Player Watch - Djed Spence - Genoa

[chrissivad]

Spence still has a lot of work to do on his game, but looks like he will be a good attacking RWB.

Udogie has the same issue when he just jogs back or stands watching play go on around him. Udogie can get away with it a bit more as he plays with a back 3 behind him.

If Spence plays in a back 4 for the rest of the season, it should help improve his defensive game.

 

[GutBucket]

He will do even better when Majer returns from injury, he is extremely left footed and likes to move in the middle, he will create space and chances for Spence.

 

[Dazzazzad]

I think he would have had more time if our team had performed better as a whole. Unfortunately our poor defensive performances meant he could not play Spence due to a bigger risk to our already weak defensive unit. It would have probably been more damaging for him. Saying that it’s not his fault our defence is poor. Also Romero likes to push forward and you need your wing back to cover. From last night’s performance I am not sure he has the footballing knowledge to do that.

I get not starting him due to defensive concerns but there have been games this season (most of the season!) where in the second half we were chasing games and the opposition were barely attacking. Surely a perfect situation for a guy who is offensively dynamic albeit defensively raw?

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Spence still has a lot of work to do on his game, but looks like he will be a good attacking RWB.

Udogie has the same issue when he just jogs back or stands watching play go on around him. Udogie can get away with it a bit more as he plays with a back 3 behind him.

If Spence plays in a back 4 for the rest of the season, it should help improve his defensive game.

Agree. If they can improve that side of their game they’ll be very very good wing backs. We’d benefit a lot from their pace and power and ball carrying, especially when we get pushed back deep into a 5-4-1.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Looks like Spurs fans 1-0 Conte.

As we thought conte being stubborn on this one. He has a clear view of what he wants his RWB’s to do and Spence is probably too attacking and carefree for him, sure occasionally he might cost us defensively by being a bit out of position but what he offers going forwards and in possession imo would far outweigh that and as we’ve thought all season Conte has got this one wrong, he should’ve given Spence far more game time or at least one start to try and prove himself.

By the way the 10 of you lovelies who disagree, read carefully that I said Conte should’ve given him more game time or at least one start which is what we’d all been saying the whole season long.

I’d be astonished If you really think that he didn’t deserve a single start or more than a combined amount of about 70 minutes in sub appearances across about 20 games in all competitions when for the most part of the season Doherty and Emerson have been dreadful and our defence was conceding 2 goals a game for about 10 games in a row.

People might say oh but we have to be careful when we are conceding that many, well there is also the point that perhaps it couldn’t have got much worse with spence and the fact he can actually drive us forwards and carry the ball long distances and put in dangerous crosses would’ve taken some pressure off us having to defend so deep for so much of games.

I get it he has a lot to learn and needs to track back quicker and improve a bit positionally but I stand by the opinion that he should’ve got more minutes off the bench or at least one start when Doherty and Emerson weren’t covering themselves in any glory.

Good luck to the lad at Rennes hopefully he learns and improves and he comes back next season as a fantastic option for us. ?

 

[olithfc]

I still think Spence, Gil and Sarr and possibly Udogie will only be trusted by Conte if they have had a seasons prem experience (assuming we have the same manager by then)

 

[Johnny J]

If anything his debut for Rennes suggests to me we could have used him as a right wing forward when we had no options there this season due to injury. He's got pace to burn and we badly needed someone to go past a player and get the ball up the pitch.

4 minutes in the PL for a player with such potential is ridiculous. Yes, Royal and Doherty are better defensively but we've shipped more goals than almost everyone in the league this season so far. Spence at least would have given the opposition something to worry about going forward, unlike Royal.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

He tracks back a bit slowly.

Part of that will be adjusting to a back 4. When you’re a wing back you have to get back after a raid but you do have more of a safety net with the 3 cbs and 2 dms

The other part is coaching and his own development. He needs to learn that his desire to get forward at insane speed needs to be matched with a desire to get back at speed too. Walker was amazing at these recovery runs for example.

