Greenspur
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But he didn't score 20 goals.
The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - Or is it? 28th July 2014
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But he didn't score 20 goals.
- Feb 1, 2005
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A small window into the attention span of the average SC'er has just opened 
panties
has a nine incher
- Mar 13, 2014
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Taken this from a supposed Saints ITK - bolded the important bit but it's all interesting. (imo)
Crab Lungs
Full Member
Join Date
Nov 2006
Location
Southampton, United Kingdom
Posts
6,577
I've taken a lot of stick on here for my viewpoint over the past few months... That's fine, I can accept that but now can any of you finally see what's happening here? I've PM'd some people on here with some of the stuff that I have been told already and there's plenty more to come. I'm part tempted to blab it all out now as, just as I was typing a PM to someone today the JR and MS story broke... and that was what was the content of my PM - the future of those two. Oh well, lost some ITK credibility there. Seriously though, I haven't enjoyed any of this happening and I can safely say that those worried have a damn good reason to worry.
So, onto the juicy stuff... I'll try do this in sections and keep updating it as I go...
Cortese Leaving/Direction Of Club
Anyway, you may not like to hear this but yes, everything went to complete sh1t when Cortese left. It was never "business as usual". The figurehead who sold the club to Lovren, Osvaldo, Wanyama and the other ambitious members of our existing squad took all the drive and ambition with him. Like him or not, he wanted to push us further and the players believed in that vision, that's what motivated them to join or in some cases, stay when they could have moved on a lot sooner.
The official line is that KL wanted NC to have more accountability to his actions - that's fair enough. After all, it's technically her club and her money. The relationship between the two had been fraught for a while with NC wanted to go in one direction and KL, maintaining a small interest in football matters but a larger one in financial matters wanting to go another. Evidently, this would only lead with a parting of ways and one winner whilst ourselves and Cortese are left as the losers in this whole sorry saga. Oh, and Les Reed is doing alright, too - then again, he was never going to rock the boat with the cushy number he had. "Yes Kat, no Kat, three bags full Kat".
The appointment of Krueger has spectacularly backfired - he was meant to be the figurehead who "talked the talk" whilst quietly, behind the scenes, things were being scaled down and the goalposts shifting. As soon as NC left, it was never our intention to "walk the walk" too - only to allude to it whilst slowly dampening and managing fans expectations. As Guan said, he was reeled back in and Reed was wheeled back out. To be honest though, it doesn't matter who releases statements now as it's been proven - it's all bullsh1t.
Finances
I need to underline something else... there is nothing wrong with the club financially. The term that Hofstetter used was to discredit NC and NC hasn't released anything into the media about players leaving or tried to unsettle them. They did have a lot of respect for him and wholly supported the direction of the club under his tenure. NC did that interview after he left because he knew what was coming.
We are one of the healthiest clubs in the Premier League and even more so now to the detriment of our playing squad. We won't hugely over budget with the training ground and yes, NC was carefree with the cash during his time here but despite this, we were in healthy, normal position. It's not a Pompey or Leeds situation and the wage budget sits well within the structure. We've not been overstretching nor were careless with managing them. We were absolutely fine and in a position to add to our squad after an equal best-placed finish under Pochettino last year.
Possible Sale Of Club
I don't know for sure but it's rumoured that KL wants to make up the difference in her valuation with player sales... whether that's the case, I'm not sure but no-one was willing to pay the asking price over the last few months so a reduced price might see a few interested parties come to the table. Once she's stripped the club bare and reinvested the bare minimum, that is, to keep us whatever is viewed as "competitive".
Adam Lallana
Adam, as club captain, asked numerous times on behalf of himself and the players about the plans for this season from Feb/March onwards. Everyone wanted to know for sure that the "project" was still alive. At first he was told "everything will carry on as normal" as if Cortese was still there. Quietly, the scenery was shifting and Adam and the players recognised this. In addition to this, the situation surrounding the managers future also compounded matters and it wasn't before long that the squad began to wonder what was going on and what direction the club was going in.
