Spurs are in a Catch-22

[Chimbo!]

1. In order for Spurs to compete for the top 4, they need more money.

2. In order to have more money, Spurs need a bigger stadium.

3. In order to get a bigger stadium, Spurs need more money.

The problem is that to compete at the highest level we need a new stadium to afford the best players.

We are in a very difficult situation which will not be resolved over night (it has been 3 years and counting). However, I think as Spurs fans we need to realize that we are not going to compete with City, Chelsea and United for a long time to come.

I should stress that it is nobody's fault. Those 3 clubs just have far more money. One could probably describe our growth under Levy as organic. We have progressed at a natural rate and will continue to do so. However, we will not challenge for the title for years to come. It just is not possible.

This, however, is not a doom and gloom article. Just as it took years to get into the top 4, it may well take years to improve on that and genuinely challenge for the title. But we know Levy can guide Spurs to its target, as he has already taken us to 4th.

The point I am trying to make here is that we should not be too upset if we fail to make the top 4 next year. Yes, we will almost certainly lose a few key players as a consequence but that has happened before and it will happen again. We lost Berbatov, we lost Carrick but we are better now then we were then.

Levy seems focused on the stadium because that is the key issue. He is looking at the bigger picture. At the moment the issue seems a long way from being resolved but, as Levy has proved in the past, we can and will overcome what appears to be a catch-22 dilemma. We just need to be patient... again.

 

[midoNdefoe]

Catch 22 is quite a nice music venue in shoreditch.

Patience is key, but this is the generation of now! so dont be suprised if this turns into a 'i'm tired of waiting', 'if Harry had have done this...' style thread.

I agree with the sentiment, we will get there in time, with nothing stopping us finishing above our level with maybe a tilt at the title in the meantime on a good season...

 

[Maske2g]

Catch 22 means a no win situation....

there is nothing No-win about building a new stadium for the right price.

 

[sloth]

Have you only just worked that out Chimbo :lol:

 

[StartingPrice]

If we keep our star performers and buy striking upgrade we will be able to compete on the pitch this year IMHO.

 

[michaelden]

This is why the OS would be a huge win for Spurs as a club. But try tell that to the WeAreN17 lot!!!!

 

[Legacy]

This is why the OS would be a huge win for Spurs as a club. But try tell that to the WeAreN17 lot!!!!

Exactly. If we had won the Olympic Stadium bid, we'd have had a brilliant new stadium sorted in a couple of years.

This means we just had to keep hold of our best players for a couple more years and we'd soon be able to compete on wages with the rest of the top clubs in Europe. In fact, with the FFP rules soon to be in place, we'd be one of the major forces in football in a few years.

 

[Booney]

Whilst it pains me to say it, the most impressive thing about Ars*nal in recent years is how they built a shiny new stadium and yet kept a squad that was competitive enough to stay in the Champions' League. This has to be the model that we work off but it sure as hell wont be easy.

 

[NEVILLEB]

All we needed to do was sign a top striker last summer.

We had the money but the club messed up.

 

[Chimbo!]

Have you only just worked that out Chimbo :lol:

not so much "worked out" but "come to terms with".

 

[spursphil]

Whilst it pains me to say it, the most impressive thing about Ars*nal in recent years is how they built a shiny new stadium and yet kept a squad that was competitive enough to stay in the Champions' League. This has to be the model that we work off but it sure as hell wont be easy.

I think Arsenal were in the right place at the right time, in at the begining of the champions league and the extra revenue kept them in it. 13 years of CL revenues average £25m per year, its safe to say the Champions league paid for their new ground.
We on the other hand have to build a new stadium off our own backs. The hard way.

 

[Azrael]

Where do these routine "we don't have any money" assumptions come from?

Aren't we something in the region of 12th richest club in the world?

 

[Adam456]

I think there are several simple points here:

1. Yes we need more money to compete and can only get that through a stadium but a stadium costs money. But it's not really a catch 22 - that's where capital financing comes in, like virtually any other major private sector project. How do people think that skyscrapers, shopping centres, theme parks etc. get built ?

2. The question is what level of debt can be taken on and serviced (interest paid) by the Spurs business model and what we can get with that money. I think it's fair to say that the OS would have cost considerably less than NDP by anybody's estimates

3. Arsenal were in the right place at the right time regarding the CL and also the era of cheap and plentiful credit (2000-2008) but they also allowed massive contingency in their figures so were able to ride the credit crunch and a big drop in house prices (and the corresponding value of their new flats). In that respect for us it will be the harder way rather than the hard way

4. Point 3 said, Wenger's annoying ability to sell big names, replace them with cheaper versions and still finish top 4 undoubtedly made for a smoother ride

 

[bigturnip]

1. In order for Spurs to compete for the top 4, they need more money.

2. In order to have more money, Spurs need a bigger stadium.

3. In order to get a bigger stadium, Spurs need more money.

The problem is that to compete at the highest level we need a new stadium to afford the best players.

