Player Watch Player Watch: Yves Bissouma

[thehipster]

Anyone saying to bin or get rid I just cant take you seriously. We are supposed to be supporters but 1 or 2 things dont go right and you instantly ditch all support and bring the pitch forks out. The same people will be crying about there is no loyalty in the game when one of our players wants to leave. Was it stupid? Yes but grow up and stop overreacting.

Here here.
It’s a bit like watching one of your kids make a few mistakes (because they’re human ) and then deciding you’re going to give them up for adoption because they’re not perfect!

Like any human, we’re fallible. We’re constantly needing to evolve.
So we work ‘with’ them to get to the root cause of the reaction…and then put in place in a different strategy.

We don’t simply dump them because they don’t match ridiculously high and delusional expectations of certain fans.

 

[neogenisis]

They haven't though, that's the problem.

One ref will still book for it and another won't bother.
Saw someone booked for it last week.

Yates is a footballing *Terrier* as they call it. He did well hounding and harassing, however he committed many little fouls and was trying his best to get players booked and kept on at the ref every moment he could, he waved the imaginary card about a few times in truth and the Ref let it go. As with EVERYTHING with Refs, we need the consitency.

 

[spurs mental]

I think we should appeal the red, personally. I don't think it was malicious and there were challenges last night that went unpunished in comparison. Yates also being allowed to wave his imaginary card without punishment.

Slow motion makes things look worse. He barely touches Yates in the challenge.

And even if its a "frivolous appeal" or whatever they call it and ban him for an extra game, he's not going to be here anyway, so what have we got to lose?

 

[Phantom]

I also think Yates got a tiny touch that moved the ball away. Without that touch, Bissouma gets the ball and it's a yellow at worst.

This video shows it, slow it down to 0.25 speed and you can see Yates gets to it first and without the touch I reckon Bissouma gets the ball. Its a glancing clash to the knee as well, he isn't stamping his foot downwards, his foot is rising because he was trying to clear the ball. It also looks like he is trying to maybe pull out of it.

I think it is a harsh red, it isn't particularly late, it is not really forceful, he is not out of control etc but the studs are up and it is high. I think a yellow was the correct decision, how this is a red but Nketiah escaped I have no idea. Without VAR I probably would accept a red card for it the Yves challenge but the inconsistency is absolutely insane.

I actually missed the game so only going on the replays that I can find online, that video from that angle suggests he is very close to getting the ball but not seen many other angles.

 

[Yiddo100]

This video shows it, slow it down to 0.25 speed and you can see Yates gets to it first and without the touch I reckon Bissouma gets the ball. Its a glancing clash to the knee as well, he isn't stamping his foot downwards, his foot is rising because he was trying to clear the ball. It also looks like he is trying to maybe pull out of it.

I think it is a harsh red, it isn't particularly late, it is not really forceful, he is not out of control etc but the studs are up and it is high. I think a yellow was the correct decision, how this is a red but Nketiah escaped I have no idea. Without VAR I probably would accept a red card for it the Yves challenge but the inconsistency is absolutely insane.

I actually missed the game so only going on the replays that I can find online, that video from that angle suggests he is very close to getting the ball but not seen many other angles.

There’s a lot of ifs in there, facts are he’s late and caught the player above the knee and not even close to the ball, if it’s against us we’d be screaming for a red.

 

[yido_number1]

Udogies was never a yellow. Awful officiating yet again. He can count himself extremely unlucky to get booked for that

Udogies was stupid it was in his back and didn't need to do it. Harsh yellow for sure but the ref deemed it as breaking up an attack.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

It’s not a harsh red under the new slo-mo VAR.

But it is also not the kind of dangerous or reckless play that people should be losing their heads over. The Cash tackle was far more dangerous and reckless, for instance. And that was not even a red.

it was unfortunate timing for Bissouma who undoubtedly thought he would get to the ball first. In the pace and split timing of the match - it’s just one of those things that happened. We accept it and move on.

