Premier League 2023/2024

[Marty]

Would probably include Chelsea in that too.

And let's not forget Sterling diving twice at ours and not being punished for it despite the referee waving away the penalty appeal both times..

That was what pissed me off the most about the Romero red. The first thing that happens and the ref should blow up for, is Sterling's dive. If that call is made immediately, none of the rest of it happens.

 

[stonecolddeanaustin]

Would probably include Chelsea in that too.

And let's not forget Sterling diving twice at ours and not being punished for it despite the referee waving away the penalty appeal both times..

That's the thing isn't it, it's almost zero risk. You're very unlikely to get booked (unless you're Bissouma) and there's a 50/50 chance you get a pen. You'd be stupid not to go down these days. The ref's have made this situation themselves.

 

[spurs mental]

That's the thing isn't it, it's almost zero risk. You're very unlikely to get booked (unless you're Bissouma) and there's a 50/50 chance you get a pen. You'd be stupid not to go down these days. The ref's have made this situation themselves.

Saka's dive last week v West Ham unpunished too. They're just far too inconsistent.

 

[Thenewcat]

It surprises me how people can't understand that the teams that have far more possession of the ball than their opponents will also have more decisions and by proxy more contentious decisions go their way. That's just basic maths and probability isn't it?

You’re right, which is why this makes interesting reading. Last time I checked we had the most touches in the box of anyone

Premier League - Penalties received

Diese Statistik der Premier League gibt Aufschluss, welcher Verein die meisten Elfmeter in der 23/24 erhalten hat und es wird zusätzlich die Erfolgsquote angezeigt.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

 

[Dov67]

I do think when you’ve got really high profile coaches giving out about refereeing decisions, like Klopp, or like Mourinho or Ferguson in the past, it must plant a seed of doubt in the minds of the officials. Maybe just somewhere in the back of their minds. But because we’re talking about split second decisions in the heat of the moment, that little bit of doubt might be the difference between giving a pen or not giving one, or playing for a few seconds more or blowing for full time.

100%

These managers kick up a stink not just because that is their nature but also because there is an advantage for their clubs in future games by doing so.

Klopp got ridiculed in some quarters for calling for a replay after our game, but just look at the contentious VAR decisions that have gone their way since.

Corruption takes many forms, and is not solely limited to brown paper bags stuffed with £50 notes, or secret numbered swiss bank accounts. Corruption is also refereeing with an agenda, with one eye on what the pundits or papers will say about a particular decision after the game

 

[jurgen]

You’re right, which is why this makes interesting reading. Last time I checked we had the most touches in the box of anyone

Premier League - Penalties received

Diese Statistik der Premier League gibt Aufschluss, welcher Verein die meisten Elfmeter in der 23/24 erhalten hat und es wird zusätzlich die Erfolgsquote angezeigt.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

Couldn't find that stat again, but we have the second most penalty box shots behind Liverpool.

Interestingly, we're apparently the most fouled team in the league according to whoscored, fouled 1.7 times more per game than the next team - for context 1.7 is the same gap between 2nd (Villa) and 7th (City).

So statistically we get kicked around a lot, yet we've seen how few yellows our opponents have received in many matches.

 

[rossdapep]

I do think when you’ve got really high profile coaches giving out about refereeing decisions, like Klopp, or like Mourinho or Ferguson in the past, it must plant a seed of doubt in the minds of the officials. Maybe just somewhere in the back of their minds. But because we’re talking about split second decisions in the heat of the moment, that little bit of doubt might be the difference between giving a pen or not giving one, or playing for a few seconds more or blowing for full time.

Yeah Fergie would put refs on blast and under real pressure back in the day.

Any ref going to OT and having to decide a 50/50 penalty is going to favour United cause if they didnt give it, they'd know Fergie would be waiting.

The influence he had was ridiculous and I am sure he got refs taken off United games or demoted due to it.

As a ref that is going to play on your mind.

Jose was the same. Scrutinise and apply pressure, create a narrative "We dont get decisions" blah blah blah.

It then leads to some form of over correction.

I don't think there is a conspiracy nor is there bias, refs just get scared of the scrutiny.

Tottenham. We don't complain and we don't make a bug fuss over these calls, which explains why refs are probably more relaxed about not giving us 50/50s or close penalty calls. They have a clearer head and dont feel pressure.

Yet the following week, they go to Anfield and know that Klopp will rage about it and it'll be hot topic for a few days, so they buckle.

The rightful thing for scenarios like that Jota dive should be - No pen, no yellow for diving. The initial contact was not enough to take him down and that was proven as he took 2 steps before he decided to buckle his foot and go down.

I keep pushing this but they need to budge the rules on penalties, clamp down on it by not giving pens for slight contact in non-scoring scenarios and players will slowly have to adjust and stay in their feet longer.

The football decision makers (FIFA too) just aren't brave enough with it. They let it creep in so much so that it is now considered part of the game and ruined the art of defending.

 

[Cochise]

I reckon West Ham win tonight. They know how to counter possession sides.

They've also started winning games against the lesser teams and really should be in the conversation for UCL places. They might struggle to maintain their form once the European comps start back up, especially if they go deep in to their competition but for now they look strong.

