The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 9th June 2019

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Primativ

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How do you know they've 'only just realised'? Where are you getting this from?
It was tongue in cheek. Anyway, Herc said the market is ridiculous and crazy, people and clubs are moving the goal posts etc.

My point was that you can’t blame the market for not being able to do deals, it’s the same for everyone. It was the same story last summer etc. There are always a myriad of reasons why deals are difficult to do but now it’s time for the club to finally deliver on what Poch needs. As fans the last two years and even further back have continuously been why we can’t do (the big) deals, rather than just doing them.

That said, the ITK still sounds positive so here’s hoping.
 

-Afri-Coy-

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If I like your posts etc, it is not endorsement from me everyone!!!

Just that I like what you said 😉
Cheers again for the info Herc, always appreciated.

It's funny how we complain about this but I bet if we had the chance to do the same we would.

It's business, assets are worth whatever someone or another business is willing to pay for those assets.

If we wanted to maximize our profit or income off one of our prized players, then we definitely wouldn't complain about it as fans. We would almost certainly insist on this approach if we were the selling party.

So when the coin flips and we find ourselves on the Shhh end of the stick, we can't really complain about it. It sucks, but it;s the nature of the market and business (football) at the moment.

Lo Celso and N'Dombele have that dangerous combination of being young and extremely talented prospects. These are the most valuable assets in a business sense when it comes to modern football.

I feel very confident that we will land the players that we need too. This is just part of the process.
 

dirtyh

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thanks herc, you can see why levy despises agents so much.

bsodl to the rescue........
 

Lighty64

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It's completely at odds with the bit that you've quoted and we have been very confident with players before (De Jong last summer being just one example) until someone else comes in and pays the asking price, or close to, while we are buggering about moaning about goalposts being moved. The reason this post makes me pessimistic is that whenever (and I am going back many, many years) we start to hear about agents messing us about, goalposts being moved etc etc it rarely ends well. As I said, I am still hopeful that this summer is different but I am starting to see some worryingly familiar signs, that's all I'm saying.
try reading @Hercules post then it might help you. he said we approach the club with the fee, it's them that moves the goal post. if you was offered a house or car for a certain price would you pay an extra 20%+ to get it, if it's not in your budget?

if we have a set amount to spend on 4 players which we have been given prices on, how do you expect us to reach that extra 20%+ on every player. if the 4 players complete the puzzle, sometimes 1 or 2 missing pieces means that puzzle won't work. with Ndombele and Lo Chelso both quality players, but neither of them have ever played in the PL. using your whole budget on them and not filling other holes is a pretty risky business if they are now bunging 20+m on top

makes me laugh with so many posters in here, they fail to listen to the info given and put their edge on it, yet when it comes to us selling players we ask more than what we should do. because you (not aimed directly at you Pablo) don't value a player at the price the club do, we get into the buying at 2010, selling at 2019
 

skiba

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It was tongue in cheek. Anyway, Herc said the market is ridiculous and crazy, people and clubs are moving the goal posts etc.

My point was that you can’t blame the market for not being able to do deals, it’s the same for everyone. It was the same story last summer etc. There are always a myriad of reasons why deals are difficult to do but now it’s time for the club to finally deliver on what Poch needs. As fans the last two years and even further back have continuously been why we can’t do (the big) deals, rather than just doing them.

That said, the ITK still sounds positive so here’s hoping.
Unless I'm wrong and taking Hercs ITK too literally it appears we have met a selling clubs price twice but they keep asking for more money? If that is the case, what do you think the club should be doing differently to get the deal done? Pay the extra £20m? Whos to say they won't ask for more again?

I get the negativity as it does feel like a road we've all been down before but I don't really see what the club have done wrong in this instance.
 

Lou3000

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Outside of Real Madrid, who else has completed a meaningful transfer?

Daniel James to United is about as exciting as our Notts County kid, at least in terms of immediate contribution.

I don't know why any selling club would allow themselves to be forced into selling early in the window, especially when multiple clubs are interested in their player.
 

Legacy

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I know I'm probably in the minority, but I am relieved to hear we aren't considering throwing ridiculous money at AWB. I'd like to have him at the club, but setting a transfer world record for a young full back with only one full season of experience and looked defensively strong in a team that played a defensive style of play, which is completely different to our style and the demands we place on our full backs? Screams of a massive risk to me.

Our right back is expected to contribute just as much to attack as defence and will have a lot less protection when not playing for a team whose primary objective is to not concede. AWB may very well succeed in our system, but I don't think he's shown 60 million reasons for any top team to take that kind of gamble on him yet.
 
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Cannot believe some of the posters since Hercs info :
It is what it is
Just pay up
The market has moved etc

That is not how business works, you cannot just keep saying “yes ok” to upping your original offer, word would soon get out and you would end up overpaying for every Aquisition you needed

Thanks for the info Herc, very informative
 

hughy

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Daniel James to United is about as exciting as our Notts County kid, at least in terms of immediate contribution.
.
They are vastly different in terms of age and experience. James is a full international and will most likely go straight into their first team (squad not XI), Etete is probably going in to our u18's after pre-season.
 

