The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[wrd]

You asked me a question and I answered you.
Where are you coming from,some lofty height?

You're saying you're tired of excuses for Poch in a forum which for the past 2/3 weeks the majority of posts have been about wanting Poch out, when any of the 6 of us who still hold admittedly non logical hope of him turning it around try and offer a caveat or a counter argument, we're shouted down because apparently if we can't see the team has stopped playing for him we're blind, braindead or whatever else. Now I think they're some very justifiable reasons for wanting Poch to go, it's a results based sport and the results and to a large extent the logic back those who want him gone and I'm fine to admit that.

However for the past several days we've had people try and create new and exciting reasons to put the boot in, more sticks to beat Poch which are frankly ridiculous and people are just looking for another excuse to get the opportunity to call him a clown, sloppy or a shit manager or to undermine everything he has done for the club because apparently he was never a good manager. So maybe you're tired of excuses being made but maybe we're tired of the amount of shit being posted on the other side which is nothing but conjecture and theories but enough to justify having another dig at Poch.

 

[Ronwol196061]

No, a fucking adult one.

Well I wasn't. There are things he does that I cannot understand but my comments on the transfer window were valid and IMO correct and I couldn't give a short, sharp shit how tired you are.

Why are you insulting me?
Did I insult you?

 

[Ronwol196061]

You're saying you're tired of excuses for Poch in a forum which for the past 2/3 weeks the majority of posts have been about wanting Poch out, when any of the 6 of us who still hold admittedly non logical hope of him turning it around try and offer a caveat or a counter argument, we're shouted down because apparently if we can't see the team has stopped playing for him we're blind, braindead or whatever else. Now I think they're a some very justifiable reasons for wanting Poch to go, it's a results based sport and the results and to a large extent the logic back those who want him gone and I'm fine to admit that.

However for the past several days we've had people try and create new and exciting reasons to put the boot in, more sticks to beat Poch which are frankly ridiculous and people are just looking for another excuse to get the opportunity to call him a clown, sloppy or a shit manager or to undermine everything he has done for the club because apparently he was never a good manager. So maybe you're tired of excuses being made but maybe we're tired of the amount of shit being posted on the other side which is nothing but conjecture and theories but enough to justify having another dig at Poch.

I'm actually tired of excuses BY Poch
Also tired of hearing the excuses from others too.
I've yet to hear him take responsibility for anything.
I try not to insult other posters either.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Why are you insulting me?
Did I insult you?

Yes

I try not to insult other posters either.

Try harder

Also tired of hearing the excuses from others too.

Are you sure forums are the right gig for you?

 

[Ronwol196061]

Yes

Try harder

Are you sure forums are the right gig for you?

Again you insult me.
I dont get it
We have differing opinions on Poch but why are you making it personal?

 

[wrd]

Eriksen said he might well sign a new contract if the right offer didn't materialise in the Summer. That meant we had to wait for the European window to close, at which point he made it obvious he wanted a Bosman by running his contract out. IMO that had a really bad effect on the whole place. Maybe we would have pushed harder for a replacement like Fernandes if we'd known this would happen, but regardless of that, Eriksen pretty much downed tools at the same time, leaving us high and dry. Up until that point I think most people were hoping Eriksen would sign up again and it's only his powder puff performances and poxy attitude that have led to a huge majority of people wanting shot of him. I think most people were also astonished that nobody came in for Toby at 25m.

With hindsight I'm very disappointed that we didn't move them on, but at the time it didn't seem such a bad outcome, unaware of what was about to unfold.

I was disagreeing with people suggesting he would sign a new deal, I never understood how that would be the best move for him and I think people were looking through their spurs tinted glasses at the notion he ever would sign a new deal and I felt we needed to move him on asap because we needed to get some money. I was keen on moving Eriksen/Alder/Rose out and I think I said in the summer, the problem we're gonna have is if they run their contracts down then the problem we're gonna have is losing some great quality and not make money to reinvest. I also felt like the summer just gone wasn't gonna be the problem, it's going to be the next one when we have no money and we lose a host of players so for me moving them out last summer was the only option but as it was being left so late the concern was then are we getting replacements. During none of this did I ever factor in Vertonghen I thought he was here until he was 40 quite frankly.

All this to say it kinda irks me to now hear how it's supposedly an excuse for Poch and how it's only being said in hindsight when the problem has been coming for a long time and admittedly it's worse than first feared but it was coming. Now I do think Poch needs to stop cutting his nose off to spite his face and fucking drop these now. Whilst personally I think Levy and Poch have equal responsibility for this situation and that's not to say blame as I think if you argued that this was unavoidable I think you'd on the money, It's Poch who has his job on the line when it comes to results so he has to take the measures now.