 

[Marty]

I reckon West Ham win tonight. They know how to counter possession sides.

They've also started winning games against the lesser teams and really should be in the conversation for UCL places. They might struggle to maintain their form once the European comps start back up, especially if they go deep in to their competition but for now they look strong.

At the moment, and especially given injuries and fitness, they are a better team than Brighton. I don't like them being so close to us but they are mostly playing well atm, Fulham thrashing aside.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

Someone mentioned it earlier, but for me the issue is largely around VAR and how refs are falling back on it to vindicate wrong decisions. Both penalty decisions last night were looked at by VAR and deemed not to be a clear and obvious error.......however, if both penalties had not been given by the ref then VAR would still have said no clear and obvious error - you really can't have it both ways, but that is what VAR is doing!

 

[Graham Minshall]

I think officials have got into a difficult position re contact in the box. The two ends of the spectrum are easy; get properly clattered - obviously a penalty. Clear daylight - obviously a dive. So far, so uncontroversial.

But when the contact is minimal VAR/refs are having to make a qualitative rather than quantative decision, and the question boils down to - 'Is this player cheating? I can see there's some contact, though it wouldn't cause a rugby player to fall over if they were trying to score a try. If I say there's 'not enough contact' then I'm accusing him of cheating, on TV, in front of his home crowd. If I think he's cheated then I've also got to book him. How sure am I that he is a cheat? Hmm, not sure. Better give the penalty to be on the safe side'.

The constant scrutiny of every decision and the vitriol that follows have meant that the safe decision is actually to give the penatly if there's a little touch because it's easier to defend that than to insinuate a player is a cheat, especially in the climate now where managers can openly question the ref's integrity and simply carry on without censure.

As I posted earlier in the var thread, how can you have a clear and obvious error when every contact is subjective to a point of view, it just shows how the rules are not fit for purpose in the age of television coverage.
what I’ve advocated is it should be changed to cause and effect, was there enough contact to cause Jota to fall over 2 or 3 yards past the goalkeeper, was there enough contact between the softest part of the Burnley players boot and the hardest part of the villa players boot to cause him to fall screaming and rolling on the ground, to me those are easier decisions to make, or are we now at the stage where any contact in the area is a penalty?

 

[TheChosenOne]

It surprises me how people can't understand that the teams that have far more possession of the ball than their opponents will also have more decisions and by proxy more contentious decisions go their way. That's just basic maths and probability isn't it?

Spurs in BLUE
2019 Champions League Final

 

[SuperLuka]

I think officials have got into a difficult position re contact in the box. The two ends of the spectrum are easy; get properly clattered - obviously a penalty. Clear daylight - obviously a dive. So far, so uncontroversial.

But when the contact is minimal VAR/refs are having to make a qualitative rather than quantative decision, and the question boils down to - 'Is this player cheating? I can see there's some contact, though it wouldn't cause a rugby player to fall over if they were trying to score a try. If I say there's 'not enough contact' then I'm accusing him of cheating, on TV, in front of his home crowd. If I think he's cheated then I've also got to book him. How sure am I that he is a cheat? Hmm, not sure. Better give the penalty to be on the safe side'.

The constant scrutiny of every decision and the vitriol that follows have meant that the safe decision is actually to give the penatly if there's a little touch because it's easier to defend that than to insinuate a player is a cheat, especially in the climate now where managers can openly question the ref's integrity and simply carry on without censure.

But that doesn't happen consistently. We've had a few not given this season with far more contact maddison v shef I, son the other day when wrestled at a corner. The commentators brush it off. It's only certain teams that get these decisions.

 

[PCozzie]

But that doesn't happen consistently. We've had a few not given this season with far more contact maddison v shef I, son the other day when wrestled at a corner. The commentators brush it off. It's only certain teams that get these decisions.

Yes, should have been more clear that I meant referees officiating the 'big' teams. The higher the level of scrutiny the more likely they are to revert to a 'safety first' approach, which in that situation is to award the penalty. The opposite being the case for the 'smaller' teams, where the 'safety first' approach is to play on.

It's not universal, and it can sometimes be relative within a match(see Villa v Burnley).

 

[max cady]

What I don't get is the enthusiasm in the commentators when 'pool score compared to that of their opposition. Boarders on sickening sometimes.

 

[Gbspurs]

What I don't get is the enthusiasm in the commentators when 'pool score compared to that of their opposition. Boarders on sickening sometimes.

Peter Drury was almost sycophantically willing Salah to a hattrick yesterday. Everytime Salah took more than one touch in the box he got the "Mo Salah..... MO SALAH!!!!!!" treatment as if he'd just taken on the whole team before getting a shot away. Sickening.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Love the commentator on off-side call - "Its going to be tight..." Player was a full body ahead of the last defender.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

Brighton look like they used all their legs against us the other day, and they're so disorganised without Dunk too.

 

[jolsnogross]

Snoozefest at West Ham tonight so far. Dull as dishwater. They won't come out and Brighton won't commit more forward.
It's an advert for darts!

 

[cwy21]

I guess a draw is good for us. Terrible game to watch though.