Next Manager Watch

[joey55]

Ok, so looking into Ange has led me on a path of discovery, where I've learned that Mrs Mangle was actually British!

 

[gavspur]

I think, at the moment, we should be getting Luis Enrique in. His training sessions are very modern, with a few eyebrow raising innovations in there. He’s forward thinking, it’s all about the team and not individuals, and he seems to be able to communicate well. We’d need some better ball players, Raya, Laporte, Kocku (yeah, go take him from Feyenord!!!) and Maddison, but I think he could work with our squad then. We’d also have to get rid of the cloggers, Hojbjerg, Sanchez etc etc.

 

[spurslenny]

This thread, and the views of this fan base in general are a microcosm of the current state of this club.

Everyone pulling in different directions, no clear thinking, no real strategy of what we should be attempting to achieve in the immediate, short, and long term.

We are having a massive wobble, and the club doesn't have the first clue of its identity, and no self awareness of what we are or our standing in the game. Its the same old problem of thinking we're a big club, but acting like a small one.

I have no answers, but it seems to me that we need a complete reset (forget the 'we must win a trophy' or 'we must get top4').

What we absolutely must do, is start playing attractive, competitive football that the fans will enjoy and want to watch, and that in turn will feed energy into the club. Get that right, and all the shiny things will (or could/should) follow in due course.

Nuno, Conte, and JM were just not built to do that.

If Angela Postcard can do that, so be it.

 

[ntmac82]

Sorry, not comparable to the Premier League.



and European Super Cup? You mean one game?

Sorry, not comparable to the Premier League.



and European Super Cup? You mean one game?

Firstly, it wasn't just the European Super Cup, which in fact is 2 legs.

He also won the Cup Winners Cup.

What Ferguson achieved at Aberdeen far out ways what Ange has achieved.

On the basis you want Ange, why not Mark Robbins or Kieran McKenna?

 

[Tonio]

I like Ange....would be a punt though.

That said, Conte and Mourinho were sure things and look how that turned out.

Fans are funny though, those who are so anti Ange atm are likely to be blowing up in 12 months when he has taken "mid level" prem team to success claiming we have no foresight yada yada yada

Well it’s just as likely he will fail spectacularly. I wonder what the pro Ange brigade will say then? “Oh well at least we gave him a chance” or some such bollocks I’d guess.
What will I say if he comes and is a success? I’d openly admit I was as wrong to write him off and take a shellacking. If however I’m proved right I’d be the biggest of Billy’s Bollocks and be straight on here to say I told you so. Just so you know where I’m at.

 

[RobjDerby]

Ok, so looking into Ange has led me on a path of discovery, where I've learned that Mrs Mangle was actually British!

Wait till he learns about Charlene !

 

[fecka]

My understanding of Nagelsmann is that he is somebody who wants to control every aspect he possibly can. Before I elaborate I want to be clear, when I say micromanage, I don't think it's always a bad thing, it to me is just a way of doing things and if done correctly can have excellent results, if done poorly can be awful. My understanding though is that he likes to micromanage every single element that he can.

On the board side, I think that control would be like what players come and go, what team he is building, other elements and with Spurs I just think, with Daniel you have this rigid person who likes control and we've seen how hiring a rigid person who likes control has gone working with Daniel, they're like magnets, same energy repel eachother. Again and I agree with Trix, I think Conte and Jose both could have been successful at Spurs if they were given the control, same with Nagelsmann, I think if he was given control and it was daniel who was the flexible one, I think he'd do superb. I just don't see it happening and so I think sometimes it's about accepting the reality of the situation and hiring accordingly, we need somebody who is flexible and is adaptable. My preference would be that they start flexible and adaptable and they slowly become rigid over time and wrestle control away but if they don't have that capability to be flexible, it's going to be a disaster.

I think it would start with the players and this is actually the bigger area of concern with me. Conte was a micromanager and my opinion is that this works temporarily but if the players don't understand the why, then they'll basically shut down (like literally motor skills nervous system). If you get people to understand why then you can micromanage them for far longer but I think what our players need is to learn to trust their own judgement and so they need a manager that takes an approach more akin to asking a player a question and letting them find a solution. I always think that if you're going to be controlling then it needs to be a bit like the sport curling, where the person is in control of the puck, they eventually let go, then they brush either side just to manage and then eventually it's left to it's own momentum. Pep's approach apparently is to give the players freedom in the final 3rd to find solution, he controls how they get there, which upon reflection sounds like curling . He focuses on getting the ball there. So for that reason I don't think Nagelsmann is the manager for the present because the players just went through, Jose and Conte and I think they've just had the mental energy drained from them and it needs a manager who teaches them to trust themselves to come before another manager who tries to teach them anything new. Honestly under Slot what I expected was that all the lessons from Jose and Conte would suddenly click where Slot was giving them confidence. So that's on the player side.

