Spurs Youth - 2019/20

[IGSpur]

It’s not those we keep, and who then stagnate, that I’m talking about. Rather, it’s those who decide - as a fair number have lately (Kirby, Griffiths, Bennetts, Madueke etc) - to leave without signing a pro contract.

Oh. The only two that had left that had/have the potential to reach a level, that fans would then regret are Kirby and Madueke. Kirby attempted to make the right choice, i.e. move to Chelsea, but went about it the wrong way, and that resulted in him ending up at Palace. Once that happened, his chances of coming through were just as minimal as if he had stayed here.

Madueke is proper talent, on the TOB, Kirby, Onomah level. He also went abroad and opted for a pathway so we'll see how that ends up. Not everyone fulfils their potential but he's tried to give himself a great opportunity.

Bennetts is a better player than Griffiths and a talent at u16. Had a difficult first year, then better 2nd. Stifled a bit before going abroad and getting injured. I can't see him being a world class player, he could still be a very good player but I don't know how his injury has affected him, he was out for a while I believe. I don't imagine Griffiths will come through at Lyon.

 

[IGSpur]

Only player I haven't knowingly seen is Jez Davies.

Interestingly know CBs in this age group. I know Hackett can play there, but looks like he's a permanent LB which he prefers and the exclusion of Hudson suggests he will now stay there.

Again I would've liked to have seen Watt as he can play CB and has played for England but the coaches will have a better idea than me what's going on but I guess with Muir, Lusala and Craig we arguably have a decent spread there, and if any of them get promoted, we have Bryan-Waugh and Dorrington who could get called up.

From this post we lost Forson, Hudson (who was out for a long injury) and Walters.

The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

Am I the only one who rates Jayden Brown? I saw a bit of Danny Rose in him No. But I don't see him as a Danny Rose, I see him as a very steady LB who does everything to a good standard going forward and back. However, like @Spurzinho I see him as becoming more of a LCB. Where I differ to...

www.spurscommunity.co.uk

As an aside, I'm pretty sure the picture they have of Scarlett, in that article, is him making the challenge that injured him for the rest of the season

 

[C0YS]

Oh. The only two that had left that had/have the potential to reach a level, that fans would then regret are Kirby and Madueke. Kirby attempted to make the right choice, i.e. move to Chelsea, but went about it the wrong way, and that resulted in him ending up at Palace. Once that happened, his chances of coming through were just as minimal as if he had stayed here.

Madueke is proper talent, on the TOB, Kirby, Onomah level. He also went abroad and opted for a pathway so we'll see how that ends up. Not everyone fulfils their potential but he's tried to give himself a great opportunity.

Bennetts is a better player than Griffiths and a talent at u16. Had a difficult first year, then better 2nd. Stifled a bit before going abroad and getting injured. I can't see him being a world class player, he could still be a very good player but I don't know how his injury has affected him, he was out for a while I believe. I don't imagine Griffiths will come through at Lyon.

Ok Chelsea loan players out, but, appart from their foreign imports, very few players of theirs play in a top division club outside of the club. Chelsea's youth teams are also light years ahead of ours. But if you work hard Palace is a good place to develop and has developed exceptional talents like Zaha, Wan Bissaka, Clyne, Routledge and Moses recently, all who have had a top level career. So one should be able to work hard and break in.

There might be coaching issues, but almost all of it provided here is theoretical. The reality of the matter is fairly simple. Regardless of how hyped a player is, the chances of them making it at the top level are minimal. Again, examine the guardian list, see how many actually make it to the top level of 'hyped' players, little.

If players like Walker-Peters, Edwards Onomah and TOB make top level careers that would be a fantastic achievement for them, even though they were hyped. Most wonder kids do not end up playing top division football, there is no way around it. You can say we are not doing well enough, there might be truth in it. But most of these examples, are up against it.

In fact it is much easier to make it as a good professional by being 7/10 at all the essentials, that having some great see able talent, like some mentioned. If they don't have those essential skills, they simply wont make it to the top level, this is why a lot of talented players end up missing out. Being good at football does not make you a good footballer.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Even if we’ve not produced as much as we’d like, we have a good solid side’s worth of youth players making good careers for themselves away from the club over recent years (and yes Bale counts as our HG ?).

Button
Smith Caulker Veljkovic Berchiche
Townsend Livermore Bentaleb Daniels
Edwards
Bale​

 

[agrdavidsfan]

Louie Sibley at Derby guys looks a huge talent?

anyone in here seen more of him?

 

[C0YS]

Even if we’ve not produced as much as we’d like, we have a good solid side’s worth of youth players making good careers for themselves away from the club over recent years (and yes Bale counts as our HG ?).

