The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[ClintEastwould]

?

I wonder what the ITKs think of this

 

[Ronwol196061]

The way that we started this game was incredible,the mood of Poch,calm. This contasts so much with how we have looked even to start games for a while.This does happen in footie to many teams but last night they reverted to the Glory game and itw as how they started so it wasn't simply a reaction to the opposition.
We did the same thing versus Bayern. But in that game, Winks couldn't hold the defence together as he was the only one there.They are both different teams and our backs ultimately caved in.
We need to get the right mix together for the Liverpool game especially in defence. Sanchez did look much much better yesterday than he has and I think Davies did well as well,Aurier too.
For this game and the first half an hour of the Bayern game, Ndombele was sensational.We need to protect the defence with Liverpool but unleash Ndombele to hit the type of passes Liverpool themselves make for Salah and Mane

 

[tooey]

I doubt you'll find one person on this site that doesn't want Poch to turn things round, but plenty that are worried that he can't.
That doesn't make anyone a "turncoat", just a concerned Spurs fan.

Stupid, unnecessarily inflammatory post.

There's a huge difference between being a concerned spurs fan and being a bed wetting knee-jerker who almost take joy in being hyper critical of a guy who's given his all for the last 6 years. We gave Arsenal shit for the way they treated Wenger the last couple seasons and some of our fans were the same way towards Poch after a few bad results.

If you don't think there are people on here who take some sort of sick satisfaction from watching it burn to the ground then go back a few pages in this thread.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Maybe it's a case that we shouldn't look to see who should take the brunt of the blame but appreciate given our circumstances that sooner or later the situation was going to end up happening. Levy had longer term plans where we were going to build long term to be a top club and arguably was right not to sacrifice the long term for the sake of the short term. We hit gold by signing a manager who has managed to get the absolute most out of his squad and limited resources whilst also lucking our by having an incredible one in a billion striking talent come through our youth ranks. Unfortunately our managers style is dependant on motivation and squeezing players and needs fairly consistent turnover as there's nothing left to squeeze out of players after a certain amount of time. We weren't in a position to produce that turnover and a few of our players have decided it's time to move on but couldn't get the deals they wanted.

Now when things start to go wrong, suddenly being asked to do the running becomes annoying and the things you bought into before now frustrate you, hopefully we can turn the tide and those things start to make sense to the players again but it won't be a consistent upward trend, we'll have bumps in the road. Levy and Poch need to take responsibility sure and what's more they've made a lot of mistakes but as I say maybe looking for where to lay the blame is the wrong course of action.

Also if this is the case then do you think Poch's style and tactical ability is still good enough or the right one to carry us forwards, I think it can be but its perhaps clear now that the squad dynamic and players being bought into his way of playing is so key compared to say a Pep or Klopp where they're proven quality top top winner managers, Poch is clearly a very talented manager but as we don;t have man city budgets and whilst Poch is not a 'genius' like Pep then it is vital that the squad he has is relatively young and hungry to buy into his way of playing, otherwise as you say after 5 years of the 'running' it becomes a pain and motivating the players is difficult.

I do also think that whilst as you say this situation was going to happen sooner rather than later and whilst its not a 'crisis' it may take a season or so to sort it out BUT I do think Poch has to take a bit of responsibility for persisting with the diamond and for being constantly negative and non-committal in the media as I don't think either of those things have helped our cause during the last 9 months or so.

 

[TheAmerican]

I wonder what the ITKs think of this

Quotes like that don’t matter. No right minded player will go against their current manager in the media. Trippier was quiet while here yet he appeared to have some choice words once he was gone.

 

[Shadydan]

We heard similar last week in that Athletic article, players are behind him but they are spent and the hunger has gone.

 

[ClintEastwould]

Quotes like that don’t matter. No right minded player will go against their current manager in the media. Trippier was quiet while hear yet he appeared to have some choice words once he was gone.

