The beginning of the end...

[Shadydan]

Nah he was merely caught up in the emotions of the occasion.

Good one.

 

[shelfboy68]

I don’t think a bad performance and getting beaten at Arsenal should be cause for panic either. We haven’t won there since 2010 and last season arrived there the better team and got outplayed.

Like we do every season you mean just roll over and let arsenal get on with it.

 

[Gb160]

I don’t think a bad performance and getting beaten at Arsenal should be cause for panic either. We haven’t won there since 2010 and last season arrived there the better team and got outplayed.

Yeah thanks that's really cheered everyone up mate.

 

[dagraham]

Yeah thanks that's really cheered everyone up mate.

I’m here all week.

 

[Gb160]

I’m here all week.

What are your plans for the international break?...going down the orphanage to tell the kids that Santa isn't real?

 

[Shadydan]

What are your plans for the international break?...going down the orphanage to tell the kids that Santa isn't real?

Don't give him any ideas.

 

[rossdapep]

I understand why everyone’s grumpy but we have to remember that they always start the season slowly after Poch’s preseasons. It’s been the same every year pretty much. We then click around November and come on like a train at Xmas and the New Year.

Last season was a one-off conditioning-wise. The squad was on its knees by March-April.

It's true we typically start slow under Poch, although last season was good points wise, even if we did lose bad games.

The problem however, is that if we have aspirations of winning titles, we have to come flying out of the traps. The fact that we never do that under Poch is a worry in itself as you have to ask the question "When will we ever start strongly?".

Instead Poch grumbles, says we are far off from where we need to be. Imagine you are a player who wants to win stuff badly and you hear that again. You're going to start to think "Does this guy really believe in us?"

What I can't understand is how can Poch go to Southampton midseason and have them applying this intense pressing game from day 1. Yet with us he needs a preseason and 2 months or so? Yes, things take time and systems need to be worked on but he's essentially working with the same group of players. He could at least have had them pressing hard on Sunday. That's the bear minimum.

That goal came about because we'd dropped deep and let Newcastle come forward with the ball. Watch City or Liverpool at home, no chance they'll let Newcastle do that.

So that stirs the question. Did Poch tell them to drop? Or did they drop as they're no longer listening to him?

Same thing against City, the players were making the same defensive mistakes over and over. If they had the intensity and focus they'd have sorted that out quickly.

Our lack of creativity is a massive issue but our lack of intensity is a fundamental issue.

 

[dagraham]

Like we do every season you mean just roll over and let arsenal get on with it.

I’m not saying I’ll just shrug my shoulders and say “oh well never mind”, but I don’t think it will cement any issues that we are perceiving.

If we continue to get the same lacklustre performances and basic defensive mistakes for the next month/six weeks then maybe it’s time to hit the panic button.

 

[guiltyparty]

All got a bit Brexity in here

It’s possible to hold a centrist opinion - recognise everything Poch’s done, while being concerned at what’s happening.

One doesn’t invalidate the other

 

[AllReb]

And if Eriksen, Toby, Rose & Vertonghen all stay put, but don't sign new deals, then there will be all the talk of January moves, or the pre-contracts they scan sign. That will be his next excuse.

Sadly you’re right and I have a horrible feeling he’ll walk as soon as Yanited sack Ole

 

[Phomesy]

it's not worth it, if your opinion differs, we are all bed wetters and " grown men crying" almost as if the platform for which this website is designed doesn't apply when we are of different opinion.

Huh? You're acting like you're being policed differently from those who don't happen to think Poch should be sacked; or that our CL run last year was basically a fluke of epic proportions because we are actually shit.

Those people are getting to say those things and other people are free to agree or disagree - vehemently. And mods - and the ratings system - are letting every, equally, share their opinions on those opinions.

SO why on earth are you claiming victim status?

 

[shelfboy68]

I’m not saying I’ll just shrug my shoulders and say “oh well never mind”, but I don’t think it will cement any issues that we are perceiving.

If we continue to get the same lacklustre performances and basic defensive mistakes for the next month/six weeks then maybe it’s time to hit the panic button.

I'm not advocating getting rid of poch because knowing levy he would most likely bring in the Bournemouth manager and that would be a backwards step again, but all those things you have listed have been going on since last season and nothing has changed so the problem is deeper and more profound.

 

[danielneeds]

It's true we typically start slow under Poch, although last season was good points wise, even if we did lose bad games.

The problem however, is that if we have aspirations of winning titles, we have to come flying out of the traps. The fact that we never do that under Poch is a worry in itself as you have to ask the question "When will we ever start strongly?".

Instead Poch grumbles, says we are far off from where we need to be. Imagine you are a player who wants to win stuff badly and you hear that again. You're going to start to think "Does this guy really believe in us?"

What I can't understand is how can Poch go to Southampton midseason and have them applying this intense pressing game from day 1. Yet with us he needs a preseason and 2 months or so? Yes, things take time and systems need to be worked on but he's essentially working with the same group of players. He could at least have had them pressing hard on Sunday. That's the bear minimum.

That goal came about because we'd dropped deep and let Newcastle come forward with the ball. Watch City or Liverpool at home, no chance they'll let Newcastle do that.