 

[Anurag Jo]

If he had just an year left on his contract would he be gone by now?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

If Eriksen starts on Sunday, how will most people feel with Poch?

Not interested. But I'll be hacked off at Eriksen if he puts in another half arsed performance.

 

[skaz04nik]

My post was about nullifying his threat of crossing from dangerous areas, not necessarily at all.
TAA has never from the stats you have presented had 4 times as many crosses and 40+ more touches on the ball. Why is that do you think? By design or because they were seeing more joy from one side of the pitch. Genuine question.

Yes by design. Intentionally attacking more through one side of the pitch is typical for coaches (and Pool in particular). Why are you so surprised to see it?

In order to "nullify the threat" a player typically needs to show some tackles, interceptions or duels won etc
Eriksen did 0 tackles, 0 interceptions, and won 0 of his 4 ground duels (e.g. he lost every time). AR won 5 of 5 his duels.
To mention, Aurier did 2 tackles and 1 interception.

On the other hand, Son made 2 tackles and 1 interception; Rose 2 interceptions, 4 tackles and 6(!) clearances

CE and Aurier combined had 14 duels (of which 9 ground and 5 aerial), whereas Son + Rose had 23 duels (of which only 3 aerial). That supremacy of ground duels suggests our left part being overloaded by Pool. It wasn't 'a joy'

 

[dudu]

As explained before and mentioned numberous times even during the game,

If Eriksen starts on Sunday, how will most people feel with Poch?

Frustrated.

 

[Japhet]

I was disagreeing with people suggesting he would sign a new deal, I never understood how that would be the best move for him and I think people were looking through their spurs tinted glasses at the notion he ever would sign a new deal and I felt we needed to move him on asap because we needed to get some money. I was keen on moving Eriksen/Alder/Rose out and I think I said in the summer, the problem we're gonna have is if they run their contracts down then the problem we're gonna have is losing some great quality and not make money to reinvest. I also felt like the summer just gone wasn't gonna be the problem, it's going to be the next one when we have no money and we lose a host of players so for me moving them out last summer was the only option but as it was being left so late the concern was then are we getting replacements. During none of this did I ever factor in Vertonghen I thought he was here until he was 40 quite frankly.

All this to say it kinda irks me to now hear how it's supposedly an excuse for Poch and how it's only being said in hindsight when the problem has been coming for a long time and admittedly it's worse than first feared but it was coming. Now I do think Poch needs to stop cutting his nose off to spite his face and fucking drop these now. Whilst personally I think Levy and Poch have equal responsibility for this situation and that's not to say blame as I think if you argued that this was unavoidable I think you'd on the money, It's Poch who has his job on the line when it comes to results so he has to take the measures now.

I get what you're saying but I think Ramsey's transfer to Juve and the ludicrous contract they gave him changed a lot of player's and agent's minds as to how they viewed their futures. Same goes for Sanchez to MU to a lesser extent. Up until then players tended to safeguard their futures with long club contracts that only became an issue with a year left but now teams are trying to secure players for 6 years at a time, in the knowledge that after 3 years they have to try to resolve the future or take the hit. I wonder how people would have reacted if we'd flogged Eriksen a year earlier. I'm pretty sure there would have been accusations of 'no ambition' and 'selling club', but things look very different now.

 

[King Ledley 26]

I think WAY too much importance is attached to what managers say in press conferences. Some handle them well, some not so much.

We saw this with Redknapp, it got to the stage where literally everything he said was pounced on, spun to suit or he got hammered for it. It got ridiculous and that's how it's getting now, although admittedly, the bloke did love a camera.

So, he's to pick the team SC wants, play the tactics SC wants, sell or sign the players SC wants and every question he answers should also be answered how SC wants.

I reckon we should petition Levy to rotate us as manager, give us a week each.

We'd be perfect wouldn't we

Wouldn't we?

Agree you don't have to like the bloke but give him a break once and a while

 

[DenverSpur]

That is not true. You are drawing strong conclusions based off limited knowledge. Not as bad as @whitesocks whos made the incredible claim that he doubts Poch ever talks about tactics. Incredible because it advertises his bombastic stupidity.

The game plan for Eriksen and Son was shown clearly on french tv (which like the rest of the tv in France is far more thoughtful than in anglophone countries). They were asked to track the fullback when Liverpool were attacking down that wing. However when the ball was on the other flank Son and Eriksen were asked to tuck inside almost to halfway and block passing lanes. Liverpool did well to switch play by knocking a series of perfect 50 yard balls but it did slow their play down.

The key benefit of this tactic was to help in transition. From the first few seconds this inside position would provide triangles in the middle that would help us break at pace. If eg Eriksen had been over on the opposite flank then he would have been a long way from the ball if we won it back in the middle.

It was a fairly effective strategy and didn’t result in us conceding any goals.