That quote sounds less like a sound bite and more like his own opinion though

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I am speaking from my heart! I have gone on record saying how much I want him to listen and turn it around. I didn’t expect this selection, tactics, and performance. The scores one is great, but for me performance was impressive.

spot on, it was the performance that was key. The energy and movement and pressing and speed of passing we've not seen that for a few years to be honest. It was refreshing and a delight to watch

 

[SpartanSpur]

Maybe it's a case that we shouldn't look to see who should take the brunt of the blame but appreciate given our circumstances that sooner or later the situation was going to end up happening. Levy had longer term plans where we were going to build long term to be a top club and arguably was right not to sacrifice the long term for the sake of the short term. We hit gold by signing a manager who has managed to get the absolute most out of his squad and limited resources whilst also lucking our by having an incredible one in a billion striking talent come through our youth ranks. Unfortunately our managers style is dependant on motivation and squeezing players and needs fairly consistent turnover as there's nothing left to squeeze out of players after a certain amount of time. We weren't in a position to produce that turnover and a few of our players have decided it's time to move on but couldn't get the deals they wanted.

Now when things start to go wrong, suddenly being asked to do the running becomes annoying and the things you bought into before now frustrate you, hopefully we can turn the tide and those things start to make sense to the players again but it won't be a consistent upward trend, we'll have bumps in the road. Levy and Poch need to take responsibility sure and what's more they've made a lot of mistakes but as I say maybe looking for where to lay the blame is the wrong course of action.

Yeah I agree with this. Long road ahead.

If blame is to be apportioned it is going to end up in a lot of places (Levy, Poch, Players, Agents). Let's hope all 3 can get on the same page going forward, and prove last night was indeed a turning point and not a fluke. COYS.

 

[wrd]

Yeah I agree with this. Long road ahead.

If blame is to be apportioned it is going to end up in a lot of places (Levy, Poch, Players, Agents). Let's hope all 3 can get on the same page going forward, and prove last night was indeed a turning point and not a fluke. COYS.

Yeah I just fucking hate blame culture as typically it looks to try and find a scapegoat, I much prefer the notion of people taking responsibility as taking responsibility tends to lead to the action of putting things right and quite rightly the majority of responsibility is with those who make the decisions.

 

[Lighty64]

Please oh football oracle tell me how the team we played vs Watford was better equipped to break down a defensive side? Back 3 and Winks/Sissoko when the opponent is sitting off? Playing Rose ahead of Davies when Rose was coming off a shocker for England and is clearly unsettled? Leaving our best progressive passer on the bench alongside our highest scorer at the new stadium? Playing Moura up top against a low block when it's been proven to be ineffective and affect Harry's game? Poch didn't cover himself in glory in hindsight.

he played Rose because Davies played both games for Wales, and he wants his fb/wb fresh as possible or haven't you noticed this pattern the last 5 and a bit seasons.

why he played 5 at the back I don't know, he does it every time we play Watford.

yet Moura has that little bit of trickery to go past players, where Lamela doesn't. just because it didn't work, it doesn't mean on another day it won't. Watford have a new manager, and have just had a clear 2 weeks to work on what they were doing wrong with their players not being involved in internationals.


Red Star were poor and open but Brighton played us on the front foot too and we had no answer. Even if Watford played defensively the levels of energy and application were far superior today than they have been for months (barring brief spells vs Palace and Bayern). Plenty of movement from kick off whereas most were hiding on Saturday.

I watched Brighton away to Newcastle, and saw they were a completely different style compared to last season. when they played us they took the lead on the 3rd minute due to a mistake by Lloris. Not only did he suffer an injury he was suffering from a hell of a lot of pain. Now don't get me wrong but if while I was working 1 of my best friends and work colleagues was badly hurt I doubt I would be able to concentrate fully afterward.

last night the movement was quicker, because when we got into attacking areas or even their half we had players unmarked and space to move the ball to quicker. when you're attacking 10 men behind the ball, there is less space to pass quickly and players are tightly marked.


As for early goals, we spent most of 18-19 coming from behind in the majority of games because of various mitigating factors and the fact this team has really struggled to adopt Poch's tweak to a 3 man midfield/diamond. This team shouldn't be fazed by that. Low confidence is a factor but still, we were at home against a struggling side on Saturday. No excuses with the squad at our disposal.

as I said higher up, Watford was struggling with their old manager. this new manager has had a month with 2 weeks to sort it out.


It's not as simple as just the pace of the game. We've been told by ITK and even some of the players that they are unhappy and confused with the diamond. We've heard from numerous sources that there are unsettled players. The naked eye can see there have been clear confidence issues with the players and what they've been asked to do. Red Star were an accommodating opponent but Poch finally reverted to a setup the players are comfortable with, with more of the committed players starting (including the likes of Son, Ndombele and Davies I mentioned above), and the result was a clear improvement in all facets of the game. I fully stand by my post that you are attacking.

