonce concerts in May and June last year. Their overall revenue for 2022-23 could be pushing the £500million mark.

As the money has started to roll in from the new stadium, Tottenham have slowly started to be more ambitious in the transfer market.

When their 2021-22 accounts were published in February last year, a statement on the club website proudly announced Spurs had “invested more than £500million” in first-team players since their new stadium opened, “putting us in the top five of spending in the Premier League”.

Tottenham continued to spend last summer and have done so again this month. The summer of 2018, when they signed no one, feels a long time ago now.

But generating revenue through your stadium could only ever be part of the plan. For a self-sustaining model to work, whether at Tottenham, Brighton & Hove Albion or anywhere else, it needs to exist in a world where all clubs are held to the same rules.



Only then will teams stand or fall by their own revenue and the quality of their decisions. Otherwise, owners will just spend as much as they can and, as sure as night follows day, those with the deepest pockets will win in the end.

It is no surprise, then, that Spurs’ chairman Daniel Levy has repeatedly spoken so positively about PSR and European football governing body UEFA’s equivalents.

Levy’s ‘chairman’s statement’ last February said: “We welcome the changes to the governance of the game, which will compel greater financial sustainability and financial fair play (FFP).” Levy pointed to UEFA’s new sustainability rules and wrote: “Many expect that these new rules will be a game changer for the sport. Even tighter regulations may follow.”

Stay informed on the big story
Details of the charges against Everton and Forest
Why action against Man City is taking much longer
How the rules are impacting the transfer window
When Levy spoke to the Cambridge Union in March last year, he again underlined his belief in the value of spending restrictions.

Discussing the importance of clubs still making investments, Levy said that “the most important thing” was “to not get ourselves in a place where unlimited investment can be made, and it isn’t sustainable when that investment suddenly stops or that owner suddenly goes, and then the club disappears”. He again pointed to the new UEFA rules and predicted they would have “quite a big impact on the financing of football”.

It would not be a surprise if Levy — or anyone else running a club who play within the rules — would be keen on them being enforced or even tightened in future.

Sticking to the rules is self-defeating unless the rules have teeth. For years, the clubs who stick by the rules have seen themselves leapfrogged by the clubs who do not. Robust enforcement could be a silver bullet for those clubs who comply.



It has been tempting in recent years to draw a line between Tottenham’s strategy now and Arsenal’s strategy under Arsene Wenger.

The two situations are not identical but Arsenal made a bet when they moved from Highbury to the Emirates Stadium in 2006 that the increased matchday revenue would transform the position of the club in the financial landscape. But when Manchester City were bought by Abu Dhabi two years later, the landscape moved irreversibly against Arsenal. Wenger was a vocal campaigner for UEFA’s FFP rules, and called for clear rules and clear punishments.

By 2017, with City and Qatar-owned Paris Saint-Germain barely impacted by FFP enforcement, Wenger had effectively lost the argument. Europe’s biggest clubs could spend more or less whatever they wanted.

“Do we have to open the door completely to investments?,” Wenger said in 2017, at the start of his final season as Arsenal manager. “It looks like we have created rules that cannot be respected. Nothing worse than when you create rules that are not respected.” In this environment, where clubs could spend whatever they wanted, the revenue uptick of the Emirates Stadium had effectively been rendered irrelevant.

We now know that the 2010s was a decade of financial permissiveness in the game, a Wild West of spending. Betting on your own intelligence and revenue generation never stood a chance. The question, now that the Premier League is enforcing its rules, is whether that bet has a better shot in the 2020s.

There are so many tears from rival fans about this. It's lovely to read.

I know many of you in this thread have whinged that Levy hasn't spent more during his tenure but the fact we are now in a position to make signings without having to sell, due to the increased revenue from the new stadium, and a sensible wage budget. While Everton, Newcastle, Chelsea, Arsenal are hamstrung by overspending has to surely prove that Levy's long term vision was the right one?

 

[yido_number1]

There are so many tears from rival fans about this. It's lovely to read.

I know many of you in this thread have whinged that Levy hasn't spent more during his tenure but the fact we are now in a position to make signings without having to sell, due to the increased revenue from the new stadium, and a sensible wage budget. While Everton, Newcastle, Chelsea, Arsenal are hamstrung by overspending has to surely prove that Levy's long term vision was the right one?

Arsenal didn't look too hamstrung in the summer spending over 160m. Everton, Chelsea and Newcastle definitely so.

In the long run this will get watered down again and we'll be back to square one.

 

[Trix]

There are so many tears from rival fans about this. It's lovely to read.