Adam did try but like everyone else, failed to get a conclusive answer to his questions. Towards the end of last season, he'd already been lined up to join United but with Moyes being sacked that deal fell through. Later, Liverpool's interest surface and despite AL's attempts to deal with the situation maturely he was messed around and he left on a very sour note. That was never his intention, likewise it was never the intention of Lovren, too. In fact, none of the players were particularly itching for a move until Cortese, then Pochettino left and the whole continuation of the "project" was left clouded in mystery.
Players (ex and soon to be ex-players)
There are no clauses in any of the players contracts. They requested to leave - why though?
In January, the club were well aware of the Shaw interest and were already in discussions with potential suitors. This was to be the ONLY planned sale under Cortese and preparation for the new season was already being discussed between NC, MP and other staff.
With the plummeting depth in morale due to a lack of communication from the top about the directions and ambitions of the club, the players obviously talked amongst themselves and saw no future here unless they got reassurances. Like Adam, they got lip service if they were lucky or nothing at all. You only have to look back at previous comments in the press from the players over the past few months where they're hinting that they didn't know what was going on and that they'd be happy to stay if the club focus and ambition was still the same. Instead, they got silence.
That said, there are many factors in their decisions to leave and in some cases, intrinsically linked. The Pochettino effect, clubs direction, suitors and possibility of European football, raises in salary BUT it's worth knowing that before Cortese left, all were very settled and happy and many were contented with the progress being made. Sure, they were ambitious but that ambition simply mirrored that of their chairman and manager. To keep them, we'd have to align our ambitions with theirs and we didn't.
Make no mistake, apart from Shaw and the sentimental sale of Lambert (who, incidentally, wanted to finish his career here otherwise), many of the sales and impending sales were avoidable. How? By matching their ambitions. By retaining their teammates. By retaining and backing the popular manager first and foremost would have given us the best possible opportunity to keep a hold of those players.
I was just typing a PM today to someone about the J-Rod, Schneiderlin situation when the news broke but yes, they're next and won't be the last.
The morale of the team was further damaged by the outgoings after Shaw's sale and with the lack of the communication about the direction of the club many decided they'd have enough. As mentioned before, their ambitions aligned with that of the previous chairman and without the same drive/figurehead/ambition as previous then it was only natural they'd instruct their agents to look elsewhere. The treatment some of the players received during the period where potential suitors were circling was shambolic, too. The board acted amateurishly, refusing to take calls from players and making it as difficult as possible to communicate with them about the clubs intentions. The whole trust relationship broke down unsurprisingly and that's we've had what seems like toys being thrown out the pram. It wasn't. It was the frustration seeping out of the players at the club after many months of not-knowing.
Yes, Cortese really was the glue that kept it all together.
Worth taking notice that despite all the hatred towards the outgoing players, how gracious have they all been since they left, including Pochettino. Most have all thanked the fans and the club for their time and memories and in the case of our home-grown players, the development of them as players. They'll remain classy as they were brought up "The Southampton Way" - the sad thing is, there is no way any more.
TBC
Crab Lungs
Join Date
Nov 2006
Location
Southampton, United Kingdom
Posts
6,577
I've taken a lot of stick on here for my viewpoint over the past few months... That's fine, I can accept that but now can any of you finally see what's happening here? I've PM'd some people on here with some of the stuff that I have been told already and there's plenty more to come. I'm part tempted to blab it all out now as, just as I was typing a PM to someone today the JR and MS story broke... and that was what was the content of my PM - the future of those two. Oh well, lost some ITK credibility there. Seriously though, I haven't enjoyed any of this happening and I can safely say that those worried have a damn good reason to worry.
So, onto the juicy stuff... I'll try do this in sections and keep updating it as I go...
Cortese Leaving/Direction Of Club
Anyway, you may not like to hear this but yes, everything went to complete sh1t when Cortese left. It was never "business as usual". The figurehead who sold the club to Lovren, Osvaldo, Wanyama and the other ambitious members of our existing squad took all the drive and ambition with him. Like him or not, he wanted to push us further and the players believed in that vision, that's what motivated them to join or in some cases, stay when they could have moved on a lot sooner.
