Referee scrutiny

[Oscar22]

Whilst not completely brought on by the Laporte cup final double yellow situation, it has brought this issue back to the front of my thinking.

It really irks me that referees are not under more scrutiny. All we ever hear is what a hard job it is, and I get that, to an extent anyway. I understand that if you’re the bloke in the middle of 22 others and you give the decisions either way then you’re likely going to be unpopular.
However in every other profession what you do and your performance in doing it is always under review, why should it be any different here?

Yesterdays cup final saw Paul Tierney give one of the worst refereeing performances I’ve ever seen, and there’s been some shockers. It should be said I think he got decisions wrong for both sides as well, I don’t necessarily feel he favoured one side, more his performance was so bad overall that he actually made a mess of the entire game.

Managers and players get fined if they criticise a referee or their performance. Fined a good sum of money if they do and therefore most stay quiet more often than not.

Now I’m not saying it should be open season, and of course people shouldn’t be allowed to openly abuse refs. None of that changes, but why can a manager not come out in an interview after the game and say “I felt the referee was poor today”. It is after all just an opinion.

I don’t think players should surround refereeS and hound them like Liverpool and United do. However I do feel there should be a way to review their performance so the best refs get the most important games.

I think we should have an independent panel (as far as possible) made up of a group of people who score each ref each game on a points basis. This informs a refs league table, the higher you are the more likely you are to get the big games and cup finals. The lower scorers have to ref lower league games until their score has consistency as such that it’s felt they get another crack at the higher league games.

I haven’t entirely thought out what they would be scored on yet, but curious to know what everyone thinks - should refs have more scrutiny? Should managers be allowed to call refs out on their errors? Where does VAR fit into that scrutiny?

Genuinely curious to see people’s views on this.

 

[Serpico]

Refereeing is the poorest ive ever seen it. Refs have no authority and its their fault. Theyve allowed players too much freedom to take the piss. They allow too many silly things to pass. Players kicking the ball away, foul throws, players falling over, players walking away when they are getting book. There ard loads of situations where the ref needs to take control and maybe then earn some respect. How many times does a ref hurry a subtute off the pitch pointing at his watch. Does the player hurry up, no. Is time added, no. Players need to learn respecr, refs need to earn respect.

 

[Shadydan]

VAR is making refs look utter shit or actually showing them up for what they truly are.

 

[Serpico]

Over the weekend i watch the liverpool game (last 30 mins) and WHU second half up to the sending off and in both games there was poor and lazy refereeing. Lack of control and taking the easy way out has become the norm. I would book players from the off. None of this being friendly nice stuff, a foul is a foul and zero tolerance.

 

[Coneilly]

Whilst not completely brought on by the Laporte cup final double yellow situation, it has brought this issue back to the front of my thinking.

It really irks me that referees are not under more scrutiny. All we ever hear is what a hard job it is, and I get that, to an extent anyway. I understand that if you’re the bloke in the middle of 22 others and you give the decisions either way then you’re likely going to be unpopular.
However in every other profession what you do and your performance in doing it is always under review, why should it be any different here?

Yesterdays cup final saw Paul Tierney give one of the worst refereeing performances I’ve ever seen, and there’s been some shockers. It should be said I think he got decisions wrong for both sides as well, I don’t necessarily feel he favoured one side, more his performance was so bad overall that he actually made a mess of the entire game.

Managers and players get fined if they criticise a referee or their performance. Fined a good sum of money if they do and therefore most stay quiet more often than not.

Now I’m not saying it should be open season, and of course people shouldn’t be allowed to openly abuse refs. None of that changes, but why can a manager not come out in an interview after the game and say “I felt the referee was poor today”. It is after all just an opinion.

I don’t think players should surround refereeS and hound them like Liverpool and United do. However I do feel there should be a way to review their performance so the best refs get the most important games.

I think we should have an independent panel (as far as possible) made up of a group of people who score each ref each game on a points basis. This informs a refs league table, the higher you are the more likely you are to get the big games and cup finals. The lower scorers have to ref lower league games until their score has consistency as such that it’s felt they get another crack at the higher league games.

I haven’t entirely thought out what they would be scored on yet, but curious to know what everyone thinks - should refs have more scrutiny? Should managers be allowed to call refs out on their errors? Where does VAR fit into that scrutiny?

Genuinely curious to see people’s views on this.

Mike Dean was on the peter crouch podcast a while back and confirmed thats pretty much how they do it already

 

[bubble07]

Back in the day the ref would call out s player by their shirt number. Now they are calling them by their nicknames

 

[bubble07]

But if you are a ref and you have a league table for them if the ref is bottom it will undermine him even more

 

[Nerine]

What I don’t understand is that I can be watching a game that doesn’t even involve us (so there’s no bias) and still I am utterly confused and dumbfounded by some of the refereeing decisions that are made.

Like, I can watch the footage and the ref can watch the footage and not come to the same conclusion when, to me at least, there should be only one way the decision should go, or only one net outcome of the incident or situation.

Refs are also duped and blow up far too easily. They should know more than anyone that players dive and go down with no contact whatsoever, yet they largely always give in to it and dish out free kicksconstantly.

It’s fucking abysmal.


And VAR? An utter catastrophe. Ruined the game. The decisions are shit even with the technology. It’s inconsistent, seems to be used at some times but not others, still can’t get decisions correct etc.

Like, I don’t understand how it can be so incompetent and thoroughly poor throughout.

I get why it was introduced to a point, but some of the decisions are complete tosh and utterly laughable and/or bent.

 

[Serpico]

Refs should be made to go into both changing rooms before the game and inform both teams there will be zero tolerance. Then the players are responsible for thier actions. This includes every action, unsporting behaviour and back chat.

