The Deadline Day ITK Discussion Thread - 1st September

[nicdic]

Everyone could do with dialling things down occasionally (including me) but since we are here you could also take your own advice. As someone you have been interacting with I wouldn’t say I am ‘tightly wound’ or even anti-Levy - I’m old enough to remember a bad levy season was a good season in the 90s so know it can be a lot worse. But that didn’t stop you from telling me I shouldn’t believe Ange’s own statements about wanting a CB plus the ITK about him being unhappy as that’s feeding my own bias.

Personally, I just call things as I see them on individual issues, and I think Levy has always been bad at managing outs and has always tended to do the minimum required to be top 4 competitive on the ins. To give credit where it’s due our recruitment in terms of player quality over the last couple of years has been excellent. Let’s hope the kids aren’t needed and/or are great if required as there is nothing more fun in football than seeing a youngster come through and perform

I'm sure the crit aimed back at me is fair, and I'm willing to take that on the chin.

I'm not telling you to not believe Ange saying he wants or wanted another cb, I believe him, we clearly want and need one! I'm just not one to take the ITK at face value. I appreciate what they say, I'm just conscious that we (I have no greater insight into their sources as an Admin here), don't know where exactly the comments come from. They are passing through at least one person before we read them, and a person's own biases or whatever are going to find their way in to what's being passed on as well. I just will always encourage taking a huge pinch of salt with anything that comes from ITKs, in the same way I would with what we read in the media too.

I'm on the same page as everyone else in regard to us being left a bit short, can't argue that isn't true, and cannot argue that it would have been better to have an extra centre back. But I personally, won't be drawing hard and fast conclusions on the behaviour of Levy, his relationships with staff, and Ange's personal opinion about things from ITK posts.

 

[nicdic]

Sorry for being slow but 2nd line said he was happy but last line seems to say he isn't?

And this is a part of the point I'm trying to make about clarity of what's being said.

 

[Flashp]

I do not want to say much. Ange was happy on how we conducted our transfers. He wanted one more CB in, who could also play LB. Kelly was seen as a deal we could do. Had we offered what Bournemouth wanted he would have been here. Not about year left. Daniel wanted to move Sanchez on first. He was not keen on PEH going, as he felt we didn’t have the cover, and again ideal players he would have wanted Daniel was not sure if he could spin it.

The difference between Ange and Conte, he will keep his emotions in-house. But if you believe he was happy, you are very much wrong.

Schrödingers Ange

 

[Thenewcat]

I'm sure the crit aimed back at me is fair, and I'm willing to take that on the chin.

I'm not telling you to not believe Ange saying he wants or wanted another cb, I believe him, we clearly want and need one! I'm just not one to take the ITK at face value. I appreciate what they say, I'm just conscious that we (I have no greater insight into their sources as an Admin here), don't know where exactly the comments come from. They are passing through at least one person before we read them, and a person's own biases or whatever are going to find their way in to what's being passed on as well. I just will always encourage taking a huge pinch of salt with anything that comes from ITKs, in the same way I would with what we read in the media too.

I'm on the same page as everyone else in regard to us being left a bit short, can't argue that isn't true, and cannot argue that it would have been better to have an extra centre back. But I personally, won't be drawing hard and fast conclusions on the behaviour of Levy, his relationships with staff, and Ange's personal opinion about things from ITK posts.

I think ITK is most interesting for what it tells about how the club operates and what they are planning. I always say if you want to know for sure who’s coming or going follow spurs on Twitter or go to the homepage…. That said any itk even though given in good faith goes through multiple hands and is (usually) about what is hoped not what is going to happen so your point has some merit. But in this case every piece of ITK and what’s in public lines up - we wanted a CB and didn’t get one because Levy wanted to sell Sanchez first (and is very bad at selling) so totally fair to call him out IMO. This sort of thing shouldn’t be an issue - the window is open for 8 weeks

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

If people stopped forensically examining every fucking full stop and comma as if what we're being told is gospel, it's help you 'understand' it better. Just take it on board, shrug and move on. Most info comes through multiple hands before arrival so we've no idea on context and all that

Right now it's taken literally and then applied even more literally to other aspects or info and you end up somewhere completely different.

Fuck me. Stop treating ITK like it's something carved on a tablet like the ten commandments and use the salt shaker a lot more.

And god, how I ache for the good old days when ITK was just about players instead of anything and everything up to and including how many weetabix Levy had for breakfast.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

And i'll add that sometimes stuff gets casually worded by our ITK's without a thought given to how closely each word, it's meaning and possible sub meaning gets scrutinised by the teal leaf readers on SC. Or they'll repeat something verbatim and even though they aren't their own words, well, we all know what happens next..........Then people put their own interpretation/doubts and whatever else onto it. It's not good for anyone or anything.

We get some fucking good info on here and it's constantly being subjected to a negative atmosphere because 'clever' people think they've found an angle.

 

[Breezer]

If people stopped forensically examining every fucking full stop and comma as if what we're being told is gospel, it's help you 'understand' it better. Just take it on board, shrug and move on. Most info comes through multiple hands before arrival so we've no idea on context and all that

Right now it's taken literally and then applied even more literally to other aspects or info and you end up somewhere completely different.

Fuck me. Stop treating ITK like it's something carved on a tablet like the ten commandments and use the salt shaker a lot more.

And god, how I ache for the good old days when ITK was just about players instead of anything and everything up to and including how many weetabix Levy had for breakfast.

He definitely hasn’t eaten his weetabix! F****r!

 

[Oscar22]

Now A&C… he’s “Raging”.

 

[thecook]

I can't tell if A&C is happy or not.