The official line is that KL wanted NC to have more accountability to his actions - that's fair enough. After all, it's technically her club and her money. The relationship between the two had been fraught for a while with NC wanted to go in one direction and KL, maintaining a small interest in football matters but a larger one in financial matters wanting to go another. Evidently, this would only lead with a parting of ways and one winner whilst ourselves and Cortese are left as the losers in this whole sorry saga. Oh, and Les Reed is doing alright, too - then again, he was never going to rock the boat with the cushy number he had. "Yes Kat, no Kat, three bags full Kat".
The appointment of Krueger has spectacularly backfired - he was meant to be the figurehead who "talked the talk" whilst quietly, behind the scenes, things were being scaled down and the goalposts shifting. As soon as NC left, it was never our intention to "walk the walk" too - only to allude to it whilst slowly dampening and managing fans expectations. As Guan said, he was reeled back in and Reed was wheeled back out. To be honest though, it doesn't matter who releases statements now as it's been proven - it's all bullsh1t.
Finances
I need to underline something else... there is nothing wrong with the club financially. The term that Hofstetter used was to discredit NC and NC hasn't released anything into the media about players leaving or tried to unsettle them. They did have a lot of respect for him and wholly supported the direction of the club under his tenure. NC did that interview after he left because he knew what was coming.
We are one of the healthiest clubs in the Premier League and even more so now to the detriment of our playing squad. We won't hugely over budget with the training ground and yes, NC was carefree with the cash during his time here but despite this, we were in healthy, normal position. It's not a Pompey or Leeds situation and the wage budget sits well within the structure. We've not been overstretching nor were careless with managing them. We were absolutely fine and in a position to add to our squad after an equal best-placed finish under Pochettino last year.
Possible Sale Of Club
I don't know for sure but it's rumoured that KL wants to make up the difference in her valuation with player sales... whether that's the case, I'm not sure but no-one was willing to pay the asking price over the last few months so a reduced price might see a few interested parties come to the table. Once she's stripped the club bare and reinvested the bare minimum, that is, to keep us whatever is viewed as "competitive".
Adam Lallana
Adam, as club captain, asked numerous times on behalf of himself and the players about the plans for this season from Feb/March onwards. Everyone wanted to know for sure that the "project" was still alive. At first he was told "everything will carry on as normal" as if Cortese was still there. Quietly, the scenery was shifting and Adam and the players recognised this. In addition to this, the situation surrounding the managers future also compounded matters and it wasn't before long that the squad began to wonder what was going on and what direction the club was going in.
Adam did try but like everyone else, failed to get a conclusive answer to his questions. Towards the end of last season, he'd already been lined up to join United but with Moyes being sacked that deal fell through. Later, Liverpool's interest surface and despite AL's attempts to deal with the situation maturely he was messed around and he left on a very sour note. That was never his intention, likewise it was never the intention of Lovren, too. In fact, none of the players were particularly itching for a move until Cortese, then Pochettino left and the whole continuation of the "project" was left clouded in mystery.
Players (ex and soon to be ex-players)
There are no clauses in any of the players contracts. They requested to leave - why though?
In January, the club were well aware of the Shaw interest and were already in discussions with potential suitors. This was to be the ONLY planned sale under Cortese and preparation for the new season was already being discussed between NC, MP and other staff.
With the plummeting depth in morale due to a lack of communication from the top about the directions and ambitions of the club, the players obviously talked amongst themselves and saw no future here unless they got reassurances. Like Adam, they got lip service if they were lucky or nothing at all. You only have to look back at previous comments in the press from the players over the past few months where they're hinting that they didn't know what was going on and that they'd be happy to stay if the club focus and ambition was still the same. Instead, they got silence.
That said, there are many factors in their decisions to leave and in some cases, intrinsically linked. The Pochettino effect, clubs direction, suitors and possibility of European football, raises in salary BUT it's worth knowing that before Cortese left, all were very settled and happy and many were contented with the progress being made. Sure, they were ambitious but that ambition simply mirrored that of their chairman and manager. To keep them, we'd have to align our ambitions with theirs and we didn't.