Button
Smith Caulker Veljkovic Berchiche
Townsend Livermore Bentaleb Daniels
Edwards
Bale​

If you want to remove Bale, you can replace with Pekhart who has had a very solid career, bouncing between low level top division/high level second division in big 5 leagues and title challenging clubs in minor leagues.

I would probably pick William Troost-Ekong ahead of Caulker as well, considering his decline. Frankly, I would say Troost-Ekong has done more and proven more than Veljkovic, but isn't talked about as no one truly considered him to break into the first team.

Similarly, M'Poku could be considered an option as a winger, if you want someone a bit more natural there, or Pritchard.

 

[razzmaster]

With the new intake announced what would youth watchers regard as the best XI of the players who are 18 and under?

I'm not very familiar with most so would be interesting to see who are the ones to watch out for.

 

[IGSpur]

Ok Chelsea loan players out, but, appart from their foreign imports, very few players of theirs play in a top division club outside of the club. Chelsea's youth teams are also light years ahead of ours. But if you work hard Palace is a good place to develop and has developed exceptional talents like Zaha, Wan Bissaka, Clyne, Routledge and Moses recently, all who have had a top level career. So one should be able to work hard and break in.

I can't find the recent statistics, but 2 seasons ago, before they were bringing through players they had the 3rd most academy graduates playing in the PL. Behind us who was playing Kane, Rose and Winks and United who always have a lot in theirs. This while probably only having RLC occasionally featuring and possibly Christensen making some appearances. Most of their graduates end up doing fairly well.

They have primarily brought through players that play on the wing, that are fairly risk free, can rely heavily upon their physique and not necessarily dependent on playing style. I believe they have all also mainly come through during the Championship. The most recent one to come through AWB as has been discussed benefitted off an injury I believe, and was about to leave, though the second bit I may not have recalled properly. I don't expect Hodgson, Allardyce or a strugglign De Boer, to put in a ball playing CM/AM in the PL when they're struggling. That's not to take away from the fact that Kirby might not have been performing anyway. I assume that was your point or that you think he was overrated, which while I disagree with your assessment and I'm sure many youth coaches do also, is fair enough.

There might be coaching issues, but almost all of it provided here is theoretical. The reality of the matter is fairly simple. Regardless of how hyped a player is, the chances of them making it at the top level are minimal. Again, examine the guardian list, see how many actually make it to the top level of 'hyped' players, little.

I know this. I've mentioned it loads of times.

If players like Walker-Peters, Edwards Onomah and TOB make top level careers that would be a fantastic achievement for them, even though they were hyped. Most wonder kids do not end up playing top division football, there is no way around it. You can say we are not doing well enough, there might be truth in it. But most of these examples, are up against it.

As above.

In fact it is much easier to make it as a good professional by being 7/10 at all the essentials, that having some great see able talent, like some mentioned. If they don't have those essential skills, they simply wont make it to the top level, this is why a lot of talented players end up missing out. Being good at football does not make you a good footballer.

I agree. In England you're more likely to make it being a 6 or 7/10 in every position. I've said that before, and I've also said it's a reason why England have struggled to bring through talent, as they're more risk averse and focus on being a decent all rounder, than bringing through actual talent. Fortunately things are changing, and the more exceptionally talented players are coming through, and they aren't expecting them all to be as good at defending as they are attacking.

Either way we essentially have different opinion on the academy and development, I've realised that and it's cool. My post was in response to someone asking what talent had that could bite us on the ass, and I was giving my opinion on the ones that might and might not and the reasons.

I wasn't trying to start a debate on whether talent gets a chance, whether they all make it or whatever. It's been done

 

[IGSpur]

With the new intake announced what would youth watchers regard as the best XI of the players who are 18 and under?

I'm not very familiar with most so would be interesting to see who are the ones to watch out for.

If I understand your post correctly, you mean for the whole academy not who are the best players of the new intake. If so, and I'll exclude Jez Davies as I'm not 100% sure on who he is. I've watched a few u16s videos and there were players in there I didn't recognise that appeared in a few matches so assume he was one of them. Anyway I'd do from what I know.

---------Maguire----
Cesay-Lusala-Muir-Hackett
----Mi.Craig-Casanova
Mathurin-Robson------John
-----------Scarlett---------

-GK Maguire is the international here so wen for him. But feel like not a lot seperating them
-Conscious I put John on the wing, but he played most of last season in CM but I've never seen him there and I know he is a winger. But he is the best player,
-Whittaker can feel hard done by to miss out of this team. He was excellent on the wing last season, and decent up top, but feel Robson is a better CAM. Went Mathurin over him based off prue talent and same with John. Similarly put Scarlett uptop as he is a talented striker.
-Juggled who to put next to Michael Craig out of Cassanova, Matthew Craig or Haysman. Haven't seen Haysman in a whole but if he still has talent I assume so as he has kept on I'd put him there, but went for Cassanova as he's more of an allrounder. Also I anticipate if Haysman is as good as I remember due to his size he will take a while to settle next season.
-RB slot I went with Cesay as it was out of him or Lusala and unless Michael Craig decides to slip into CB so Lusala goes RB. Then Lusala could go there, but Cesay did well last season when I saw him, but it's defintely not a strong area.

