Player Watch: Pierre-Emile Højbjerg

[AllReb]

He was involved in a few alcohol related incidents in his time at Dundee. Appears to love a drink and a scrap.

Don’t we all?

 

[sausage]

Journeyman is a term used to describe someone who is "competent," not someone who has travelled a lot.

Until recently, that described Henderson to a tee.

Indeed, in older English a 'journey' meant a day's shift (journee in french, like 'jour' for day). A journeyman was the equivalent of a contractor, in that they got paid by the day, instead of salaried etc. So journeyman is a day-shift-man.

Of course back then, these 'contractor' types did what they did because they were good at it.

(These days a contractor (at least in IT) seems to be someone who gets a job at a mega day rate, bumbles about until someone finds out they are crap (6 months normally), then they bugger off to the next gullible company.)

 

[razzmaster]

This has blown my mind. You learn something new
.....

Something new indeed. Not totally correct but certainly new

Journeyman (sports) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

Something new indeed. Not totally correct but certainly new

Journeyman (sports) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I'll go by the British definition.

 

[Yid]

Good, just like Sandro used to.

Indeed! ???

 

[Bulletspur]

Personally I'm always very suspicious of these kinds of claims. The players will always credit the coach etc. But I think I had Klopp not signed so many good players, like Salah, Mane, Fabinho and VVD, then Liverpool would have just remained a top 6 club and the likes of Henderson would still not be that highly rated.

Give Henderson the exact same coaching, but with Everton's squad and I think his reputation would be the same it was a few years ago.

To be honest I never rated Dier as a DM and didn't think that much of big Vic either. But stick them in a team with prime Jan, Toby, Eriksen, Kane and Dembele and their reputations far out grow their ability. Had either of those two been playing as the DM next to Ryan Mason, Fazio, Soldado etc and I think they look as bad as they did last season.

Where have you been @joey55 ? Its been a long time!

 

[DJS]

Personally I'm always very suspicious of these kinds of claims. The players will always credit the coach etc. But I think I had Klopp not signed so many good players, like Salah, Mane, Fabinho and VVD, then Liverpool would have just remained a top 6 club and the likes of Henderson would still not be that highly rated.

Give Henderson the exact same coaching, but with Everton's squad and I think his reputation would be the same it was a few years ago.

To be honest I never rated Dier as a DM and didn't think that much of big Vic either. But stick them in a team with prime Jan, Toby, Eriksen, Kane and Dembele and their reputations far out grow their ability. Had either of those two been playing as the DM next to Ryan Mason, Fazio, Soldado etc and I think they look as bad as they did last season.

Agree regarding Henderson as find him to be overhyped and bang-average.

Dier was also really only a competent defence midfielder and did have Dembele alongside him.

But Wanyama I disagree as in his prime he was top class and certainly one of our best players a lot of times in that debut season.

 

[Timberwolf]

Personally I'm always very suspicious of these kinds of claims. The players will always credit the coach etc. But I think I had Klopp not signed so many good players, like Salah, Mane, Fabinho and VVD, then Liverpool would have just remained a top 6 club and the likes of Henderson would still not be that highly rated.

Give Henderson the exact same coaching, but with Everton's squad and I think his reputation would be the same it was a few years ago.

To be honest I never rated Dier as a DM and didn't think that much of big Vic either. But stick them in a team with prime Jan, Toby, Eriksen, Kane and Dembele and their reputations far out grow their ability. Had either of those two been playing as the DM next to Ryan Mason, Fazio, Soldado etc and I think they look as bad as they did last season.

I think you have a point, although I also think Klopp massively elevates players. Mane and Salah weren't considered truly great players until they went to Liverpool: Mane in particular was seen as massively overpriced at the time and, while Salah was very decent for Roma, no-one in their right mind thought he would score 32 league goals in his first season. A similar argument could be made for VVD - he was seen as a big talent but certainly not this kind of mythical colossus of defending that he's become since joining Liverpool.