Make no mistake, apart from Shaw and the sentimental sale of Lambert (who, incidentally, wanted to finish his career here otherwise), many of the sales and impending sales were avoidable. How? By matching their ambitions. By retaining their teammates. By retaining and backing the popular manager first and foremost would have given us the best possible opportunity to keep a hold of those players.
I was just typing a PM today to someone about the J-Rod, Schneiderlin situation when the news broke but yes, they're next and won't be the last.
The morale of the team was further damaged by the outgoings after Shaw's sale and with the lack of the communication about the direction of the club many decided they'd have enough. As mentioned before, their ambitions aligned with that of the previous chairman and without the same drive/figurehead/ambition as previous then it was only natural they'd instruct their agents to look elsewhere. The treatment some of the players received during the period where potential suitors were circling was shambolic, too. The board acted amateurishly, refusing to take calls from players and making it as difficult as possible to communicate with them about the clubs intentions. The whole trust relationship broke down unsurprisingly and that's we've had what seems like toys being thrown out the pram. It wasn't. It was the frustration seeping out of the players at the club after many months of not-knowing.
Yes, Cortese really was the glue that kept it all together.
Worth taking notice that despite all the hatred towards the outgoing players, how gracious have they all been since they left, including Pochettino. Most have all thanked the fans and the club for their time and memories and in the case of our home-grown players, the development of them as players. They'll remain classy as they were brought up "The Southampton Way" - the sad thing is, there is no way any more.
TBC
thinktank
Hmmm...
- Sep 28, 2004
- 45,893
- 68,893
spurs9
Well-Known Member
- Aug 31, 2012
- 11,909
- 34,465
Sean @SeanBrundell 36m
@jetsetyid could you shed any light on the MS and JR stuff please?!
The original JJetset@jetsetyid Protected Tweets
@SeanBrundell ok just this once. Both targets always have been but definitely not done.
@jetsetyid could you shed any light on the MS and JR stuff please?!
The original JJetset@jetsetyid Protected Tweets@SeanBrundell ok just this once. Both targets always have been but definitely not done.
Greenspur
Very old member
- Sep 1, 2004
- 2,681
- 3,090
Why are you only going down to the off license now. Surely, you should have bought loads yesterday, and be well on your way by now. I, personally, am one third pissed.
CAIN
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2012
- 383
- 1,090
How's the edit?
markiespurs
SC Supporter
- Jul 9, 2008
- 11,899
- 15,576
Levy probably got the scent of blood in the water when he appointed Poch and Southampton didn't put a clause in the deal prohibiting us from going after any Southampton players for a few years.
easley91
Well-Known Member
- Jan 27, 2011
- 19,158
- 54,960
Jaffa how can you dislike this clearly informative post?! Madness!
KILLA_SIN
Well-Known Member
- May 24, 2008
- 7,983
- 14,741
I know what CH stands for
but when I read 'still want CH' that came across as initials of name, rather than 'still want a CH'
Greenspur
Very old member
- Sep 1, 2004
- 2,681
- 3,090
All these modern day computer game terms like DLM, ACM, BLAH, etc. have masked the proper olden day positions like centre half, left back, etc.
Soon the goalkeeper will become the net custodian.
CockOnBall
Well-Known Member
- Aug 21, 2013
- 1,187
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GetSpurredOn
Well-Known Member
- Jun 18, 2006
- 5,022
- 8,922
So reading back over the last page and a bit. Lascalles is quite possibly done, or very close, Schneiderlin and Rodriguez are quite possibly done, or very close.
Plus we have a media source from earlier in the day, claiming Naughton could be off to Swansea, and Rose & Vertonghen are on the brink of signing new contracts.
Have to say I'd be fairly happy with all that. Maybe signals the end of Sandro if MS comes in, sad, but writing has been on the wall all summer. Still think we need a LCB, and sounds like we may still be looking. LWF/CF in Rodriguez, home grown quota too. RB going wouldn't be too bad, plenty of RB's about, maybe even Richards who has been linked. Home grown LB staying, good in the bigger picture. I'd be inclined to let Paulinho go too if Sandro goes, place faith in Carroll/Mason etc as backup to Capoue, MS, Dembele, Holtby in CM.