Going forward he is insanely fast, top tier speed and he has good technique too.

Massive potential. I’d love to coach someone with his attributes.

It took Lennon a while to get this, too, but he became the best defensive winger in the league when he did. Made all our RBs look like worldies.

 

[bceej]

Could be the Danny Rose Sunderland loan for him.

 

[Yid121]

Can see why Conte held him back starting a lot of games but definitely think he should have been used him more. Good to see him getting game time as he hasn't much over his career so will hopefully help his defensive game

 

[shelflife_73]

I only saw about 20 minutes of the second half and thought he looked a really good athlete, quick and decent on the ball, but his positioning/instinct to get forward meant he was liable to get caught out, as I think he was for Lille's first goal. So yes, from a very limited amount of watching, I think he's still a good prospect with lots to learn. Can see why we loaned him rather than sold him.

 

[Whazam]

From reading the posts since the game started last night, I thought he was completely awful and uninterested defensively. That play by play video shows something completely different. It almost includes more decent defensive actions than attacking ones.

Of course, that doesn't highlight any lack of positional awareness etc (which I don't doubt was obvious for all of you who watched the game), but the tone in here made me think he wasn't even trying. Everything about that video looked very promising for someone who has barely played for 7 months.

Anyway, glad he is finally getting minutes. Was obviously the correct decision for everyone involved at this moment.

 

[Dunc2610]

Question, do Rennes play how we play is Jed being asked to play in the same way he would for us? If the answer is no, then whilst the praise he's earnt is good, it doesn't necessarily mean he should've been starting for us.

 

[chrissivad]

Question, do Rennes play how we play is Jed being asked to play in the same way he would for us? If the answer is no, then whilst the praise he's earnt is good, it doesn't necessarily mean he should've been starting for us.

They played a back 4 yesterday, so will be different.

They do play 3 at the back at times, that should suit him better

 

[Blake Griffin]

From reading the posts since the game started last night, I thought he was completely awful and uninterested defensively. That play by play video shows something completely different. It almost includes more decent defensive actions than attacking ones.

Of course, that doesn't highlight any lack of positional awareness etc (which I don't doubt was obvious for all of you who watched the game), but the tone in here made me think he wasn't even trying. Everything about that video looked very promising for someone who has barely played for 7 months.

Anyway, glad he is finally getting minutes. Was obviously the correct decision for everyone involved at this moment.

i watched the game and he was good. yes there are some parts that need ironing out but then what do you expect from a young player making his first start in months and obviously still learning. it was very reminiscent of early years kyle walker. the hyper-critical analysis is ridiculous in my view and clearly done so in a way to validate conte's decision to never play him. you could easily pick apart emerson's game or anyone else's for that matter and find faults. the rennes fans giving him a standing ovation when he went off is enough to show he wasn't quite as haphazard as some are making out.

i can guarantee that if porro puts in the same performance today, his thread will be brimming with praise and any flaws will be a footnote.

 

[wrd]

It's absurd to me that anybody can think we can analyse whether Conte was right or wrong based on 1 game and it completely ignores the importance of fitness, sharpness through continuity of games, development through experience and psychology.

This loan will not dictate whether Conte was right or wrong not to start him, that can't be figured out and the frustrating thing on the situation is that it is something that can't have been judged on the training pitch even by Conte. We all think differently and we're all motivated differently.

Some people are motivated simply to give their all like Hojbjerg, some are motivated by having a personal point to prove like Kane. For players like Spence and Dele is a key example of this, some people are motivated when they feel like people believe in them and they need to be managed carefully. I know some people will lament this but to fail to understand this is simply a lack of comprehension of how humans are different. Fergie was the master of this, you think the likes of Cantona were good trainers? Some people need to feel like you trust them before they are willing to show their true selves and then they're willing to die on the pitch for you. Sometimes players need to know they can have a bad few games and not be cast aside, some players do need dropping if their standards slip, It's a push and pull.