Legacy

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Unless I'm wrong and taking Hercs ITK too literally it appears we have met a selling clubs price twice but they keep asking for more money? If that is the case, what do you think the club should be doing differently to get the deal done? Pay the extra £20m? Whos to say they won't ask for more again?

I get the negativity as it does feel like a road we've all been down before but I don't really see what the club have done wrong in this instance.
This is going to be the case for literally every club with players they don't want to sell too. There's still a really long time left in this transfer window. If a selling club set a valuation for an in demand player and that valuation gets met immediately, they're obviously going to think they can get a higher price, especially later in the window when some teams start getting desperate.

Eventually, they'll overprice the player, other clubs will move on to more attainable targets for them, and when the list of potential buyers decreases, as will the player's value.
 

BENNO

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Cannot believe some of the posters since Hercs info :
It is what it is
Just pay up
The market has moved etc

That is not how business works, you cannot just keep saying “yes ok” to upping your original offer, word would soon get out and you would end up overpaying for every Aquisition you needed

Thanks for the info Herc, very informative
I'm always disappointed that these 'just pay the money' merchants are never around when i'm selling something on eBay.
 

Khilari

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Whilst it is ok to compare us to other sides who also have not made any significant moves so far in this transfer window, we are the only ones not to have added quality for over a year and, assuming Mauricio Pochettino plans to stay providing we can match his ambition then we cannot continue to leave us exposed to bigger salary paying clubs gazumping us.
 

wrd

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Cannot believe some of the posters since Hercs info :
It is what it is
Just pay up
The market has moved etc

That is not how business works, you cannot just keep saying “yes ok” to upping your original offer, word would soon get out and you would end up overpaying for every Aquisition you needed

Thanks for the info Herc, very informative
Well clearly you've never worked in finances where the losses aren't yours, you can easily just throw another 30 mill in:LOL:.
 

Bulletspur

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I know I'm probably in the minority, but I am relieved to hear we aren't considering throwing ridiculous money at AWB. I'd like to have him at the club, but setting a transfer world record for a young full back with only one full season of experience and looked defensively strong in a team that played a defensive style of play, which is completely different to our style and the demands we place on our full backs? Screams of a massive risk to me.

Our right back is expected to contribute just as much to attack as defence and will have a lot less protection when not playing for a team whose primary objective is to not concede. AWB may very well succeed in our system, but I don't think he's shown 60 million reasons for any top team to take that kind of gamble on him yet.
Then you complain when the AWBs of the world go on and do well else where and then subsequently complain and ask why we did not go for him. Even with just one season, AWB has more than shown that he is quality and have nothing to prove. I would have him in a heart beat as he is one of those players we have been crying out for, he would more than enhance our squad.
 

Bulletspur

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Unless I'm wrong and taking Hercs ITK too literally it appears we have met a selling clubs price twice but they keep asking for more money? If that is the case, what do you think the club should be doing differently to get the deal done? Pay the extra £20m? Whos to say they won't ask for more again?

I get the negativity as it does feel like a road we've all been down before but I don't really see what the club have done wrong in this instance.
I agree. The way I see from @Hercules post, is the Agents are more interested in the size of their commission than any interest of their clients' choice of where to go, but I could be wrong
 

yido_number1

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None of this is surprising at all. As fans we all believe we should get top money for our players and then expect to buy on the cheap.

I think this year will see us decide if we are going to compete in the league and in Europe or just accept being a top 6 club that wins nothing.
 

WiganSpur

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Cannot believe some of the posters since Hercs info :
It is what it is
Just pay up
The market has moved etc

That is not how business works, you cannot just keep saying “yes ok” to upping your original offer, word would soon get out and you would end up overpaying for every Aquisition you needed

Thanks for the info Herc, very informative
We always seem to be the ones letting other clubs dictate the proceedings. If the clubs, agents and players weren't somewhat interested in a deal then they wouldn't be talking to us.

There are loads of players that would improve us so just make both parties a fair offer, set a deadline and then move on if they are not willing to bite by that point. I reckon at least some of them will bite, and if not then we go to the next one down the list. We need players in for pre-season, it's as simple as that. We need major surgery unlike a lot of other clubs, so playing a waiting game is incredibly risky.
 

Mr Pink

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One thing is very clear for me, we're in real need of a quality CM.

In light of the latest ITK, if we end up paying 70million for Ndombele, for example, he'd end up being worth every penny in all likelihood.

Yes, we should always try and get the best deal, but it's about understanding the Value, not just price, in terms of the impact and need for certain individual signings.

There should be no excuses in acquiring a real quality CM this summer, none.
 
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