Now I'm not saying those 3 aren't hugely talented, but how much of Liverpool's success is solely down to that talent itself and how much of it is down to Klopp wringing every last drop of it out of them? To use a similar argument to yours - if Everton had signed Salah, Mane and VVD would they have suddenly become top 4 contenders? Personally, I doubt it. Everton would've no doubt improved, but I think it's the talent PLUS the Klopp's incredible ability to bring the best out of players, both in terms of system and motivation, that has brought them success, not either/or. Give the current Liverpool squad to someone like Mark Hughes or Frank Lampard and I reckon it's not getting anywhere near the league title or the CL.

If Klopp didn't put so much emphasis on the fullbacks, would Trent and Robertson have shone so much? If Klopp didn't support the wide forwards by playing such a selfless CF in Firmino, would Salah and Mane be so effective? I agree that Henderson has benefited hugely by being surrounded by better players, but equally, in order to get the best out of them, those players need to be part of a coherent system and highly motivated - which is exactly what Klopp has provided.

I agree that without their talented signings, Henderson wouldn't be so highly rated. However, I'd argue that without Klopp no-one in the entire team would be so highly rated.

 

[Ionman34]

I think you have a point, although I also think Klopp massively elevates players. Mane and Salah weren't considered truly great players until they went to Liverpool: Mane in particular was seen as massively overpriced at the time and, while Salah was very decent for Roma, no-one in their right mind thought he would score 32 league goals in his first season. A similar argument could be made for VVD - he was seen as a big talent but certainly not this kind of mythical colossus of defending that he's become since joining Liverpool.

Now I'm not saying those 3 aren't hugely talented, but how much of Liverpool's success is solely down to that talent itself and how much of it is down to Klopp wringing every last drop of it out of them? To use a similar argument to yours - if Everton had signed Salah, Mane and VVD would they have suddenly become top 4 contenders? Personally, I doubt it. Everton would've no doubt improved, but I think it's the talent PLUS the Klopp's incredible ability to bring the best out of players, both in terms of system and motivation, that has brought them success, not either/or. Give the current Liverpool squad to someone like Mark Hughes or Frank Lampard and I reckon it's not getting anywhere near the league title or the CL.

If Klopp didn't put so much emphasis on the fullbacks, would Trent and Robertson have shone so much? If Klopp didn't support the wide forwards by playing such a selfless CF in Firmino, would Salah and Mane be so effective? I agree that Henderson has benefited hugely by being surrounded by better players, but equally, in order to get the best out of them, those players need to be part of a coherent system and highly motivated - which is exactly what Klopp has provided.

I agree that without their talented signings, Henderson wouldn't be so highly rated. However, I'd argue that without Klopp no-one in the entire team would be so highly rated.

In other words he's improved them.

 

[Ionman34]

Journeyman is a term used to describe someone who is "competent," not someone who has travelled a lot.

Until recently, that described Henderson to a tee.

3 disagrees and a d'oh for this?
I despair at the lack of basic understanding of the English language.

Look it up in the dictionary

"any experienced, competent but routine worker or performer"

 

[Inq]

Honestly I don’t think there’s a lot of difference between PEH and journeyman. Both could fill the DM spot. I’d take either for the right price

 

[journeyman]

Indeed, in older English a 'journey' meant a day's shift (journee in french, like 'jour' for day). A journeyman was the equivalent of a contractor, in that they got paid by the day, instead of salaried etc. So journeyman is a day-shift-man.

Of course back then, these 'contractor' types did what they did because they were good at it.

(These days a contractor (at least in IT) seems to be someone who gets a job at a mega day rate, bumbles about until someone finds out they are crap (6 months normally), then they bugger off to the next gullible company.)

Indeed.