No need to denigrate the player

 

[C1w8]

I thought i was on my own thinking that. Perhaps I'm biased and wrong but i didn't think it was a red. He just scrapped Yates with his toes. It wasn't the full sole and studs ala Romero. In any Saturday or Sunday game that's never a red in my opinion.

Not sure I agree with some posts about his form here, I think we will miss him greatly.

I also didnt think it was a red. One of those ones where whatever the ref called it should have stuck as it was close, and the ref called it yellow.

As for general accumulation of yellows without tallying up i do feel like we're getting slightly more than normal but its going to be part and parcel of playing a high risk system imo as we leave ourselves open defensively so when we do make a foul it is often stopping what would be a good situation for the opposition.

Im hoping bissouma maybe playing within himself for Afcon as others have said and his form picks up after, and if not we have bentancour and madders back in the fold by then hopefully also.

 

[Phantom]

There’s a lot of ifs in there, facts are he’s late and caught the player above the knee and not even close to the ball, if it’s against us we’d be screaming for a red.

To be a pedant not a single "if" is included but the only real if type statement relates to Yates getting the ball or not. Being SUPER pedantic the foot was below the knee, although it is certainly far too high in any case.

The other points are the sorts of considerations that are normally factored in. Again my main point is that there have been far worse tackles this season which have not seen a red after a VAR check.

If you look at the Romero red, he gets complete contact with the ball but the ref/VAR considered there was intent hence the red. There are numerous considerations which go into making a decision and in this case I think personally it was harsh.

 

[Yiddo100]

Udogies was stupid it was in his back and didn't need to do it. Harsh yellow for sure but the ref deemed it as breaking up an attack.

That’s a shoulder to shoulder for me

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Udogies definitely started out shoulder to shoulder- but the little push out with his arm, and officials are likely to call that a foul. Harsh yellow though, since Udogie wasn’t beat for pace, he just got a little physical.

 

[Japhet]

I also didnt think it was a red. One of those ones where whatever the ref called it should have stuck as it was close, and the ref called it yellow.

As for general accumulation of yellows without tallying up i do feel like we're getting slightly more than normal but its going to be part and parcel of playing a high risk system imo as we leave ourselves open defensively so when we do make a foul it is often stopping what would be a good situation for the opposition.

Im hoping bissouma maybe playing within himself for Afcon as others have said and his form picks up after, and if not we have bentancour and madders back in the fold by then hopefully also.

It's very inconsistent when you look at how many soft yellow cards Bissouma and Udogie in particular have accumulated compared to some of the treatment our players have received with no sanction (or not enough). Seems to have ramped right up since the Liverpool game too, or maybe it's just a coincidence.

 

[RuskyM]

This is a bit like the Romero debate. I’m not saying sell either of them; I’m asking for them to stop doing daft things that get them suspended. They’re meant to be the bedrock of the team and they can’t be that if they’re out every other week.

 

[Impspur1]

This is a bit like the Romero debate. I’m not saying sell either of them; I’m asking for them to stop doing daft things that get them suspended. They’re meant to be the bedrock of the team and they can’t be that if they’re out every other week.

That’s the problem, we have 2 of our best players sat in the stand instead of being on the pitch. Injuries can’t be helped but indiscipline can.

 

[dontcallme]

Here here.
It’s a bit like watching one of your kids make a few mistakes (because they’re human ) and then deciding you’re going to give them up for adoption because they’re not perfect!

Like any human, we’re fallible. We’re constantly needing to evolve.
So we work ‘with’ them to get to the root cause of the reaction…and then put in place in a different strategy.

We don’t simply dump them because they don’t match ridiculously high and delusional expectations of certain fans.

Damn, better apologise to the kids I had adopted. If I can find them.

 

[rossdapep]

It’s not a harsh red under the new slo-mo VAR.