We are in a very difficult situation which will not be resolved over night (it has been 3 years and counting). However, I think as Spurs fans we need to realize that we are not going to compete with City, Chelsea and United for a long time to come.

I should stress that it is nobody's fault. Those 3 clubs just have far more money. One could probably describe our growth under Levy as organic. We have progressed at a natural rate and will continue to do so. However, we will not challenge for the title for years to come. It just is not possible.

This, however, is not a doom and gloom article. Just as it took years to get into the top 4, it may well take years to improve on that and genuinely challenge for the title. But we know Levy can guide Spurs to its target, as he has already taken us to 4th.

The point I am trying to make here is that we should not be too upset if we fail to make the top 4 next year. Yes, we will almost certainly lose a few key players as a consequence but that has happened before and it will happen again. We lost Berbatov, we lost Carrick but we are better now then we were then.

Levy seems focused on the stadium because that is the key issue. He is looking at the bigger picture. At the moment the issue seems a long way from being resolved but, as Levy has proved in the past, we can and will overcome what appears to be a catch-22 dilemma. We just need to be patient... again.

1. We have been competing for top 4 for the last 2 years, and even came fourth.

2. There are other ways of generating money, but yes this is one way.

3. In order to get a new stadium, I agree, that's why we're applying for money from the RGF.

 

[Chimbo!]

Where do these routine "we don't have any money" assumptions come from?

Aren't we something in the region of 12th richest club in the world?

That logic does not hold because if you are the richest club in the world then you do not necessarily have the finances to afford a new stadium.

Besides nobody is saying "we don't have any money". What people are saying is "we don't have enough money at the moment to compete with tthe top 3 teams".

 

[freeeki]

We have lots of money. We'd have more if we ditched our dead-wood bench-warmers.

We need to SPEND it, not make more.

It's not difficult to comprehend.

 

[Spur-of-the-moment]

Catch 22 means a no win situation....

there is nothing No-win about building a new stadium for the right price.

Even building a new stadium will not get us there. It will put us in a better position, but will not pave the way for CL qualification as some people think. Every year that passes by, the five richer clubs than us (Man U, Chelsea, Ars*nal, Liverpool and Man City) will increase the gap between their spending power and ours.

The new stadium is necessary, but it is not sufficient. We can only use the stadium as a platform for further revenue growth, much of which comes from CL participation, the global profile that results and the commercial income that accrues. This is where the Catch-22 comes in. You won't attract the very best players unless you are in the CL, but you won't get into the CL without the very best players.

Yes, we've done it once, but so did Everton once. We could do it while Liverpool were in trouble - but now they are recovering fast. We could do it while Man City were gelling, but they gelled last year.

So here's the model. Though a new stadium will put us ahead of the rest, we will be competing with five other richer clubs than us for just 4 CL spots. How do we continue to compete those few years down the line when their income will still be significantly greater than ours and when occasional CL qualification will not be enough to get the best players?

The hope will be in the training ground and academy. Spurs should invest a significant proportion of their increased revenues in attracting the very best players to the academy and youth development set-ups. They are slowly building a global reach to make this more realisable. Like Ars*nal they will invest in training personnel and incentives to make London-based youth development attractive. The process has already started and we punch above our weight in this respect, so the extra income will give us a boost. However, as we have seen, the Ars*nal model does not win trophies, but at least it keeps them in the CL.

The trouble is that the Man City and Chelsea sugar daddies will do more, the global brands of Liverpool and Man Utd will count for more and Ars*nal will keep plugging away, especially as the Emirates money machine becomes more powerful as the debts are paid off.

So the stadium and academy does not guarantee anything, especially against clubs with bigger resources and/or brands. But at least we will have pulled away from the rest and may scrape into 4th spot every now and again.

Only a combination of canny financial management, innovative training at the academy and a good manager, as well as a huge slice of good luck, will see us kick on to the next level.

 

[Spur-of-the-moment]

This is why the OS would be a huge win for Spurs as a club. But try tell that to the WeAreN17 lot!!!!

It was never going to happen - an impossible bid.

It will never happen.

With a fair wind, the RGF grant, some loans at preferential rates, maybe an Enterprise Zone, we can make progress with the NDP and forget that the wild goose chase of Stratford ever happened.

 

[Spur-of-the-moment]

Where do these routine "we don't have any money" assumptions come from?

Aren't we something in the region of 12th richest club in the world?

The sixth richest in the Premier League, which will be the case even when a new stadium comes on tap.

 

[kishman]

This is why the OS would be a huge win for Spurs as a club. But try tell that to the WeAreN17 lot!!!!

I'm sure most people (like myself) who opposed to the move understood that. But you don't understand the WeAreN17 lot.