I bet you regret asking g

Without any inside knowledge to prove my thesis, I'm of the assumption that lumping Conte and Nagelsmann together makes them both a disservice. While I agree that micromanaging, especially with Levy, won't work I think the larger part of why for example Conte didn't was because of the way he communicates and inevitably falls out with those around him after a while.
One could, for example, argue that Conte's never really had control anywhere he's been and he's still won titles. We can argue Conte's backing and/or lack of thereof at Spurs back and forth, but I'll argue that lack of control in itself wasn't the reason it didn't end well.

My big no-no with any manager is hiring the DoF that they want just to get said manager, as that would make them a pair thus making the longevity of a strategy potentially difficult as the average tenure of a manager is something like two years. What happens if you hire them as a pair and the manager fails after 6 months? Do you fire the DoF too?
That's also where my big question mark around Nagelsmann lies, and if I was to make an assumption one of, if not, the reason for you thinking Nagelsmann wants absolute control?

What I've heard Nagelsmann does well is getting people around on his side and working wonders with relatively small means at both Hoffenheim and Leipzig. By all accounts, he also did very well at Bayern managing the loss and lack of replacement of Lewa and he was simply the victim of Bayern inside politics at the end, a case in point being Salihamidzic's and Kahn's sackings the second the season ended. If anything, I think the noises of him wanting to know how much control and support he'll be getting is simply a defense mechanism as a result of how it ended at Bayern and Levy's reputation.

Also, while being mindful of not trying to make this discussion about Pep I feel that you're oversimplifying his coaching style massively. He's known for drilling his players extremely hard into certain patterns and movements and that perceived freedom his players get is still a part of a highly determined way of playing. The trust is based on them showing him that they can do it the Pep-way. It's a far cry from the Mourinho way of (I know you didn't say that, I just wanted to use it as reference) letting the players find their own solutions in the final third. Pep not only controls how they get there, they are also required to use the ball in the final third in a very certain way as well.

I do agree that we likely need a motivator more than a tinkerer, and I believe our difference of opinion lies in that I might just rate Nagelsmann's soft skills higher than you do?

 

[Metalhead]

Firstly, it wasn't just the European Super Cup, which in fact is 2 legs.

He also won the Cup Winners Cup.

What Ferguson achieved at Aberdeen far out ways what Ange has achieved.

On the basis you want Ange, why not Mark Robbins or Kieran McKenna?

I think that it again comes down to it really not mattering what so and so poster on here wants. People need to stop getting annoyed because so and so wants Ange or Mason or whoever. It won't make any difference in the final equation.

 

[Spurs 1961]

My understanding of Nagelsmann is that he is somebody who wants to control every aspect he possibly can. Before I elaborate I want to be clear, when I say micromanage, I don't think it's always a bad thing, it to me is just a way of doing things and if done correctly can have excellent results, if done poorly can be awful. My understanding though is that he likes to micromanage every single element that he can.

On the board side, I think that control would be like what players come and go, what team he is building, other elements and with Spurs I just think, with Daniel you have this rigid person who likes control and we've seen how hiring a rigid person who likes control has gone working with Daniel, they're like magnets, same energy repel eachother. Again and I agree with Trix, I think Conte and Jose both could have been successful at Spurs if they were given the control, same with Nagelsmann, I think if he was given control and it was daniel who was the flexible one, I think he'd do superb. I just don't see it happening and so I think sometimes it's about accepting the reality of the situation and hiring accordingly, we need somebody who is flexible and is adaptable. My preference would be that they start flexible and adaptable and they slowly become rigid over time and wrestle control away but if they don't have that capability to be flexible, it's going to be a disaster.

I think it would start with the players and this is actually the bigger area of concern with me. Conte was a micromanager and my opinion is that this works temporarily but if the players don't understand the why, then they'll basically shut down (like literally motor skills nervous system). If you get people to understand why then you can micromanage them for far longer but I think what our players need is to learn to trust their own judgement and so they need a manager that takes an approach more akin to asking a player a question and letting them find a solution. I always think that if you're going to be controlling then it needs to be a bit like the sport curling, where the person is in control of the puck, they eventually let go, then they brush either side just to manage and then eventually it's left to it's own momentum. Pep's approach apparently is to give the players freedom in the final 3rd to find solution, he controls how they get there, which upon reflection sounds like curling . He focuses on getting the ball there. So for that reason I don't think Nagelsmann is the manager for the present because the players just went through, Jose and Conte and I think they've just had the mental energy drained from them and it needs a manager who teaches them to trust themselves to come before another manager who tries to teach them anything new. Honestly under Slot what I expected was that all the lessons from Jose and Conte would suddenly click where Slot was giving them confidence. So that's on the player side.

I bet you regret asking

Nice post

My take, and I am like most of us just guessing with no inside information, is that Nagelsmann, Pochettino and some other elite managers including Pep and Klopp do want the final say on team matters including players bought/sold. They do want to be the culture setters at any club, the focal point. I am not so sure if they micromanage as such. I do agree that at the top level that approach will not be sustainable

 

[only1waddle]

Yeah, it was by someone who ended up deleting it in the end because he said "too much". It was a series of pretty comprehensive posts though. Even naming the person on the board(I had to Google them) who was conducting the initial interviews.