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

Thank fuck for small mercies. I’ve been plagued with anxiety for months trying to deduce the etymological roots of the much misunderstood ‘journeyman’. You smart, relevant, not remotely pedantic, well-oiled sex machines

 

[spursfan77]

I’ve had time to have a look at some of his stats now and it just backs up what I see on the pitch. I really don’t think he is going to be the answer to our prayers in the defensive midfield position. If he’s cheap (I can’t remember what we offered in January but if it’s over £15 million he’s not worth it) then fair enough, but there must be other players playing in his position in Europe that are better for around that value. It’s the easiest position on the pitch pretty much. Be in position, tackle and give the ball. If there aren’t 50 other players in the top divisions of Europe, including the PL who cant do that to a high standard then I’ll be surprised.

Name me an easier position than the water carrier?

 

[Martinhotspur]

I’ve had time to have a look at some of his stats now and it just backs up what I see on the pitch. I really don’t think he is going to be the answer to our prayers in the defensive midfield position. If he’s cheap (I can’t remember what we offered in January but if it’s over £15 million he’s not worth it) then fair enough, but there must be other players playing in his position in Europe that are better for around that value. It’s the easiest position on the pitch pretty much. Be in position, tackle and give the ball. If there aren’t 50 other players in the top divisions of Europe, including the PL who cant do that to a high standard then I’ll be surprised.

If its the easiest position on the pitch to play how come none of our current squad came play there?

 

[$hoguN]

I’ve had time to have a look at some of his stats now and it just backs up what I see on the pitch. I really don’t think he is going to be the answer to our prayers in the defensive midfield position. If he’s cheap (I can’t remember what we offered in January but if it’s over £15 million he’s not worth it) then fair enough, but there must be other players playing in his position in Europe that are better for around that value. It’s the easiest position on the pitch pretty much. Be in position, tackle and give the ball. If there aren’t 50 other players in the top divisions of Europe, including the PL who cant do that to a high standard then I’ll be surprised.

If he is the player that Mourinho wants then we should make it happen if at all possible. These stupid analysis of stats by people are utterly pointless. Mourinho wants him, believes he can do a job for us. We should back our manager and give him what he asks for where at all possible as we expect him to get results.

Also I’m going to take the tactical analysis of a manager who has won literally everything in the game over yourself. Particularly when that manager is known to be as good tactically as Jose.

 

[spursfan77]

If its the easiest position on the pitch to play how come none of our current squad came play there?

I think you’ve answered your own question. They all aren’t good enough.

 

[spursfan77]

If he is the player that Mourinho wants then we should make it happen if at all possible. These stupid analysis of stats by people are utterly pointless. Mourinho wants him, believes he can do a job for us. We should back our manager and give him what he asks for where at all possible as we expect him to get results.

Also I’m going to take the tactical analysis of a manager who has won literally everything in the game over yourself. Particularly when that manager is known to be as good tactically as Jose.

I never normally look at stats at all but did to see if it could change my mind on him from what I’ve seen watching him play and they didn’t.

As for Mourinho, I’m sure he’s not his first choice. He wanted Matic when he joined us for example. Let’s see how he does if he comes, I’ll be the first to admit I’m wrong, but I dont think he is going to solve the teams midfield problems.

 

[thekneaf]

I never normally look at stats at all but did to see if it could change my mind on him from what I’ve seen watching him play and they didn’t.

As for Mourinho, I’m sure he’s not his first choice. He wanted Matic when he joined us for example. Let’s see how he does if he comes, I’ll be the first to admit I’m wrong, but I dont think he is going to solve the teams midfield problems.

Statistics will be heavily impacted by your teams tactics.

PEH is currently instructed to run around like a maniac and then hit quick speculative passes into the channels to creare a quick transition. He'll lose possession a lot doing that, but the attackers can win second balls and attack a disorganised defence. And sometimes they win the first ball.

 

[chrissivad]

I think you’ve answered your own question. They all aren’t good enough.

If they are not good enough to play one of the easiest positions on the pitch, why have 2 international players not good enough?

I think you have vastly over simplified the role that they need to do. I would say it's one of the more difficult positions to play.

You need a good all round game (maybe not shooting) to be a top dm/cm.

Is Hojbjerg the answer, no idea.