Poch has a history of picking his teams from how they have trained, and will usually rotate FB/WB's providing he has cover. after being forced last season to play the same 11 week in, week out and lose the intensity in our game, Poch will always rotate. I hope he continues to leave Rose, and Toby out (after last night I wished we had cover for Jan. was the worst player out there, didn't seem fully focused)

Talking down to people is a real shitty trait, unless you have some UEFA pro licences or a professional career to back yourself up (and even then still a dick move).

I'm not talking down, I'm trying to understand how people don't take things in to account ie...... the effects of seeing your mate stretchered off, or to think a new manager can get his defence sorted. or sometimes you just don't get the bounce of the ball and a mistake cost you a goal.

we are going through a spell this season where nothing is going our way. if the ref gives us a penalty when Son was fouled we most probably go on to beat Newcastle. If Rose clears the ball up field instead of committing hari kari v Arsenal, we go in 2-0 up and have the momentum in the 2nd half, though still believe Kane should have had a pen at the end. if Son's goal v Leicester isn't given offside we win that. yes we had luck v Man C and on Saturday (but could have had a penalty ourselves)

 

[Metalhead]

Quotes like that don’t matter. No right minded player will go against their current manager in the media. Trippier was quiet while here yet he appeared to have some choice words once he was gone.

Well, I would say that Alli did sound pretty genuine in his choice of words but at the end of the day, we should all try and get away from taking pot shots at each other.

 

[Fidget]

It’s fine recognising issues and discussing how best to move on from them. But the constant rewriting and downplaying of Poch’s achievements and blood thirst for Levy to pull the trigger is uncalled for. The only reason the team has reached such a consistently high level is down to the manager. Levy was always looking for a manager who could improve individuals and get the collective playing at a level above the sum of its parts. Poch has been the only manager in recent times who has done that. So why at the first sign of trouble is there such a clamour to bin him? We know rebuilding a squad is one of the hardest things to do in football. The manager has been unlucky that 2 of his major signings to refresh the team have been injured. Surely knowing the level Poch can get the team playing at we give him time? He’s earned that surely?

I really shouldn’t come into this thread.

Yeah but to be fair the first sign of trouble was January.

 

[stonebrow]

I wonder what the ITKs think of this

He wasn’t going to say anything else really was he?!

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Yeah I agree with this. Long road ahead.

If blame is to be apportioned it is going to end up in a lot of places (Levy, Poch, Players, Agents). Let's hope all 3 can get on the same page going forward, and prove last night was indeed a turning point and not a fluke. COYS.

this.

 

[markiespurs]

spot on, it was the performance that was key. The energy and movement and pressing and speed of passing we've not seen that for a few years to be honest. It was refreshing and a delight to watch

I was delighted last night with everything you mentioned above

Another thing I did notice last night was that Poch looked more positive and energetic, spending most of the game on his feet in the technical area rather than brooding in his chair.

 

[Lighty64]

Haha yes i love this a debate i can pick holes in

Firstly having played football at a decent level myself and having also been a ST holder for over 25 years i'd certainly say I 'understand football' LOL!

Yes not conceding an early goal and scoring one makes a difference but fundamentally the tactics (4-2-3-1), energy and pressing and fluidity were much more like how we played under Poch the season we battled Leicester for the title. We've played well in a few games this season such as Leicester away and Palace and others but a lot of those games we've used the diamond and also picked a combination of players that lacks balance and has players not playing in their most suited positions, last night we put round pegs in round holes and used a formation and style of play that the players are comfortable with! (Just as the ITK's have been alluding to: @Trix @Hercules @Grey Fox )- the players were mostly unhappy with the formation and roles they were being asked to do, yesterday you had sissoko sitting, N'dombele slightly ahead in the Dembele role, Lamela RM, Son LM, Dele CAM and Kane ST and surprise surprise we played the best football we have for at least 12 months.

Also that was not a dig about Aurier I simply said that we picked a team with players mainly who we want to keep or who don't want to leave (It has been very well reported that either the club wants to get rid of or the players themselves want to leave in the case of : Rose, Toby, Eriksen and Aurier), in fact if you look back at my posts i've always actually very heavily backed Aurier and said he's a vastly better player than KWP and currently with this squad is our best RB option so you've completely missinterpreted or missunderstood what I meant when i said 'indifferent' I meant that he and the club were a bit indifferent about his future e.g. if we can find him the right club he may go but if not then we're happy to keep him.