I can't remember the name of the poster but they are on here pretty regularly so i'm sure it wasn't BS.

I remember that now, think the board member was that ex Man Utd guy, Hemen Tseayo.

 

[ntmac82]

I think that it again comes down to it really not mattering what so and so poster on here wants. People need to stop getting annoyed because so and so wants Ange or Mason or whoever. It won't make any difference in the final equation.

100% agree that going over and over again is not getting us anywhere. Just need to wait and see. I just like to add my two pence

 

[mil1lion]

I think, at the moment, we should be getting Luis Enrique in. His training sessions are very modern, with a few eyebrow raising innovations in there. He’s forward thinking, it’s all about the team and not individuals, and he seems to be able to communicate well. We’d need some better ball players, Raya, Laporte, Kocku (yeah, go take him from Feyenord!!!) and Maddison, but I think he could work with our squad then. We’d also have to get rid of the cloggers, Hojbjerg, Sanchez etc etc.

Come off it, we have Winks, Lo Celso and Ndombele to return. They will make Tiki Taka work under Enrique. Everyone loves a comeback story.

 

[wadewill]

Just had this pop up, I know its The Sun but

Spurs set to announce Celtic boss Postecoglou as new boss as soon as next week

ANGE POSTECOGLOU could be confirmed as Tottenham’s new manager as early as next week. And Celtic are so resigned to losing the Aussie that they have already started looking around for a replacement…

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[Teegart]

I have a feeling it’s Luis Enrique.

I wouldn’t be shocked if the Ange links are journos assuming the reason we haven’t got anyone in is due to us waiting until after Celtics cup final Saturday. Reckon it could be a case of 2+2=5 for them.

Add that to the Napoli chairman’s quotes about Luis Enrique, I wouldn’t be shocked if it’s just randomly announced out the blue.

 

[Harrier]

Sorry, not comparable to the Premier League.



and European Super Cup? You mean one game?

Aberdeen F.C. - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Just read the ‘Alex Ferguson era’ section if you need further proof of the differences!

Scalps taken by Aberdeen included Bayern and Real Madrid.

 

[haslemereyid]

A Celtic point of view

Ange Sounds Like A Man Preparing For A Celtic Departure. But Not His Own.

Amidst the ridiculous speculation coming from London as manager after manager rejects the call from Spurs, Ange spoke about the summer transfer business at Celtic on Tuesday, and every word he said…

thecelticblog.com

 

[TEESSIDE1]

Last season and the season prior highlight the importance of getting the ‘right manager’.

Brighton - stepped up at level under de Zerbi
Newcastle - almost relegated, now a top three side with a few key signings
Aston Villa - in serious trouble under Gerrard. Qualified for Europe with the same players. Extremely difficult to break down and more importantly they were picking up wins instead of draws

You then get the poor appointments:

Spurs - Stellini = free fall
Leeds - Allardyce = relegated
Chelsea - Lampard = horrendous form for a club with huge resources

 

[Metalhead]

100% agree that going over and over again is not getting us anywhere. Just need to wait and see. I just like to add my two pence

Ha ha fair enough. To be fair, it really does seem like it'll be Ange though.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

I was sceptical about Slot initially, but with further digging I could see the reasoning behind going for him - over performing, winning the league in a traditional two horse race as the outsider, rebuilding a team to a higher level after losing your best players, going toe to toe with teams from other European leagues etc.

Other than an attacking brand of football and being a good orator I see far less to convince me that Postecoglou is the answer.

I’m very open to being convinced as I was with Slot, but so far I’m not.

is what they have achieved domestically that different ? The Dutch league is effectively a 3 horse race. Also given that Slot's team was well beaten by Roma how would they have faired in a tough Champions League group? Of course no one knows but with Celtic its the situation he inherited that is not to dis-similar to the one at Spurs- supporters disenchanted with the board a team that had played poor football - that has turned round completely they have bought into the man and his positivity as much as anything else - I do a bit of work up there and they love him and are desperate not to lose him - I think as a club we need a unifying force after Conte and Mourinho and that is something that he brings

 

[cliff jones]

This thread, and the views of this fan base in general are a microcosm of the current state of this club.

Everyone pulling in different directions, no clear thinking, no real strategy of what we should be attempting to achieve in the immediate, short, and long term.

We are having a massive wobble, and the club doesn't have the first clue of its identity, and no self awareness of what we are or our standing in the game. Its the same old problem of thinking we're a big club, but acting like a small one.

I have no answers, but it seems to me that we need a complete reset (forget the 'we must win a trophy' or 'we must get top4').

What we absolutely must do, is start playing attractive, competitive football that the fans will enjoy and want to watch, and that in turn will feed energy into the club. Get that right, and all the shiny things will (or could/should) follow in due course.

Nuno, Conte, and JM were just not built to do that.

If Angela Postcard can do that, so be it.

not a microcosm, just a reflection of the vacuum created by the lack of leadership, identity, planning, and sensible comms