Opinion of AVB in hindsight?

[Donki]

AVB will do well when he has all the tools he needs at a club who are expected to win in a league that isn't a top teir one.

Yes, when we are performing good, we are better than last season, but when we are performing bad, we are so so much worse than ever before.

Do you rememeber the series of hammerings we took under AVB?

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

AVB will do well when he has all the tools he needs at a club who are expected to win in a league that isn't a top teir one.


Do you rememeber the series of hammerings we took under AVB?

I don't know what you are trying to prove. The worst performances I've seen from Spurs since pre Redknapp have all been under Sherwood & Pochettino.

 

[Donki]

I don't know what you are trying to prove. The worst performances I've seen from Spurs since pre Redknapp have all been under Sherwood & Pochettino.

I respect your opinion but I dont agree.

 

[spursofthemoment]

I liked him, he got us 73 points.

 

[Shea]

@Shea Imagine being a Spurs-supporter, and the one thing that gets your blood really flowing is undermining a past head coach.

AVB was a decent manager, who did achieve better than he is remembered for. His and the boards values didn't always quite align, and he was subsequently cornered in such a way that his tenure ended, perhaps unfairly/prematurely.

Doesn't it happen with all head coaches at our club?

I hear/read certain Spurs fans undermining the likes of Redknapp and Sherwood, by the same token I hear other fans talking about how they were good and it was a mistake to let them go

No different to the discussions that go on with AVB

As I said before - I can only speak for myself, though I suspect I also speak for the other fans engaged in this debate about AVB who fall on the side of "anti AVB" who are as you say undermining him

But I am certainly not intending to undermine him - I actually like him, he was a pleasant coach for the most part and I wanted him to be successful with us. I thought at the time he was the wrong signing based on his time with Chelsea but while he was our manager I backed him and gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Even when things weren't going our way and other fans were lambasting his style of play and once Bale had gone our results as well - I continued to support him and reasoned with others that he had done enough in his first season to be afforded time to mould the squad in his image and see what he can produce

I maintained my support for him in spite of my personal opinion that he was not the man for the job right the way up to the Liverpool defeat when I declared enough enough and conceded he should be replaced.

I don't think he's shit, I don't think anyone does.

What is sparking this debate is the fan boys over rating him and using an possible ability to try and support their previous opinion that he is the best thing since sliced bread in an "I told you so way" fashion because they want to bring up old debates that have been done to death and try and prove their laboured point

What happens as a result of debate is people like myself come across as being anti AVB when we're not - just as by the same token those answer "for" AVB end up exaggerating the extent to which they rate him

Personally I think the answer re. him is relatively simple and I think if all egos were checked at the door we would all pretty much agree with this assessment of him (give or take anyway)

He's a young coach, he has shown a lot of potential by being so successful in Portugal so early in to his career. He took the wrong job at the wrong time at Chelsea and wasn't ready for the pressures that came with it, he got exposed as being out of his depth.

He then got offered our job again probably the wrong job at the wrong time for him as I think he should have dropped a level to rebuild before taking on high pressure EPL jobs at clubs with pretty dramatic expectations

In fairness to him he did pretty well in his first year, got a record points total but there were obvious signs that things were not perfect and needed to improve, it then fell to bits abit second year for one reason or another. Not least the off the field transfer activities

Now he's gone to Russia and like his time in Portugal had instant success, at a similar level - so by my evaluation he's back to showing he's a young coach proving to have a lot of potential to become a top coach in the future

I don't think he's shit and I don't think the Russian title shows he's the dogs bollocks just yet either. He is what he is, a young coach who's done well at a certain level but failed at a higher pressured one because he took it on to soon, but this does not mean after years of continuing to learn his trade (as he is now doing at Zenit and probably should have continued to do after Porto) he cannot go on to be a top class manager - of course he can, in fact the failings in England may prove to be valuable experience that in the long run provide lessons to make him a better manager than he would have been had he had everything too easy during the early years of his career

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I don't think our creativity is any better under Pochettino than it was under AVB and I think defensively we are worse.
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I don't recall us knocking 5 past Chelsea under AVB, or completely out playing Arsenal either for that matter.

I don't think we've been loads better under Pochettino in terms of creativity, but lets at least acknowledge that we have been at times. When we were looking good, we were looking streaks better in terms of the collective in the attacking sense.

We wern't scoring a goal like the one we scored at Anfield, Lamela and Eriksen combining to feed Kane, for a month of Sunday's under AVB.

That game against Arsenal this season was up there with the best performances I've watched by a Spurs team, period. The Liverpool game a few days later was also damn good.

But nothing else we've seen from Pochettino's Spurs has come close to that high intensity, aggressive, coherent, high tempo stye.

Until this saturday we haven't scored too many goals like that one at Anfield either. Defensively I think we've been shocking, and even though we've got one of the worst defensive records in the EPL, I don't think it tells half the story, I think we've got away with shitloads more.