I know many of you in this thread have whinged that Levy hasn't spent more during his tenure but the fact we are now in a position to make signings without having to sell, due to the increased revenue from the new stadium, and a sensible wage budget. While Everton, Newcastle, Chelsea, Arsenal are hamstrung by overspending has to surely prove that Levy's long term vision was the right one?

Lets be very clear here, from my pov it is not a case of more, never has been, it's a case of at the right time and on the right players squad wise. I've always considered balancing the books to be of the upmost importance. That doesn't mean you can't spend the money in January on what is desperately needed at that time and cut your cloth accordingly in the following Summer. For example lets say we had a budget of £100mil last Summer and planned for a budget of £40mil in January. We all, every single one of us including Ange knew we needed another CB before deadline day. If we are that limited on funds some of that January budget should have been used then to bring that player in because we knew it was a ridiculous idea that 2 CB's would get us through until January. As it happens this January there aren't many fans who are asking for the world. The vast majority said just for god sake get us a CB, the same said CB EVERYONE knew we had to bring in in the Summer. Anything else was always going to be a bonus.

 

[jurgen]

There are so many tears from rival fans about this. It's lovely to read.

I know many of you in this thread have whinged that Levy hasn't spent more during his tenure but the fact we are now in a position to make signings without having to sell, due to the increased revenue from the new stadium, and a sensible wage budget. While Everton, Newcastle, Chelsea, Arsenal are hamstrung by overspending has to surely prove that Levy's long term vision was the right one?

Think we need to wait a few years to see how this all pans out, but the direction of travel is obviously good. Fingers crossed we keep doing the good work we currently are and don't shoot ourselves in the foot again, then we'll be cooking.

But in theory if someone was to float amendments in the future, could it get rolled back? You can imagine enough clubs being on the wrong end of FFP for the majority to want it changed...

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

But in theory if someone was to float amendments in the future, could it get rolled back? You can imagine enough clubs being on the wrong end of FFP for the majority to want it changed...

But how would that pan out with UEFA rules on FFP ?

 

[KingNick]

True but without the delay would we have the original planned stadium or what we have now , not sure of the timeline.

I can’t remember the original plans now it was that long ago! So the delay might have been for the best in the long run anyway. Especially if the NFL agreement (and incorporation into the stadium), for example, was something that was only thought of much later

 

[Liamyid28]

Finally after 20 odd years it is #LevyTime

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

I can’t remember the original plans now it was that long ago! So the delay might have been for the best in the long run anyway. Especially if the NFL agreement (and incorporation into the stadium), for example, was something that was only thought of much later

Had a quick look at the timeline , first announced 2008 , some building started in 2012 think that must have been Sainsbury's , delay because of CPO , new stadium plan 2015 work on stadium started in 2016, looks like the Archway metals delay meant first plan shelved and the current stadium built.

 

[inclineyid]

Let’s see where the club, ange and our trophy cabinet are in 2028 before we heap too much praise on dear leader.

I will hazard a guess at… still saying top 4 will be overachieving this season, ange managing at pastures new and still rather spacious and dusty. Prepare for the worst but hope for the best with levy.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Daniel definitely took his eye off the ball with the stadium. It’s his baby as you might say.
Good article in the Athletic about FFP. How the only clubs complaining are the ones who are falling foul. Wasn’t hard to guess that Everton and Forest might be caught out.
One thing for sure, if City are guilty there is only one punishment…..Relegation.
No doubt there will be government pressure on the Premier League. They are basically dealing with a country’s government. Boris wasn’t backward in pushing the Saudi purchase of Newcastle through.
Company in Abu Dhabi have just committed to a 25bn investment in Britain
Chairman of the company. Some bloke called Mubarak…..That’s it also the chairman of Man City.

 

[SpursSince1980]

Levy’s long game at Tottenham might be about to pay off in a big way

Spurs looking to spend ambitiously after years of being smart with their money

www.standard.co.uk

Key piece to this article is about giving rules teeth. They are meaningless without… as we have witnessed with City and Chelsea for 15+ years.

It also needs to be more agile.

Easy to identify and punish one or two infractions. EG: Forrest and Everton. But you have City with hundreds being investigated over many years. And could be even more years before they finally get held to account.
Would love to see the enforcers of these rules, break out portions of the infractions that have been bundled together and punish accordingly and with more immediate urgency. As at the current rate, I dont see any repercussions for City happening for years. And even then, they have enough money to tie it up in courts for even longer.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Would love to see the enforcers of these rules, break out portions of the infractions that have been bundled together and punish accordingly and with more immediate urgency. As at the current rate, I dont see any repercussions for City happening for years. And even then, they have enough money to tie it up in courts for even longer.