I cant stand when the ball runs over the line for a throw and the player then kicks it away then runs off without challange. Its pure petulance.

 

[robbiedee]

Refereeing has definitely got worse since the introduction of VAR. It seems even with the video evidence to support on field decisions, they still can't make the right call. Maybe refs feel their authority is undermined by VAR and make bad calls as a kind of protest and a way of saying 'I'm in charge of this game', but saying that, there are times when it feels like the Ref and the guy in Stockley Park are in the cahoots and conspire together to make shit calls.

As spineless as Spurs were on Sunday, and based on that performance alone we didn't deserve anything, the Ref did make some shocking decisions. The 2 Laporte blocks, the first should have been a yellow. Dias did something similar and got away with it. With 2 CB's on yellows, it changes the game slightly but they got away with it. Also moments before City's goal, up the other end of the pitch Reguilon was brought down and trod on and yet nothing from Tierney.


But I'm over Sunday now...

 

['O Zio]

Refs should be made to go into both changing rooms before the game and inform both teams there will be zero tolerance. Then the players are responsible for thier actions. This includes every action, unsporting behaviour and back chat.

I cant stand when the ball runs over the line for a throw and the player then kicks it away then runs off without challange. Its pure petulance.

To be fair I believe they do have a chat with both teams before the game anyway

A big part of the problem is that the refs don't actually enforce a lot of the rules that are in place, especially when it comes to the petulant stuff and talking back as you say.

I've said for years they should take a leaf out of rugby's book and only allow the captain to talk to the ref unless spoken to and started actually carding people who broke that rule. If you look at the interactions between refs and players in rugby Vs football it's a real breath of fresh air. They should start the season saying that any backchat or disrespect would be a yellow card, then actually enforce it properly, and you could cut down all the nonsense virtually overnight.

The first weekend would be a bit of a farce because you'd inevitably have shit loads of yellows getting thrown around but once the players and managers realise they're serious about it this time, it would stop overnight.

 

[Marty]

Calling for further scrutiny of referees is the reason we now have VAR, don't forget how incensed people were over the refereeing in the last season before VAR where fans were suggesting that refs were making mistakes on purpose to ensure that VAR was brought in.

The scrutiny was already there, it's the measures taken to fix and help the referees that has gone badly wrong.

 

[Serpico]

To be fair I believe they do have a chat with both teams before the game anyway

A big part of the problem is that the refs don't actually enforce a lot of the rules that are in place, especially when it comes to the petulant stuff and talking back as you say.

I've said for years they should take a leaf out of rugby's book and only allow the captain to talk to the ref unless spoken to and started actually carding people who broke that rule. If you look at the interactions between refs and players in rugby Vs football it's a real breath of fresh air. They should start the season saying that any backchat or disrespect would be a yellow card, then actually enforce it properly, and you could cut down all the nonsense virtually overnight.

The first weekend would be a bit of a farce because you'd inevitably have shit loads of yellows getting thrown around but once the players and managers realise they're serious about it this time, it would stop overnight.

I watch a lot of Basketball with my son and the refs there are 100% respected as well so it is possible for players to respect officials .

Little punishments as, free kicks should be rewarded for kicking the ball away when it goes off or moved forward 10 yards if a kick has already been awarded. Something has to be done because football as a spectacle is dying or is it diving on its feet

 

[TheChosenOne]

Refereeing has definitely got worse since the introduction of VAR. It seems even with the video evidence to support on field decisions, they still can't make the right call. Maybe refs feel their authority is undermined by VAR and make bad calls as a kind of protest and a way of saying 'I'm in charge of this game', but saying that, there are times when it feels like the Ref and the guy in Stockley Park are in the cahoots and conspire together to make shit calls.

As spineless as Spurs were on Sunday, and based on that performance alone we didn't deserve anything, the Ref did make some shocking decisions. The 2 Laporte blocks, the first should have been a yellow. Dias did something similar and got away with it. With 2 CB's on yellows, it changes the game slightly but they got away with it. Also moments before City's goal, up the other end of the pitch Reguilon was brought down and trod on and yet nothing from Tierney.


But I'm over Sunday now...

I'm not yet able to let go of the 1983 League Cup Final, the 1987 FA Cup final and the 2019 Champions League Final.

I don't think I ever will be.
.
Sunday and other lost finals and semi's are dead to me though.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Putting this here ...
.

 

[fortworthspur]

looks like the NBA to me - the big clubs/big players get the benefit of the doubt. The Laporte thing doesnt bother me because he doesnt make that second foul if he's on a yellow.

 

[Mornstar]

I've been saying for years that match officials are impartial in their decision making. Some of the officiating in the psg man city game was beyond a joke. Two oil rich Arab clubs, wouldn't be surprised.

Of course the highly moral and ethical british/US club owners would never dream of doing anything corrupt!

 

[LeParisien]

I've been saying for years that match officials are impartial in their decision making. Some of the officiating in the psg man city game was beyond a joke. Two oil rich Arab clubs, wouldn't be surprised.

Of course the highly moral and ethical british/US club owners would never dream of doing anything corrupt!

What was a joke yesterday?

 

[mr ashley]

looks like the NBA to me - the big clubs/big players get the benefit of the doubt. The Laporte thing doesnt bother me because he doesnt make that second foul if he's on a yellow.

The thing that’s missed with this (and by Martin Tyler on the day) is that if Laporte doesn’t make the second foul because he’s already booked, it allows Lucas to run behind the defence. And maybe even score.... it’s not that impossible to believe

 

[fortworthspur]

The thing that’s missed with this (and by Martin Tyler on the day) is that if Laporte doesn’t make the second foul because he’s already booked, it allows Lucas to run behind the defence. And maybe even score.... it’s not that impossible to believe

yeah I get that.