So that stirs the question. Did Poch tell them to drop? Or did they drop as they're no longer listening to him?

Same thing against City, the players were making the same defensive mistakes over and over. If they had the intensity and focus they'd have sorted that out quickly.

Our lack of creativity is a massive issue but our lack of intensity is a fundamental issue.

There was a quote from Poch when asked about Rose and Sanchez’s culpability for the goal where he says you have to go back in the play to find the problem, which intimidates he’s not happy with how we’re applying ourselves out of possession.

 

[Monkey boy]

I’ve a funny feeling we’ll do the arse on Sunday. This is very reminiscent of his first season and when we were in terrible form had just lost 1 nil to West Brom at home in a game remarkably similar to the one we witnessed on Sunday and every man and his dog were predicting a thrashing and we went to their place and out played them and came away disappointed with only a point. He also went rogue and threw Mason in for his debut I think.

If it’s one thing a derby does, is throw the form book out of the proverbial window which god knows we need that to happen right now.

 

[Matthew]

Let's not pretend we're living in some sort of fascist state here where opinions are routinely ignored or belittled because some people "know better".

We've come into a new season a little bit unsure of ourselves, not as a club, but in regards to playing staff. This will be concluded, this period of uncertainty in the next 5 days and we'll all know where we stand.

Being reasonable, this is a thread that I could understand if two months down the line we're languishing in 6th / 7th /8th and the performances are poor and things are looking genuinely shitty. But we're not there yet. The only evidence that we'll go there at any point is a poor offensive display against Newcastle and Poch seeming a bit moody. I'd be moody if I were him.

If we, as a collective of football fans, can't handle a shoddy, poor display at the very start of a season and our manager for a few weeks not being in a great mood, and off of this poor result and display, come to the collective opinion that despite reaching A CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL 4 games ago, we're suddenly about to go all Christian Gross on it, then frankly, we are a bunch of bedwetting, crying man babies.

But if you’d read through all the comments, you’d see most posts aren’t actually bedwettung, there’s a legitimate concern, when we’ve had 2 itk saying all is not well behind the scenes, there’s generally no smoke with out fire.

And no one is having a meltdown because of the opening 3 games. Fact of the matter is. We’ve 4 wins since the end of feb in the league, we’ve not won away since January and poch’s demeanour has changed over the last 9/12 months, if utd and arsenal wern’t so shit this elastic few games, we probably finish 6th.

The champions league was a fluke, we had to rely on PSV knocking out inter, we qualified because inter and PSV were worse than us, we played well against Dortmund, but aside from a marginal VAR call (aguero offside, Llorente handball) we’d be out, and maybe deservedly so.

If you want to ignore all the obvious warning signs that are very clearly there, be my guest.

 

[rossdapep]

All got a bit Brexity in here

It’s possible to hold a centrist opinion - recognise everything Poch’s done, while being concerned at what’s happening.

One doesn’t invalidate the other

Exactly. I don't think anyone is seriously wanting Poch out. The ideal scenario here is that Poch gets a hold of the situation, figures out what he needs to do and lifts the mood again, in turn he can start to talk about winning stuff again.

He's a mightily fantastic coach, one of the best, but he does have his flaws and like all leaders if you're not careful you can become to involved and deep in your beliefs even if all around you can see it's not working.

He's also improved a lot with us but there's always been elements of his management/coaching up for improvement. If he doesn't address those it'll stop him from winning trophies, with or without us.

 

[dagraham]

I'm not advocating getting rid of poch because knowing levy he would most likely bring in the Bournemouth manager and that would be a backwards step again, but all those things you have listed have been going on since last season and nothing has changed so the problem is deeper and more profound.

Yeah fair comment. I’m concerned about our performances too.

 

[rossdapep]

There was a quote from Poch when asked about Rose and Sanchez’s culpability for the goal where he says you have to go back in the play to find the problem, which intimidates he’s not happy with how we’re applying ourselves out of possession.

I hadn't seen that but that's good. Hopefully we see more fight off the ball come Sunday

 

[shelfboy68]

Exactly. I don't think anyone is seriously wanting Poch out. The ideal scenario here is that Poch gets a hold of the situation, figures out what he needs to do and lifts the mood again, in turn he can start to talk about winning stuff again.

He's a mightily fantastic coach, one of the best, but he does have his flaws and like all leaders if you're not careful you can become to involved and deep in your beliefs even if all around you can see it's not working.

He's also improved a lot with us but there's always been elements of his management/coaching up for improvement. If he doesn't address those it'll stop him from winning trophies, with or without us.

Unless poch goes to Celtic he probably will win nothing.

 

[Matthew]

Huh? You're acting like you're being policed differently from those who don't happen to think Poch should be sacked; or that our CL run last year was basically a fluke of epic proportions because we are actually shit.

Those people are getting to say those things and other people are free to agree or disagree - vehemently. And mods - and the ratings system - are letting every, equally, share their opinions on those opinions.

SO why on earth are you claiming victim status?

Disagree all you want, this is what the forum is for, it’s the stupid pathetic comments about being bedwetters just because their opinion differs which is ridiculous.