Onwards and upwards. COYS.

why are you bringing @Grey Fox into this, I haven't seen him post in here for ages and I mean hardly this season. the other ITK has been @ValenciaYid

if I put a load of milk crates and made it an obstacle course the pace would drop off, when you have 16 men parked in 1 third of the pitch there is less room to run into. the idea of the press is to force a player to pass it quicker and more likely to make an error and lose possession. when there are so many players in 1 error the press causes fewer errors because the player being pressed only needs to make a short pass.

Hercules said in the summer we were looking at playing a different setup, with Dier and Wanyama injured and Ndombele getting used to the pace we have tried a different way because we haven't got the DM to play that role. yesterday we had Sissoko sitting in that role, but other games he hasn't done that nor has Winks. most of the start of this season we haven't had Alli, Lamela has to be taken care of, we have had injury problems with RB, and an unfit Davies.

last night Kane wasn't tightly marked, and gave him the space he thrives in. in the premier he is a marked man especially when playing a team sitting 10 behind the ball. there will always be someone to mark him, accept Palace

 

[Fidget]

There's a huge difference between being a concerned spurs fan and being a bed wetting knee-jerker who almost take joy in being hyper critical of a guy who's given his all for the last 6 years. We gave Arsenal shit for the way they treated Wenger the last couple seasons and some of our fans were the same way towards Poch after a few bad results.

If you don't think there are people on here who take some sort of sick satisfaction from watching it burn to the ground then go back a few pages in this thread.

You see, I’m sorry but this just isn’t what’s going on, is it? “A few bad results”, doesn’t really cut it and I think you need to look back at our results since end of January. I don’t bloody take “some sort of sick satisfaction”, I’ve followed Spurs for all of my 57 years and gone through worse times than this.
As John Cleese once said, “It’s not the despair that I can’t deal with, It’s the hope”! We’ve seen the team getting closer and closer to a team we’ve dreamt of supporting, only to see it all falling apart before our eyes and that’s what hurts. 90% of the time in sport, when this happens, it needs new management to look at things from a different angle. All of the best managers fail and will fail at some stage, because their dream has ended.
Ok, I’ll give that things look (a little) rosier after last night............but then there’s that hope.
I can wait till Sunday and look at things after that but then next bad run as long as this bad run, won’t evenbe allowed to happen. That’s just the way life is.

 

[SpartanSpur]

@Lighty64

You make some valid points out there for sure. I agree with and have seen a lot of what you mentioned above (FB rotation/ back 3 vs Watford - which IMO used to be to deal with Gray and Deeney, however on Sat they ended up with no ST at all) I think saying 'people know nothing about football' is a funny way of trying to understand things however. Not sure how else you can dress that up.

I don't think you can just brush everything off as circumstances or bad luck either. I did that last season, clung on to it in fact during our awful run in, but the last few weeks were the tipping point for me. Everything I was seeing on the pitch, everything I was reading from ITKs and the snippets in the press all pointed to things being broken behind the scenes all seemed to point to the end. At some point you just have to accept that the club (Poch, Levy, Players) are playing their part, not just lady luck. I didn't think Poch could recover after the last two (still might not) but for me I finally saw Poch do what I hoped and the result was the most enjoyable Spurs performance in a long time. Kane was a joy to watch. Hence my post last night. I'd finally seen Poch do what @Hercules and @Trix had suggested he was too stubborn to do. I hope it continues.

As for Lloris there's been other situations where teams have upped their game in that situation. I'd have hoped when they've just been hammered 7-2 at home and all spoken about bouncing back they would do that. Some of that is on me I suppose, I was hoping for a reaction vs Brighton and Watford and ended up seeing two dreadful performances.

I hope Poch can turns things around, I really do. End of the day all I want is for Spurs to play well and win things, like everyone else here.

 

[Japhet]

I was delighted last night with everything you mentioned above

Another thing I did notice last night was that Poch looked more positive and energetic, spending most of the game on his feet in the technical area rather than brooding in his chair.

Probably as a direct result of what was happening on the pitch.