But it is also not the kind of dangerous or reckless play that people should be losing their heads over. The Cash tackle was far more dangerous and reckless, for instance. And that was not even a red.

it was unfortunate timing for Bissouma who undoubtedly thought he would get to the ball first. In the pace and split timing of the match - it’s just one of those things that happened. We accept it and move on.

No need to denigrate the player

This part here highlights my grievances with these decisions.

How many times have we seen a player get well ahead of an opposing player and that player lash out. Think Cash on Bentancur and Shaw on Lucas.

These are not deemed dangerous. But in the modern game they ate incredibly dangerous.

Play moves fast and players twost and turn.

Hacking down a player cause he is better or has got past you is with malicious intent. You are trying to hurt them and stop them.

Yet challenges that are with force but are also attempts at getting the ball are immediately scrutinised and penalised. I have no issue with heavy tackles because sometimes it is called for, as long as that playee is skilled at it, it is a genuine attempt at the ball and the player can control it to a degree.

I dont think Bissouma's was particularly dangerous and it was a genuine attempt. But its where his leg hits Yates' which has caused the belief it was reckless.

However we are seeing players get away with scissor tackles (Nketiah vs us) and this is one of the most reckless and dangerous tackles to make cause it causes ankle/knee twists etc.

Stamps are potential leg breakers too so Romero probably got away with one but again that was clumsy.

But far too many players are making snide fouls which can be dangerous but getting away with them cause there is less 'excessive force'.

Although I have no idea why Bissouma can get a red and the Forest player get away with a very similar one on Porro

 

[Japhet]

This part here highlights my grievances with these decisions.

How many times have we seen a player get well ahead of an opposing player and that player lash out. Think Cash on Bentancur and Shaw on Lucas.

These are not deemed dangerous. But in the modern game they ate incredibly dangerous.

Play moves fast and players twost and turn.

Hacking down a player cause he is better or has got past you is with malicious intent. You are trying to hurt them and stop them.

Yet challenges that are with force but are also attempts at getting the ball are immediately scrutinised and penalised. I have no issue with heavy tackles because sometimes it is called for, as long as that playee is skilled at it, it is a genuine attempt at the ball and the player can control it to a degree.

I dont think Bissouma's was particularly dangerous and it was a genuine attempt. But its where his leg hits Yates' which has caused the belief it was reckless.

However we are seeing players get away with scissor tackles (Nketiah vs us) and this is one of the most reckless and dangerous tackles to make cause it causes ankle/knee twists etc.

Stamps are potential leg breakers too so Romero probably got away with one but again that was clumsy.

But far too many players are making snide fouls which can be dangerous but getting away with them cause there is less 'excessive force'.

Although I have no idea why Bissouma can get a red and the Forest player get away with a very similar one on Porro

Stupid that it's deemed 'non dangerous' when the player has to leave the pitch and is subsequently ruled out for months. The rules are there to protect players, so protect them FFS!!

 

[mil1lion]

It’s not a harsh red under the new slo-mo VAR.

But it is also not the kind of dangerous or reckless play that people should be losing their heads over. The Cash tackle was far more dangerous and reckless, for instance. And that was not even a red.

it was unfortunate timing for Bissouma who undoubtedly thought he would get to the ball first. In the pace and split timing of the match - it’s just one of those things that happened. We accept it and move on.

No need to denigrate the player

This is the issue though, fouls shouldn't be reviewed in slow motion. Football doesn't happen in slow motion and they should watch in real time to make a correct decision. They only need slow motion for handball and offside.

 

[theShiznit]

That’s a shoulder to shoulder for me

Either way it's not a booking.

But the demanding of the booking is and wasn't.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Either way it's not a booking.

But the demanding of the booking is and wasn't.

Udogie barged him, and put his leg across him at the same time. A soft foul but also an avoidable one. On its own it’s not worrying, but with Cuti and Biss both also seemingly card magnets I’m concerned that the culture is too focused on aggression. That’s down to the Coach to address…