We did get mullered a couple of times under AVB last year by teams that were mullering others, and AVB's tactics and selections did on a couple of occasions contribute to that, but generally, for the most part we were defensively much, much better organised collectively under AVB.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Doesn't it happen with all head coaches at our club?

No Spurs fans that I've seen on this forum has ever only written about a past manager for more than 24 hours straight, without caring about any other topic. That's not normal. That's the difference between voicing a pedestrian opinion and actively undermining somebody who is not even at the club.

 

[Mr Pink]

That game against Arsenal this season was up there with the best performances I've watched by a Spurs team, period. The Liverpool game a few days later was also damn good.

But nothing else we've seen from Pochettino's Spurs has come close to that high intensity, aggressive, coherent, high tempo stye.

Until this saturday we haven't scored too many goals like that one at Anfield either. Defensively I think we've been shocking, and even though we've got one of the worst defensive records in the EPL, I don't think it tells half the story, I think we've got away with shitloads more.

We did get mullered a couple of times under AVB last year by teams that were mullering others, and AVB's tactics and selections did on a couple of occasions contribute to that, but generally, for the most part we were defensively much, much better organised collectively under AVB.

I completely agree that we were more organised under AVB, but we also played with less ambition as well. I know you'll take issue with that, but that's my feeling and that certainly contributed to our defensive record - and it served us well away from home. The problem was the next week at home, with bottom half opposition, we were playing the same way moving the ball slowly.

I'm not saying we're doing anything radically better in that sense under Poch, but at least there have been glimpses. And despite how bad we've looked defensively we're still not a million miles away in terms of points.

I think its also fair to concede that AVB was using more experienced players and had one of the most exciting players in the world making the difference for us more often than not. Not to say he doesn't deserve some credit for that, I'm sure he does, He had us set up pretty well and provided a solid platform for Bale to flourish. Pochettino has been playing younger players all over the pitch, and its no surprise there's been some problems - particularly defensively and having two younger players who arn't that versed with the nuances of positioning off the ball, but sometimes use it better when moving it forward. Which is why they're being selected.

A lot has felt wrong recently but there's also a fair bit of mitigation as well IMO and I'm still not losing faith that Pochettino will crack on next season. Why he shied away from what looked like a winning formula around February time I'll never know, but the hope has to be he gets in the targets this summer that he deems suitable for his style.

 

[Khilari]

I don't know what you are trying to prove. The worst performances I've seen from Spurs since pre Redknapp have all been under Sherwood & Pochettino.

Presumably aside from the 6-0 and 4-0 demolitions at the hands of Man City and Liverpool (the latter at White Hart Lane, no less).

 

[Shea]

No Spurs fans that I've seen on this forum has ever only written about a past manager for more than 24 hours straight, without caring about any other topic. That's not normal. That's the difference between voicing a pedestrian opinion and actively undermining somebody who is not even at the club.

No other Spurs fan you know are in the middle of exams for their masters and actively looking for reasons to procrastinate by replying to messages on a Spurs website that come up in notifications (if I were getting notifications on other topics I'd be replying to them more - but people keep quoting me in this thread)

I'm not actively looking to undermine him - I am simply engaging in debate with other fans and expressing my opinions on the topic

You may not think its normal - but that doesn't mean I have an agenda against him, I do not

 

[225]

AVB will do well when he has all the tools he needs at a club who are expected to win in a league that isn't a top teir one.


Do you rememeber the series of hammerings we took under AVB?

Every one of our managers have been guilty of crap performances from the team. Redknapp whilst the England job was available, AVB against Liverpool and City, Sherwood against any team above us, Pochettino has had a few, every game under Christian Gross (just kidding).

I liked him, he got us 73 points.

72 pts

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

No other Spurs fan you know are in the middle of exams for their masters and actively looking for reasons to procrastinate by replying to messages on a Spurs website that come up in notifications (if I were getting notifications on other topics I'd be replying to them more - but people keep quoting me in this thread)

I'm not actively looking to undermine him - I am simply engaging in debate with other fans and expressing my opinions on the topic

You may not think its normal - but that doesn't mean I have an agenda against him, I do not

Yes, yes, yes, I SEE it now. "AVB ruined my masters degree!" "Failing graduate hits out at prior Spurs coach" The student explains: "If only declaring his shortcomings wasn't so darn stimulating",

 

[Shea]

Yes, yes, yes, I SEE it now. "AVB ruined my masters degree!" "Failing graduate hits out at prior Spurs coach" The student explains: "If only declaring his shortcomings wasn't so darn stimulating",

There's no need to be a prick about it

I dunno why you're taking offense to my opinions regarding AVB

I'm not calling shit, I'm not undermining him. I'm expressing my opinions and debating on a messaging board. I simply believe I am putting his achievements in to context rather than discrediting/dismissing them

I've already said I believe as a young coach I believe he has shown potential and continues to do so, I have even said that his time in the EPL could well serve as a valuable learning curve to help his progression as a manager in the long term

I just don't think winning the Russian league is any kind of proof that as of now he's proven himself as someone we fucked up with and made a major mistake parting company with or whatever the notion that this thread was intending to suggest

Obviously you disagree with my opinions, which is fine, but is there really any need for the sarcastic reply you just gave? why are you so offended by my opinions on AVB? just because you disagree with them do not mean I am not entitled to have them and indeed express them on a Spursfan discussion forum

Really, why does it bother you so much that it makes your blood boil?