Whilst I’m on one, the graphic posted by @coys200 is useless by itself. Imagine Kane and Son are swapping positions all game. The graphic would show their average position as being on top of each other even though they never once lived in the same space. Average positions don’t tell you about the types of runs made or movement. Very blunt instrument.

You make some very valid points with the usual Gallic humility. The fact that most of their attacks came via their FBs would suggest that Eriksen and Son failed to get out quick enough to close them down. While the average position may be a blunt instrument the fact that Eriksen’s is on the Centre circle suggests he spent much more time tucked in than out closing Robertson down. Sabotage may have been too strong a word but I still maintain they did not do enough work when we were out of possession and other top managers would have let know this.

 

[yankspurs]

Yes

Try harder

Are you sure forums are the right gig for you?

Again you insult me.
I dont get it
We have differing opinions on Poch but why are you making it personal?

Get a room, you two.


Can't we all just get along?

 

[DenverSpur]

Why do you think Eriksen and son sabotaged the game plan? How do you know that keeping them narrowwasn’t the game plan?

I don’t but as Liverpool’s main plan of attack is to get the ball out to their FBs to get in crosses it would seem suicidal to give them a free rein. Emery did that when Arsenal played there and got torn apart

 

[wrd]

I get what you're saying but I think Ramsey's transfer to Juve and the ludicrous contract they gave him changed a lot of player's and agent's minds as to how they viewed their futures. Same goes for Sanchez to MU to a lesser extent. Up until then players tended to safeguard their futures with long club contracts that only became an issue with a year left but now teams are trying to secure players for 6 years at a time, in the knowledge that after 3 years they have to try to resolve the future or take the hit. I wonder how people would have reacted if we'd flogged Eriksen a year earlier. I'm pretty sure there would have been accusations of 'no ambition' and 'selling club', but things look very different now.

Yep and I said as much during the summer: https://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/in...r-watch-christian-eriksen.122152/post-6447686

Completely agree on if we had flogged Eriksen a year earlier, we'd have all been furious, myself included but hindsight now tells us that's the way to go and that is exactly what I mean when I say Levy/Poch need to take responsibility but not want to call it blame. I think we are victims of a changing tide in football transfers and contracts and I think they need to accept in hindsight they needed to offer a new deal early out the gate or sell and get that money to reinvest and they can only do that with the knowledge they have now and take responsibility going forward if these situations arise again. I think you're right when you say you need a new deal with 3 years left or we need to look to sell. We're no longer a club that needs to cling to one player we have enough standing to sign quality replacements.

 

[ClintEastwould]

You're saying you're tired of excuses for Poch in a forum which for the past 2/3 weeks the majority of posts have been about wanting Poch out, when any of the 6 of us who still hold admittedly non logical hope of him turning it around try and offer a caveat or a counter argument, we're shouted down because apparently if we can't see the team has stopped playing for him we're blind, braindead or whatever else. Now I think they're a some very justifiable reasons for wanting Poch to go, it's a results based sport and the results and to a large extent the logic back those who want him gone and I'm fine to admit that.

However for the past several days we've had people try and create new and exciting reasons to put the boot in, more sticks to beat Poch which are frankly ridiculous and people are just looking for another excuse to get the opportunity to call him a clown, sloppy or a shit manager or to undermine everything he has done for the club because apparently he was never a good manager. So maybe you're tired of excuses being made but maybe we're tired of the amount of shit being posted on the other side which is nothing but conjecture and theories but enough to justify having another dig at Poch.

Fantastic post and spot on.

 

[dudu]

Yes by design. Intentionally attacking more through one side of the pitch is typical for coaches (and Pool in particular). Why are you so surprised to see it?

In order to "nullify the threat" a player typically needs to show some tackles, interceptions or duels won etc
Eriksen did 0 tackles, 0 interceptions, and won 0 of his 4 ground duels (e.g. he lost every time). AR won 5 of 5 his duels.
To mention, Aurier did 2 tackles and 1 interception.

On the other hand, Son made 2 tackles and 1 interception; Rose 2 interceptions, 4 tackles and 6(!) clearances

CE and Aurier combined had 14 duels (of which 9 ground and 5 aerial), whereas Son + Rose had 23 duels (of which only 3 aerial). That supremacy of ground duels suggests our left part being overloaded by Pool. It wasn't 'a joy'

I understand and appreciate your point but we are going round in circles mate, I don't want to clog up the thread more than I am sure I already have. We will just have to agree to disagree here

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Can't we all just get along?

You'll always be the site nutter, so no.

?

 

[DenverSpur]

Welcome to the internet. It's really a sad trend.

Only thing we can do on SC is to try an stop it on here.

You should see other communities it's disgusting.

You should see them on The Fighting Cock. No one can have discussion without someone swearing at them