My form team, so who played where and well last season and not just purely on talent would prob be

----------Lo'Tutala
Cesay-Lusala-Muir-Hackett
------Mi.Craig-John--------
Whittaker-Robson----Mathurin
------------Scarlett-------------

This team is actually really good, but I just haven't seen John there

 

[Yiddo100]

Even if we’ve not produced as much as we’d like, we have a good solid side’s worth of youth players making good careers for themselves away from the club over recent years (and yes Bale counts as our HG ?).

Button
Smith Caulker Veljkovic Berchiche
Townsend Livermore Bentaleb Daniels
Edwards
Bale​

Did anyone pick up Tom Carroll, I’m sure he got released by Swansea but can’t ever remember him getting a club

 

[Anuth]

Since new intakes confirmed, time for a new thread?

 

[Anuth]

 

[carpediem991]

Great, now don't forget to actually play him or give him a good loan.

 

[Locotoro]

JMs interview indicates hes likely to go on loan next season. Wills be good for his development if he can get a lower level premier League team

 

[mill]

JMs interview indicates hes likely to go on loan next season. Wills be good for his development if he can get a lower level premier League team

Even championship would do him good, didn’t do Mount any harm last season.

I’d much rather he played majority of games in the championship than 15-20 games in the prem

 

[beats1]

Ok Chelsea loan players out, but, appart from their foreign imports, very few players of theirs play in a top division club outside of the club. Chelsea's youth teams are also light years ahead of ours. But if you work hard Palace is a good place to develop and has developed exceptional talents like Zaha, Wan Bissaka, Clyne, Routledge and Moses recently, all who have had a top level career. So one should be able to work hard and break in.

There might be coaching issues, but almost all of it provided here is theoretical. The reality of the matter is fairly simple. Regardless of how hyped a player is, the chances of them making it at the top level are minimal. Again, examine the guardian list, see how many actually make it to the top level of 'hyped' players, little.

If players like Walker-Peters, Edwards Onomah and TOB make top level careers that would be a fantastic achievement for them, even though they were hyped. Most wonder kids do not end up playing top division football, there is no way around it. You can say we are not doing well enough, there might be truth in it. But most of these examples, are up against it.

In fact it is much easier to make it as a good professional by being 7/10 at all the essentials, that having some great see able talent, like some mentioned. If they don't have those essential skills, they simply wont make it to the top level, this is why a lot of talented players end up missing out. Being good at football does not make you a good footballer.

Their careers were pretty much an uphill battle the day a decision was made during the ages of 19-21 they wouldn't play any first team football nor play any youth football.

The idea that players improve by training with the first team is the dumbest Idea I have ever heard. Its a great idea if you're a young youth player from 16-18 but someone like Wenger used to sprout the same bollocks and didn't produce any of the players he hijacked outside of Fabregas. In that post Henry era

If you want a player todo that you need a manager with a pair of bollocks to drop first team players. We see that happen with new managers because they aren't afraid to shake things up but managers rarely do it with players that they brought through with the exception of Fergie.

As for Kirby, his career was over as soon as hodgeson was hired as Palace manager

 

[Locotoro]

Their careers were pretty much an uphill battle the day a decision was made during the ages of 19-21 they wouldn't play any first team football nor play any youth football.

The idea that players improve by training with the first team is the dumbest Idea I have ever heard. Its a great idea if you're a young youth player from 16-18 but someone like Wenger used to sprout the same bollocks and didn't produce any of the players he hijacked outside of Fabregas. In that post Henry era

If you want a player todo that you need a manager with a pair of bollocks to drop first team players. We see that happen with new managers because they aren't afraid to shake things up but managers rarely do it with players that they brought through with the exception of Fergie.

As for Kirby, his career was over as soon as hodgeson was hired as England manager

Re Kirby, Why?

 

[beats1]

Re Kirby, Why?

I meant palace manager, Kirby was a De Boer signing and would have worked under him

 

[Hotspur88]

We seem to have a very knowledgeable group in here regarding the youth system. With Alfie Devine rumoured to be close to joining, I've tried to find some clips of him but I know he's only 15 so there isn't anything about. What are people's view on him? Seems he left Liverpool for Wigan? What type of midfielder is he? Any information would be great cheers.

 

[NRH]

Who is now in charge of the academy after McDermott left?