Poch: In or Out? - You CAN change your vote

[Donki]

I’m sorry but I disagree. Toby and Jan aren’t the cause of our defensive frailties, they are still quality players. The problem is the system. How many times did Winks venture forward last night, do a 360, lose possession and then we were exposed? 4-2-3-1, Dier in front of the centre halves and we would see a different team.

Has it been so long that we forget how many times he cost us at CDM, you are reverting back to a time when we had Rose (playing well) and Walker bombing down the flanks, we don't have that outlet anymore.

 

[Shanks]

I’m sorry but I disagree. Toby and Jan aren’t the cause of our defensive frailties, they are still quality players. The problem is the system. How many times did Winks venture forward last night, do a 360, lose possession and then we were exposed? 4-2-3-1, Dier in front of the centre halves and we would see a different team.

100% agree, nothing bad on winks as he is fantastic, but he got absolutely bullied on the ball last night - was like watching a year 7 v year 11 game at times

 

[wirE]

Last night?

Yup

 

[MichaelPawson]

I like Dier, but he's always hurt and has regressed since his peak in 2015/16. I don't know what the solution to this mess is, but it's not him.

Voted Remain, but I'm judging him result-by-result now. Last night had the look of a team giving up on him and that's tough to salvage.

 

[double0]

I’m sorry but I disagree. Toby and Jan aren’t the cause of our defensive frailties, they are still quality players. The problem is the system. How many times did Winks venture forward last night, do a 360, lose possession and then we were exposed? 4-2-3-1, Dier in front of the centre halves and we would see a different team.

Winks had a bad game. He got caught on the ball a few time in dangerous positions but our CB are all over the place imo they concentrate solely on playing the ball Toby hitting long passes etc or playing it cross the back slow and ponderous but actually defending both are lacking, there not intercepting or tackling enough ( maybe they are playing for moves) both get beat for pace in the air regularly. Sanchez can actually defend wins headers blocks etc on the ball his not as good granted but at least he'd puts up a tussle and has the pace and if paired correctly ie when he did play with Vertonghen we were much more secure at the back.

 

[Donki]

Yup

Source?

The Guardian, found it.

 

[double0]

The problem isn't the CB pairing it's the lack of protection from midfield

There are acres of green space for opposition players to waltz through since the diamond has become the preferred formation

Only one person to blame for that, Poch

It's not just the midfield to stop everything defenders have to defend as well. Sissoko Winks get through a hell of a lot of work imo they're not lazy yes I think the whole team could be better overall with the press ie how many times to you see Son chase back for example?

 

[CheeseGromit]

There is a lot in this defeat that surfaces because of the start to the season
Unrest in players
Change of system
New players not settled in and/or injured
Not got a solid right back

I think it is a bit of a hangover from two windows without squad being freshened up. Think the Management Team need to freshen up as well Poch should stay but a few changes in the background staff; fresh eyes, new voices and ideas etc

Presently the system looks flawed with the players we have but Sessignon and Lo Celso may make that different

We are exposing the Full backs whatver we think about Aurier and teams are exploiting it Being compact with a man short showed how we can fight

There is no time to bed a system in NDombele Winks and Sissoko dont work Their games are not compatible

Lots to work on

 

[nailsy]

I'd like to see a similar vote just for those that go to games all the time. I wonder if the armchair fans are more keen for Poch to stay than the guys who are spending hundreds of pounds a month to go and watch us play. I'm an armchair fan myself so I'm not trying to be disparaging, I just get the impression that the people going to matches are, understandably, running out patience faster than the rest of us.

 

[McFlash]

I don't think Mourinho is anyone's first choice but should things go properly shit shaped and Poch does go, he may be the best (or only) short term option.
He's immediately available, he's proven, a big name and whether we like him or not, he's a good manager.

I just can't see many other options out there but saying all that, I'd love Poch to prove me wrong and sort this out.

 

[glacierSpurs]

If he leaves, Man U hire him the next day. That’s a problem for us. Although if he’s struggled to work with levy at times then he’s not going to like Woodward buying the players for him.

At the current state Poch in, I don't think we need to worry. He can go anywhere in the league he likes for all I care. It just shows what we have been saying about his heart not with us being true.

 

[leray]

Source?

The Guardian, found it.

Found it too:
Massimiliano Allegri learning English as he targets Manchester United job

I'm pessimistic about him joining us, to be honest.

If his entourage is spreading the news that he wants to move to Old Trafford, he probably won't be so keen on us. Levy would need to woo him.

 

[Cambridge Spur]

I'd like to see a similar vote just for those that go to games all the time. I wonder if the armchair fans are more keen for Poch to stay than the guys who are spending hundreds of pounds a month to go and watch us play. I'm an armchair fan myself so I'm not trying to be disparaging, I just get the impression that the people going to matches are, understandably, running out patience faster than the rest of us.