I would just leave it to lawyers of King's Council level to investigate the charges as they think fit, I would think they would know far more about legal procedures than anyone on this forum.

PS In fact sitting on the Everton case was a circuit court jufge probably higher than a KC, His Honour Alan Greenwood

Photoshot / TopFoto

His Honour JUDGE GREENWOOD (Alan Eliezer Greenwood) A Circuit Court Judge Assigned to the South Eastern Circuit Universal Pictorial Press Photo UGL 017506/A-09 05.07.2000 *** Local Caption *** .

www.topfoto.co.uk

 

[whitestreak]

Key piece to this article is about giving rules teeth. They are meaningless without… as we have witnessed with City and Chelsea for 15+ years.

It also needs to be more agile.

Easy to identify and punish one or two infractions. EG: Forrest and Everton. But you have City with hundreds being investigated over many years. And could be even more years before they finally get held to account.
Would love to see the enforcers of these rules, break out portions of the infractions that have been bundled together and punish accordingly and with more immediate urgency. As at the current rate, I dont see any repercussions for City happening for years. And even then, they have enough money to tie it up in courts for even longer.

in an alternative universe, City and chelsea ....hit them with an initial few charges say 20 and hit em really hard......and then keep charging them with the next 90 charges...relegate them for corruption, fraud etc and see how much the sports washers like that......(their fans will be mocked) their staff will run for the hills........and they can play non league football for the next 10 years
whilst they face more charges in other words send them to oblivion and let them argue the majority of BS defence from there.
In reality,what helps these guys cheat is the presumption of innocence, a fairly unique concept in british law.
In most countries around the world it works the other way round, so you are guilty till you prove your innocence.
Especially in the UAE and Russia! (but also france and italy) Its the reason why we can get messed around for years in the courts whilst people appeal and game the system by dragging out the process.....

 

[Rob]

in an alternative universe, City and chelsea ....hit them with an initial few charges say 20 and hit em really hard......and then keep charging them with the next 90 charges...relegate them for corruption, fraud etc and see how much the sports washers like that......(their fans will be mocked) their staff will run for the hills........and they can play non league football for the next 10 years
whilst they face more charges in other words send them to oblivion and let them argue the majority of BS defence from there.
In reality,what helps these guys cheat is the presumption of innocence, a fairly unique concept in british law.
In most countries around the world it works the other way round, so you are guilty till you prove your innocence.
Especially in the UAE and Russia! (but also france and italy) Its the reason why we can get messed around for years in the courts whilst people appeal and game the system by dragging out the process.....

It’s also the reason we don’t put innocent people on death row… swings and roundabouts.

 

[ukdy]

in an alternative universe, City and chelsea ....hit them with an initial few charges say 20 and hit em really hard......and then keep charging them with the next 90 charges...relegate them for corruption, fraud etc and see how much the sports washers like that......(their fans will be mocked) their staff will run for the hills........and they can play non league football for the next 10 years
whilst they face more charges in other words send them to oblivion and let them argue the majority of BS defence from there.
In reality,what helps these guys cheat is the presumption of innocence, a fairly unique concept in british law.
In most countries around the world it works the other way round, so you are guilty till you prove your innocence.
Especially in the UAE and Russia! (but also france and italy) Its the reason why we can get messed around for years in the courts whilst people appeal and game the system by dragging out the process.....

...in an alternative universe, the police receive an anonymous tip off that you're a murderer. They arrive at your doorstep to see you with blood on your t-shirt. Despite protesting it 'was only a nosebleed' - the circumstantial evidence is enough to convince a jury of your peers and you're off to HM Prison Wakefield.. You can argue your defence from there, and your life is ripped apart as you're guilty until you prove your innocence.

p.s, everything you own is seized and sold to pay for your stay in prison, and the only TV channel in your cell is AFTV on loop.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Arsenal didn't look too hamstrung in the summer spending over 160m. Everton, Chelsea and Newcastle definitely so.

In the long run this will get watered down again and we'll be back to square one.

That was the summer. My point is that they are on limit of FFP so can't spend so freely. This also goes for Man Utd as well who are limited on what they can spend this Jan because they maxed out in the summer.

Arsenal/Man U/Chelsea/Newcastle are not yet in the state Everton are but they are at a point where they need to bring in extra revenue, either by selling players, releasing high earners off the wage bill etc... to give them the wiggle room we seemingly have.