- Sep 25, 2011
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Sorry please ignoreWho thinks it's gonna be easy?
Sorry please ignoreWho thinks it's gonna be easy?
Who thinks it's gonna be easy?
I'm really not that worried about pool. Certainly no more than any team we face. They are not that great. Pretty average from the games I've seen them play. They've had a 'mini' revival, only because the teams they play are so bad.
Surely Liverpool will have the same worries as well though? They have just as many internationals as we do and have more injury worries. We don't need our absolute strongest 11 to beat them. They should be more worried about us, then us them.
Lloris
Walker Alderweireld Wimmer Rose
Alli Dier Dembele
Lamela Kane Eriksen
Lloris
Walker Alderweireld Wimmer Rose
Alli Dier Dembele
Lamela Kane Eriksen
won't matter if you tell them play 433 or 4231 that's the same team either way and they'll play the fluid way they have been. Dier will drop deep, Alli would support Kane and Dembele fill in the gaps.
Put another way, do you mind telling me how you think this team, laid out like you have it, would, in reality, play differently to this team:
LLoris
Walker Toby Wim Rose
Dier Dembele
Lamela Alli Eriksen
Kane
won't matter if you tell them play 433 or 4231 that's the same team either way and they'll play the fluid way they have been. Dier will drop deep, Alli would support Kane and Dembele fill in the gaps.
Put another way, do you mind telling me how you think this team, laid out like you have it, would, in reality, play differently to this team:
LLoris
Walker Toby Wim Rose
Dier Dembele
Lamela Alli Eriksen
Kane
Still think your assessment of Alli is too harsh. It basically amounts to 'he can tackle and run around a bit'.See @Blake Griffin 's post above.
Formations can/do change the default dynamics and roles. There is always 10 outfield players, the game is always fluid, but are you really telling me you don't understand the concept of having the same 10 outfield players applied slightly differently tactically - given slightly different instructions and remits - and the role that nuanced changes in default formation play in those differences ?
You've been whining on all season about me saying that I think we will only truly see the best of Alli in a 433. Well last week you saw why I believe that to be so.
I think his qualities and attributes suit that role. He's not a 60 pass a game, metronomic, side to side, box to box dynamo that a CM2 often needs to be, he can tackle and has a good engine but he's not quite adroit enough to cover lots of multidirectional ground quickly (few are - which is why CM2 is such a hard position to look good in), again as a CM2 often needs to do. He's not a great dribbler as a wide forward/wide AM needs to be sometimes, he's not a forward playmaker like a Totti, in pressured, confined and compressed spaces in the final third his touch can sometimes be rattled into bumbleness when a forward playmaker needs to be like a fly who's brain works calmly while all around is moving at 100mph.
But in a midfield three his strengths are played to. He will win and pass the ball with some purpose and progression, he is tenacious, he has a good engine but it's better vertically than 360%,. As part of a CM3 he's not required to spend all of his time fetching and carrying and doing the mundane that CM2's have to do more of (again, why it's hard for them to look great much of the time), but he can do enough of it to support the other two CM's - and cover when one of the other CM's gets forward, but can also bomb on, support the attack, get into the box from deeper, harder to pick up positions, without leaving a gaping hole in the CM behind him, because there are two others who can adjust and cover.
I also think the emergence of Dier is perfect for a 433. The thought of having players like Alli, Bentaleb, Mason and especially Onomah (who like Alli is tailor made for a 433) playing either side of him is mouthwatering IMO.
Still think your assessment of Alli is too harsh. It basically amounts to 'he can tackle and run around a bit'.
if Verts is fit he plays for me the position is his even tho Wimmer has been great
See @Blake Griffin 's post above.
Formations can/do change the default dynamics and roles. There is always 10 outfield players, the game is always fluid, but are you really telling me you don't understand the concept of having the same 10 outfield players applied slightly differently tactically - given slightly different instructions and remits - and the role that nuanced changes in default formation play in those differences ?
You've been whining on all season about me saying that I think we will only truly see the best of Alli in a 433. Well last week you saw why I believe that to be so.
I think his qualities and attributes suit that role. He's not a 60 pass a game, metronomic, side to side, box to box dynamo that a CM2 often needs to be, he can tackle and has a good engine but he's not quite adroit enough to cover lots of multidirectional ground quickly (few are - which is why CM2 is such a hard position to look good in), again as a CM2 often needs to do. He's not a great dribbler as a wide forward/wide AM needs to be sometimes, he's not a forward playmaker like a Totti, in pressured, confined and compressed spaces in the final third his touch can sometimes be rattled into bumbleness when a forward playmaker needs to be like a fly who's brain works calmly while all around is moving at 100mph.
But in a midfield three his strengths are played to. He will win and pass the ball with some purpose and progression, he is tenacious, he has a good engine but it's better vertically than 360%,. As part of a CM3 he's not required to spend all of his time fetching and carrying and doing the mundane that CM2's have to do more of (again, why it's hard for them to look great much of the time), but he can do enough of it to support the other two CM's - and cover when one of the other CM's gets forward, but can also bomb on, support the attack, get into the box from deeper, harder to pick up positions, without leaving a gaping hole in the CM behind him, because there are two others who can adjust and cover.
I also think the emergence of Dier is perfect for a 433. The thought of having players like Alli, Bentaleb, Mason and especially Onomah (who like Alli is tailor made for a 433) playing either side of him is mouthwatering IMO.
So what you're saying is that Dier plays five yards further forward and gets forward a bit more, while Dembele plays the same way he always does, and Alli plays five yards further back. The full-backs play a bit more withdrawn because they haven't for Dier dropping in to make a CB 3 so much, and they do all this because they remember what Poch told them?
Or do you think that given they have a natural understanding and rhythm by now Dier will tend to sit in, Alli tend to get forward, the FBs will tend to play advanced and Demebele will play the same way?
To me the suggestion is text-book 'text-book tactics' rather than 'what really fucking happens tactics'.
And apart from all that it's a pointless point.
Why don't you answer @Blake Griffin (and my) question to you? Do you think Alli has played a better all round 90 minute game than the one he did - playing in a CM3 - for England in midweek. Did you just dismiss this as a coincidence or did you think it through and think his performance was affected by the slightly different remit and positioning that playing in the 433 forced upon him.
Is it that you don't understand that formation shape can change tactical application or is it that you understand it can but don't understand this particular change of tactical application? genuine question, if you tell me I can answer accordingly?
If you have "Dier in a more disciplined central role", for which I read sitting in, then I genuinely don't understand your point? You're just saying you want Alli and Bentaleb to swap attacking roles a bit more? Rather than Alli and Dembele? You want them to be equally attacking and defending as each other? Rather than mainly Alli attacking and mainly Dembele/Bentaleb a bit deeper? I don't get it, I honestly don't?