I don’t judge any Spurs fan, we all have very different lives and support our team in our own way but I am one of those fans spending thousands going to watch and you can understand frustrations starting to boil over. Of course I understand that the new stadium needs to be paid for but for some Spurs are more than just a team to watch, they are a huge part of their lives and you can’t deny the fact that we pay huge sums to watch our club. I would never demand success but at the same time I worry what would happen if we were to regress.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

It's a stay of execution for me. It's frustrating to see such regression and no apparent cure.

But, I'm sure Pochettino knew this was coming. He has mentioned rebuilding a few times. Perhaps not as bad as it was vs colchester, arsenal and yesterday, but he knows he has to sort the team out. It's going to take time to get back. The stadium was always going to take ages to recover and was.a.huge set back to team development. They all know it. Injuries have damned us somewhat, but I believe this is also down.to.a pre season that is just too physically demanding.

He needs to change the tactics.though, and pronto. There are signs its working, but we are just too sloppy defensively for it to work. Poch doesn't make.any changes in order to hang onto hard won leads. His stubborn streak with players and systems has always been.thus.

But I ask you to cast your minds back to pre-poch and who would be able.to.do a better job? Right now? Who would take it?

As for his comments etc etc. Im convinced he has learned from Mourinho etc. The more controversial and bs he talks about agendas and new roles blah blah blah, the less the press talk about abject performances. Deflection. Sadly, 2-7 means theres no hiding. This is going to be a long haul back to where we have become accustomed Imo. Would love to be proven wrong.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

It's not just the midfield to stop everything defenders have to defend as well. Sissoko Winks get through a hell of a lot of work imo they're not lazy yes I think the whole team could be better overall with the press ie how many times to you see Son chase back for example?

The issue currently is threefold with regard to the diamond:

1. We need the defensive midfielder to be able to drop back and split the centre backs, allowing them to support the full backs and prevent them being doubled up on; or​
2. We need the pivot (Sissoko and Ndombele in this system) to go wide off the ball while the AM (Dele) drops to split them, so that they can support the full backs and prevent them being doubled up on; and​
3. We need the front two to split off the ball and instinctively go for the opposition full backs as those are the threats, we are theoretically equipped to deal with long balls from the centre backs so they can in effect be ignored until they’ve advanced to the halfway line, as all other passing options should be closed down.​

Now, last night, Winks is not natural at point 1, so the centre backs stay narrow, so the full backs being beaten instantly leads to a chance, because Sissoko and especially Ndombele like to be in the middle, and as such Aurier and Rose are susceptible to balls in behind because the forwards (Kane and Son) are playing similarly narrow.

Dele actually is the only one last night doing the off the ball job required of him, yet somehow seems to have received the ire of many.

 

[robin09]

I don't think Mourinho is anyone's first choice but should things go properly shit shaped and Poch does go, he may be the best (or only) short term option.
He's immediately available, he's proven, a big name and whether we like him or not, he's a good manager.

I just can't see many other options out there but saying all that, I'd love Poch to prove me wrong and sort this out.

Things would have to get much, much, much worse than 1 point behind Arsenal, equal with Chelsea and 2 points above United, for a short-term Mourinho appointment to make sense.

We’ve lost to Newcastle and Bayern Munich at home.
We lost to Leicester with a 1.2cm offside changing the game. Our reserves lost to Colchester in the League cup.

It’s hardly ‘smash glass for jose’ time.

 

[spursgirls]

Last night?

He wants Man Utd though, not Tottenham. He was probably there just to increase his knowledge of premier teams for when he goes to Man Utd.

 

[glacierSpurs]

Winners tend to be horrible...I’m sick of being the nice guys

Might as well right, since like we are so hated by many.

 

[Donki]

He wants Man Utd though, not Tottenham. He was probably there just to increase his knowledge of premier teams for when he goes to Man Utd.

Do you think United want Poch? I still think they do.

 

[Karol]

It's not just the midfield to stop everything defenders have to defend as well. Sissoko Winks get through a hell of a lot of work imo they're not lazy yes I think the whole team could be better overall with the press ie how many times to you see Son chase back for example?

You said that "Verts has been poor his partnership with Toby has become a liability from last season we've lost far to many games with that pairing"

It's not fair to say their partnership has become a liability, no CB pairing for any club would fare very well with so little protection

I specifically didn't mention Sissoko or Winks, or any player or midfielder
I wrote midfield, the midfield area, Poch should be able to change things in game to plug the holes but chooses not to do so

The liability as I see it is Poch and his mule like stubborness in persisting with the current set up