The idea that Spence was ever going to be ready based on what was seen on the training ground was absolutely farcical to me, it's very clear what type of person he is, he's going to be a player who for some managers he is undroppable and for others he is awful. Ravel Morrison is a really good example, he was given the opportunity and was shining and fulfilling his talent and then all of a sudden big sam broke his trust by trying to force him to switch agents so Sam could get a payday and it never recovered.

Even taking mentality out of it, you only learn to be ready for things by participating in the very thing. If we wanted Spence to be ready then we needed to put him in some games so he could get the experience. Bite off more than you can chew and chew like mad basically. Spence was doomed from the start it seems, I was hopeful Conte was happy to make Spence work, even argued with people but clearly he was never going to be fond of Spence because he was what got in the way of landing Conte the type of RWB he really wanted which was either Hakimi or equivalent and that as evidenced by Porro was a 45 mill or so outlay.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

The idea that Spence was ever going to be ready based on what was seen on the training ground was absolutely farcical to me,

Every manager in the PL would disagree with you.

Every player earns their minutes on the training ground. As soon as a manager picks a player who is being outperformed in training - the manager has lost the squad. Every player knows who is performing well in training, and who is not. And, if a manager decides training is not a factor - then everyone knows it - and that is bad news for the squad. The effort you put into training is reflected in what you do in a match - if you struggle in training, you will struggle in matches.

Sports are a meritocracy - not a charity.

 

[Spursfan1414]

Really? Or was supposed to be tongue in cheek and jokey.
There has been apage upon page discussing Spence, then he came in with a 12 second clip stating that the fans were right all along!

Sorry to have offended you on someone else's behalf.

Same post you say that other people who watch will agree with you “unless they’re completely blinded by their dislike of Conte”.

Framing it like that turns everything into an argument when it could be a reasonable disagreement, a point you understood perfectly 1 post later when it was directed at people who share your opinion:

Then you wade in using terms like "Conte lovers"....
Why does everything have to become an argument?

If you don’t want people referring to you as a “Conte lover”, match that energy and don’t accuse people who disagree of being “completely blinded by Conte dislike”. Just common courtesy to not speak to other people in a way that you’d object to being spoken to.

 

[wrd]

Every manager in the PL would disagree with you.

Every player earns their minutes on the training ground. As soon as a manager picks a player who is being outperformed in training - the manager has lost the squad. Every player knows who is performing well in training, and who is not. And, if a manager decides training is not a factor - then everyone knows it - and that is bad news for the squad. The effort you put into training is reflected in what you do in a match - if you struggle in training, you will struggle in matches.

Sports are a meritocracy - not a charity.

Evidently they wouldn't:

Rio Ferdinand: Carlos Tevez was lazy in training at Manchester United

Rio Ferdinand has accused former Manchester United team-mate Carlos Tevez of taking it easy in training before his move to Manchester City.

metro.co.uk

In January 2016, amid some outstanding form from the German, Arsene Wenger explained the secret behind keeping him at his best: “Mesut, I gave him a one-week holiday during the international break.

“He doesn’t practise a lot, we rest him a lot between the games. He is a guy who once the basic fitness is there between the games, he wants to play.”

I don't think Spence was like either of those characters except perhaps Ozil but the idea that you earn your minutes on the training ground is demonstrably false. The way you get players like Spence to train better is to put faith in them. Some people need to feel like they're believed in. This idea that everybody is going to give 100% always has never played out in real life in any environment.

 

[Spursfan1414]

Lots of people who seem to feel more confident about Conte’s decision not to use Spence at all this season after watching the game, primarily because of perceived defensive issues.

I haven’t seen a single person deny that Spence is a clear upgrade on Emerson offensively, based on this game and what he showed last season.

But that’s what Conte’s position must be, otherwise he’d have used Spence as an offensive change for Emerson in games we were losing late on when we needed to throw caution to the wind and go for it.

So for people who think this vindicates Conte’s decision, what did you see that makes you think Spence is completely useless even as an attacking alternative to Emerson?