Plus we have a media source from earlier in the day, claiming Naughton could be off to Swansea, and Rose & Vertonghen are on the brink of signing new contracts.
Have to say I'd be fairly happy with all that. Maybe signals the end of Sandro if MS comes in, sad, but writing has been on the wall all summer. Still think we need a LCB, and sounds like we may still be looking. LWF/CF in Rodriguez, home grown quota too. RB going wouldn't be too bad, plenty of RB's about, maybe even Richards who has been linked. Home grown LB staying, good in the bigger picture. I'd be inclined to let Paulinho go too if Sandro goes, place faith in Carroll/Mason etc as backup to Capoue, MS, Dembele, Holtby in CM.
CAIN
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2012
- 383
- 1,090
And p.s.Taken this from a supposed Saints ITK - bolded the important bit but it's all interesting. (imo)
Crab Lungs
Full Member
Join Date
Nov 2006
Location
Southampton, United Kingdom
Posts
6,577
I've taken a lot of stick on here for my viewpoint over the past few months... That's fine, I can accept that but now can any of you finally see what's happening here? I've PM'd some people on here with some of the stuff that I have been told already and there's plenty more to come. I'm part tempted to blab it all out now as, just as I was typing a PM to someone today the JR and MS story broke... and that was what was the content of my PM - the future of those two. Oh well, lost some ITK credibility there. Seriously though, I haven't enjoyed any of this happening and I can safely say that those worried have a damn good reason to worry.
So, onto the juicy stuff... I'll try do this in sections and keep updating it as I go...
Cortese Leaving/Direction Of Club
Anyway, you may not like to hear this but yes, everything went to complete sh1t when Cortese left. It was never "business as usual". The figurehead who sold the club to Lovren, Osvaldo, Wanyama and the other ambitious members of our existing squad took all the drive and ambition with him. Like him or not, he wanted to push us further and the players believed in that vision, that's what motivated them to join or in some cases, stay when they could have moved on a lot sooner.
The official line is that KL wanted NC to have more accountability to his actions - that's fair enough. After all, it's technically her club and her money. The relationship between the two had been fraught for a while with NC wanted to go in one direction and KL, maintaining a small interest in football matters but a larger one in financial matters wanting to go another. Evidently, this would only lead with a parting of ways and one winner whilst ourselves and Cortese are left as the losers in this whole sorry saga. Oh, and Les Reed is doing alright, too - then again, he was never going to rock the boat with the cushy number he had. "Yes Kat, no Kat, three bags full Kat".
The appointment of Krueger has spectacularly backfired - he was meant to be the figurehead who "talked the talk" whilst quietly, behind the scenes, things were being scaled down and the goalposts shifting. As soon as NC left, it was never our intention to "walk the walk" too - only to allude to it whilst slowly dampening and managing fans expectations. As Guan said, he was reeled back in and Reed was wheeled back out. To be honest though, it doesn't matter who releases statements now as it's been proven - it's all bullsh1t.
Finances
I need to underline something else... there is nothing wrong with the club financially. The term that Hofstetter used was to discredit NC and NC hasn't released anything into the media about players leaving or tried to unsettle them. They did have a lot of respect for him and wholly supported the direction of the club under his tenure. NC did that interview after he left because he knew what was coming.
We are one of the healthiest clubs in the Premier League and even more so now to the detriment of our playing squad. We won't hugely over budget with the training ground and yes, NC was carefree with the cash during his time here but despite this, we were in healthy, normal position. It's not a Pompey or Leeds situation and the wage budget sits well within the structure. We've not been overstretching nor were careless with managing them. We were absolutely fine and in a position to add to our squad after an equal best-placed finish under Pochettino last year.
Possible Sale Of Club
I don't know for sure but it's rumoured that KL wants to make up the difference in her valuation with player sales... whether that's the case, I'm not sure but no-one was willing to pay the asking price over the last few months so a reduced price might see a few interested parties come to the table. Once she's stripped the club bare and reinvested the bare minimum, that is, to keep us whatever is viewed as "competitive".