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

There's no need to be a prick about it

I dunno why you're taking offense to my opinions regarding AVB

I'm not calling shit, I'm not undermining him. I'm expressing my opinions and debating on a messaging board. I simply believe I am putting his achievements in to context rather than discrediting/dismissing them

I've already said I believe as a young coach I believe he has shown potential and continues to do so, I have even said that his time in the EPL could well serve as a valuable learning curve to help his progression as a manager in the long term

I just don't think winning the Russian league is any kind of proof that as of now he's proven himself as someone we fucked up with and made a major mistake parting company with or whatever the notion that this thread was intending to suggest

Obviously you disagree with my opinions, which is fine, but is there really any need for the sarcastic reply you just gave? why are you so offended by my opinions on AVB? just because you disagree with them do not mean I am not entitled to have them and indeed express them on a Spursfan discussion forum

Really, why does it bother you so much that it makes your blood boil?

I'm not boiling at all, I'm super relaxed in the midst of my work load. But you do go to a really, really eye catching extent in this very specific thread. It is a very foreign concept to me that somebody who is enough of a Spurs fan to use this forum, is so extensively participating exclusively in such a narrow thread about a has been topic.

 

[Shea]

I'm not boiling at all, I'm super relaxed in the midst of my work load. But you do go to a really, really eye catching extent in this very specific thread. It is a very foreign concept to me that somebody who is enough of a Spurs fan to use this forum, is so extensively participating exclusively in such a narrow thread about a has been topic.

Didn't you just say that people undermining ex managers makes your blood boil? I swear you just tagged me to tell me that a couple of posts back

@Shea Imagine being a Spurs-supporter, and the one thing that gets your blood really flowing is undermining a past head coach.

Ok "flowing" rather than "boiling" but still I don't get why you're so passionate about what I have to say

I've already told you why I am participating in this thread almost exclusively

I work full time, currently I also study part time. For the last two days I've been off work and studying almost 24 hours per day. It's a stressful time. I find Spurscommunity somewhat therapeutic in between bouts of intense studying. I haven't however really been browsing the forum, but I have continuously found notifications addressed to me from people quoting my remarks in this thread and I then proceed to reply to them

I have opinions on the matter, I discuss/debate them. What is your problem with what I say or do on an internet forum? It's only my opinion, I am not stating anything as fact just debating my opinions in a fashion such fan discussion forums were designed for

Why do you take exception to my posts?

 

[olliec]

He's a nice lad

 

[Xeeleeyid]

Yes, when we are performing good, we are better than last season, but when we are performing bad, we are so so much worse than ever before.

Really? I don't remember regular 5 plus goal defeats this season. What a ridiculous comment

 

[Main Man]

Really? I don't remember regular 5 plus goal defeats this season. What a ridiculous comment

Maybe not, but do you remember every single one of our home performances bar Chelsea, Arsenal and City?

They are the only three games where I can say we were the better team and deserved three points, and I am perhaps being generous there too.

United, Liverpool, Stoke, West Ham, Palace, West Brom and Villa were the better teams against us for the majority of the game - I would argue dominated - but they were certainly the better teams.

Our victories over Swansea, Southampton, Everton, Leicester, Sunderland, Hull and Burnley have all been 'hard work' shall we say, where all the opposing teams will have been disappointed not to come away with at least a point.

We lost at home to Newcastle in a game of two halves, whilst even the victory of QPR should have seen them 2-0 up inside 20 minutes.

We have not once this season - other than the Arsenal game - showed the control or dominance that we did under the majority of teams under AVB at the Lane.

Fan boys/haters can dress it up as much as they want, but that is the reality.

 

[eddiev14]

My opinion hasn't changed of him.

He employs a ponderous, defensive style and it appears that he can only get results if he has Hulk in the team

I was unsurprised to read this yesterday: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/32780855

At Porto and Spurs he was a lucky, lucky boy to have two teams that included Falcao and Bale at the peak of their powers. Bale absolutely carried us in AVB's last season and made him look a much better manager than he is.

I prefer Pochettino by a country mile as I can see that what he is trying to do will produce exciting football for us. He also appears less of an egotist and more relaxed in his own skin, and I remember @JJetset telling us how many people AVB marginalised because of his personality.

So yeah, I'm still happy he's gone!

 

[ostrov]

Zenit fans hate the style of football. To win Russian corrupt league with Gazprom resourses is not something special.
AVB is mediocre coach. Happy he's gone. He left us in a mess post Bale.