 

[Trix]

I'll also add most of the stuff(nearly all of it in fact) is not just coming from one POV. In fact it's coming from multiple sources. Nearly everything posted on the forum is posted back of house first and confirmed by others(even by ITK that don't post much at all) and in some cases it's even added to. So just like everyone's favourite journalist is double checking his info the same is basically done here.

I'm not sure who it was that said Ange was "raging" but it's definitely the general consensus that he wasn't happy with not getting a CB. Yeah he's happy in general with how we have done within the context of how much we needed to do, but he's well aware we are limping through to January CB wise as we currently stand. That said we have all seen it before that through adversity comes opportunity, and there is every chance that the likes of Phillips, now being relied on could really step up and even save us some money.

It's one hell of a gamble though and Ange would 100% have preferred another body in.

 

[wrd]

I'm sure the crit aimed back at me is fair, and I'm willing to take that on the chin.

I'm not telling you to not believe Ange saying he wants or wanted another cb, I believe him, we clearly want and need one! I'm just not one to take the ITK at face value. I appreciate what they say, I'm just conscious that we (I have no greater insight into their sources as an Admin here), don't know where exactly the comments come from. They are passing through at least one person before we read them, and a person's own biases or whatever are going to find their way in to what's being passed on as well. I just will always encourage taking a huge pinch of salt with anything that comes from ITKs, in the same way I would with what we read in the media too.

I'm on the same page as everyone else in regard to us being left a bit short, can't argue that isn't true, and cannot argue that it would have been better to have an extra centre back. But I personally, won't be drawing hard and fast conclusions on the behaviour of Levy, his relationships with staff, and Ange's personal opinion about things from ITK posts.

I'll give you credit mate, I think through the summer it may have felt we were of opposing sides but I think you've argued your opinions strong all summer, not easy to stay on point when you're up against it but I think you've been very good for having the conversation move forward and I think when somebody challenges your views in such a compelling way, you are forced to doubt your convictions in a healthy way and if they pass through that introspection, it forces you to articulate yourself better. So I'm very grateful for how you've approached things and it's clear to me that when this happens, we all see that we agree with eachother way more than disagree and it moves things forward.

 

[Hercules]

Sorry for being slow but 2nd line said he was happy but last line seems to say he isn't?

Overall he was happy, but not with the CB situation. He expected another (LCB who could play LB) to come in (Kelly).

 

[carpediem991]

I think most of us agree another CB was much needed, I am glad Ange also has this view.

Guess all we can do for now is hoping vdV and Romero don't get injured until January and that Phillips can step up if needed. Personally would have liked to see him against Fulham or 20 minutes against Burnley to get a first impression, if he can deal with the occasion.

 

[DJS]

Shame Levy didn’t sign Kelly because Sanchez was still here, only to then sell Sanchez after our window closed but Levy gonna Levy eh…

Hopefully we’ll now push hard for Kelly in january, but would have been much better to have gotten him in this summer, which again shows concerns no matter how good our manage is they’re always being constrained a little.

Although we have shifted out Sanchez permanently and Tanganga on loan and hopefully will find something permanent for him, whilst also looking to let Dier leave next summer at end of contract so hopefully we’ll finally be looking to really shore up our centre back options in next two windows.

Just a shame we seem to do this the hard way at times e.g. not getting Kelly in and leaving ourselves quite thin in defence.

 

[TheHodFather]

Overall he was happy, but not with the CB situation. He expected another (LCB who could play LB) to come in (Kelly).

I like the fact that he specifically wants players who can play more than one position. I've often thought we'd be better off if we had a smaller squad of more versatile players. That way the player budget gets spread less thinly (so you should be able to afford better quality) and everybody gets more minutes on the pitch.

 

[nicdic]

I'll give you credit mate, I think through the summer it may have felt we were of opposing sides but I think you've argued your opinions strong all summer, not easy to stay on point when you're up against it but I think you've been very good for having the conversation move forward and I think when somebody challenges your views in such a compelling way, you are forced to doubt your convictions in a healthy way and if they pass through that introspection, it forces you to articulate yourself better. So I'm very grateful for how you've approached things and it's clear to me that when this happens, we all see that we agree with eachother way more than disagree and it moves things forward.

Appreciate that mate.

 

[Living Legend Colm G]

Well it was 30 years ago!

The year we were 1st linked to Leandro Damaio

 

[jpascavitz]

I just really hope we get that plan in place for Jan for a CB at the least. It wouldn't surprise me if we decided to revisit the Gallagher situation as well depending on how Bentancur is doing healthwise

Thanks to all the ITK all window, was an exciting one.

 

[Joshua]

When it's worded like this I agree, but I'm really not sure that it's helpful to post things like "by all accounts he's not happy" or "he's fuming" because it's inciting an already pretty tightly wound crowd that will jump on any single thing to take further aim at Levy.

To be clear, I don't disagree that Levy has his faults, I don't disagree that we are short. I don't disagree that we should have got in another centre back, even if we kept Sanchez. I would just love for the ITKs, and you yourself Rob, to be a little bit more responsible with the way that things are posted.

I think mods/ITK’s sometimes pass on information through the filters of their emotional reaction to what they receive, which is fine imo cause a lot of the time our reaction would be the same. I.E Ange has been left short at centre back, that is really frustrating, we’re all allowed to be frustrated about that and criticise the person responsible. But it also means as readers we have to have the emotional intelligence to understand that. I also think sugar coating information to try and negate a certain type of reaction isn’t helpful either. If they’ve heard Ange is angry, why shouldn’t we be told that Ange is angry?

 

[HildoSpur]

Overall he was happy.

That is really all that matters. I agree with @nicdic that sometimes people need to be a bit more considered with the wording of posts and ensure that the full picture is given rather than just a small part. Saying he was 'raging' is inflamatory - saying he was 'raging at not getting another CB in but overall happy with what we did' is an entirely different thing altogether. Context is extremely important.