Adam Lallana
Adam, as club captain, asked numerous times on behalf of himself and the players about the plans for this season from Feb/March onwards. Everyone wanted to know for sure that the "project" was still alive. At first he was told "everything will carry on as normal" as if Cortese was still there. Quietly, the scenery was shifting and Adam and the players recognised this. In addition to this, the situation surrounding the managers future also compounded matters and it wasn't before long that the squad began to wonder what was going on and what direction the club was going in.
Adam did try but like everyone else, failed to get a conclusive answer to his questions. Towards the end of last season, he'd already been lined up to join United but with Moyes being sacked that deal fell through. Later, Liverpool's interest surface and despite AL's attempts to deal with the situation maturely he was messed around and he left on a very sour note. That was never his intention, likewise it was never the intention of Lovren, too. In fact, none of the players were particularly itching for a move until Cortese, then Pochettino left and the whole continuation of the "project" was left clouded in mystery.
Players (ex and soon to be ex-players)
There are no clauses in any of the players contracts. They requested to leave - why though?
In January, the club were well aware of the Shaw interest and were already in discussions with potential suitors. This was to be the ONLY planned sale under Cortese and preparation for the new season was already being discussed between NC, MP and other staff.
With the plummeting depth in morale due to a lack of communication from the top about the directions and ambitions of the club, the players obviously talked amongst themselves and saw no future here unless they got reassurances. Like Adam, they got lip service if they were lucky or nothing at all. You only have to look back at previous comments in the press from the players over the past few months where they're hinting that they didn't know what was going on and that they'd be happy to stay if the club focus and ambition was still the same. Instead, they got silence.
That said, there are many factors in their decisions to leave and in some cases, intrinsically linked. The Pochettino effect, clubs direction, suitors and possibility of European football, raises in salary BUT it's worth knowing that before Cortese left, all were very settled and happy and many were contented with the progress being made. Sure, they were ambitious but that ambition simply mirrored that of their chairman and manager. To keep them, we'd have to align our ambitions with theirs and we didn't.
Make no mistake, apart from Shaw and the sentimental sale of Lambert (who, incidentally, wanted to finish his career here otherwise), many of the sales and impending sales were avoidable. How? By matching their ambitions. By retaining their teammates. By retaining and backing the popular manager first and foremost would have given us the best possible opportunity to keep a hold of those players.
I was just typing a PM today to someone about the J-Rod, Schneiderlin situation when the news broke but yes, they're next and won't be the last.
The morale of the team was further damaged by the outgoings after Shaw's sale and with the lack of the communication about the direction of the club many decided they'd have enough. As mentioned before, their ambitions aligned with that of the previous chairman and without the same drive/figurehead/ambition as previous then it was only natural they'd instruct their agents to look elsewhere. The treatment some of the players received during the period where potential suitors were circling was shambolic, too. The board acted amateurishly, refusing to take calls from players and making it as difficult as possible to communicate with them about the clubs intentions. The whole trust relationship broke down unsurprisingly and that's we've had what seems like toys being thrown out the pram. It wasn't. It was the frustration seeping out of the players at the club after many months of not-knowing.
Yes, Cortese really was the glue that kept it all together.
Worth taking notice that despite all the hatred towards the outgoing players, how gracious have they all been since they left, including Pochettino. Most have all thanked the fans and the club for their time and memories and in the case of our home-grown players, the development of them as players. They'll remain classy as they were brought up "The Southampton Way" - the sad thing is, there is no way any more.
TBC
Mike Channon's windmill goal scoring celebrations seem like fucking light years away
Chris Finch
Well-Known Member
- Aug 14, 2012
- 1,769
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Is it just me or is the Soton itk clearly Cortese?! Lol
Amo
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- Aug 22, 2013
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He's a legend if he has posted 7000 posts on a Saints forum over a period of years.
Col_M
Pointing out the Obvious
- Feb 28, 2012
- 22,786
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Did you sneak that Rose bit on for a laugh?!
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