"Man Utd and Liverpool driving 'Project Big Picture' - football’s biggest shake-up in a generation"

[Seafordian Spurs]

The owners of Manchester United. ???

 

[rez9000]

How about we tell two bunches of American businessmen, who've bought their way into our game, to fuck off? They are literally attempting to buy long term control of English football and place it in the hands of a tiny number of foreign businessmen.

The FA should take all the good ideas (capped away tickets, return to safe standing, abolishing the Charity Shield) and say thanks, then slam the door shut in their faces.

An absolutely brazen attempt at a heist, taking advantage of a global pandemic.

My favourite part is the absolute presumptuousness of this statement:



Yeah I'm sure you do, but here's another suggestion - how about you guys go fuck yourselves, you utterly brazen ****s?

It's breath-taking just how brazen it is!

But it demonstrates just how deeply modern football is entwined with the worst excesses of late-stage capitalism (no, I'm not going political, just mentioning the economic paradigm we exist in today).

The worst part of it is, and I can't say it enough, is just how disconnected we, as fans, are from the structures of football - partly through design by those that operate the levers of power, but also through our own activity, or rather inactivity. When the loudest voice supposedly representing fans is the Football Supporters Association, well-intentioned but essentially ignored by all, it shows just how little we, the most important aspect of football, influence the decision-making in the game. I'm sure we all heard about the anti-ENIC protests recently? Those involved might have been misguided, but at least they did something! The vast majority of us (and I'm one of them) just sit back and let it happen to us.

The lower league clubs desperately need us - as the current situation shows, those lower down the scale are haemorrhaging money without the fans. The bigger clubs? Sure, it's tough for them too, but it's far from endgame territory, and probably never will be. They can trim sails (or in all likelihood, try and find ways to extract more money from their captive audiences as the £15 per game PPV ****nuggetry shows) and continue to rely on TV money as the bulk of their revenue.

The one thing the proposal has right is that the entire structure of football needs changing. However, it proposes change that will exacerbate the problems, not alleviate them.

And what's worse is this idea is now out there and is never going to go away. Like the super-league idea. That idea should have long ago crept arthritically into a corner, curled up and died like the leprous, diseased atrocity that it is. But it's still hanging around, waiting for it's scummy time to roll back round again. And now this cancerous infection of an idea has been thrown into the circle too, maybe beaten back for the now, but ready to heave it's fetid, stinking carcass back in at some point in the future and round and round we'll go until the entire edifice is torn down and rebuilt properly.

Ah, fuck it. By the time anyone thinks to do something it'll already be too late and we'll all long be in our graves by the time enough people come together to exercise their will.

I'll just finish with an apology for the above. It's very purple and it's very bitter, but this news has just reinforced my sense of abject cynicism about the world.

 

[jay2040]

I dont agree in principle, however if we are at the top table then i don't see Levy letting us get fucked over.

Ironic that there is a lot of Anti American rhetric by fans of a club that has American owners!

 

[Bobbins]

I dont agree in principle, however if we are at the top table then i don't see Levy letting us get fucked over.

Ironic that there is a lot of Anti American rhetric by fans of a club that has American owners!

I don't think anyone's worried about the future of Spurs - it's the future of football we're concerned about.

Second part: huh?

 

[Trotter]

FSA's response

“The Football Supporters’ Association notes with grave concern today’s press reports of proposals for a major restructure of the Premier League, with far-reaching consequences for the whole of domestic football.

“Once again it appears that big decisions in football are apparently being stitched up behind our backs by billionaire club owners who continue to treat football as their personal fiefdom. Football is far more than a business to be carved up; it is part of our communities and our heritage, and football fans are its lifeblood. As football’s most important stakeholders, it is crucial that fans are consulted and involved in the game’s decision-making.

“We have welcomed the government’s commitment to a ‘fan-led review of the governance of football’; we would argue that today’s revelations have made that process even more relevant and urgent.

“We will of course study the detail of the new proposals, we remain open-minded to any suggestions for the improvement of the governance and organisation of the game, whatever their source, and we will continue to engage constructively in all discussions around reform. We would however emphasise that in our discussions so far, very few of our members have ever expressed the view that what football really needs is a greater concentration of power in the hands of the big six billionaire-owned clubs.”

 

[Trotter]

And the Government's response

"We are surprised and disappointed that at a time of crisis when we have urged the top tiers of professional football to come together and finalise a deal to help lower league clubs, there appear to be backroom deals being cooked up that would create a closed shop at the very top of the game," a DCMS spokesperson said.

"Sustainability, integrity and fair competition are absolutely paramount and anything that may undermine them is deeply troubling. Fans must be front of all our minds, and this shows why our fan led review of football governance will be so critical."

 

[sparx100]

Don't we have one? but its staggered?

Not this season i don't think but going forward I think you are right.

Hast that been introduced?
I'm not it will for this season due to it being shorter.

Yup sounds like it based on this article.

Premier League scraps winter break

The Premier League has scrapped its winter break for the 2020-21 season because of the congested schedule resulting from the coronavirus pandemic.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

It all sounds nice and sensible up to the "9 teams" and "6 controlling the vote"

Why?

Well let's take a look at the 9.....

Liverpool - American business owners
Man u - american business owners
Chelsea - Abramovic
City - Dubai ownership
Southampton - up for sale
Spurs - primed for sale
Arsenal/Everton - kroenke/usamanov

Which leaves decision making and morality to gold and Sullivan?

Remember they only need a 6 majority, so Southampton, west ham and us don't really matter.

No way in hell this should happen. The big question is why 9 and why those 9, the answer is obvious and it would as others have said be a power grab.

With 20 teams each having a vote you have a level of fair play. With 9 it's just ridiculous.

If they were going to do this they needed to be a little more subtle about it. For example, they could start by changing the pl to 18 and then saying newly promoted sides, teams with less than 2 seasons in the pl and teams who have been relegated within the last 2 seasons do not have a vote. Then a 60% majority vote. It would still be a bullshit power grab but doing it this way would not be that obvious.

Maybe something like the above is the next step for the Americans as a 'compromise'.

But I would be amazed if they managed to implement their plans.

Oh and support from Rick parry, former chief exec of Liverpool and board member of new York cosmos. Fuck right off!

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

We already pay a high premium to watch our footy. I for one have a season ticket, sky bt Amazon. That’s before we spend our hard earned cash in the shops and bars in the stadium.

This proposal will cost more so notwithstanding all the other arguments for and against it’s a big FUCK OFF

 

[mdharris]

Nah. It would take away the soul of English football.

 

[Dov67]

The ability to veto new owners definitely comes from American sports, where its just an old boys club.

The whole thing is a power grab, opportunists taking advantage of a chaotic situation. Remind me how Abramavich made his money again ?

this was the really interesting proposal and it cuts both ways from a THFC perspective. On the one hand we would be able to veto any takeover and prevent another financially doped money laundering operation coming into the PL and making it harder to win something and qualify for the CL. On the other hand, any new potential owner who is a serious business man with the plan who wanted to buy ENIC out for example could be vetoed by the other clubs out of spite and/or self interest.

Imagine Amazon wanting to buy us, and Chelsea, saying sorry we do not approve? You think you hate them now!!

 

[spursfan77]

I’ve been saying for a while I’d like the PL reduced to 18 teams, as I think it will increase the quality and competitiveness. But there’s no way clubs vote to miss out on the cash they’d lose by not having those 4 games.

I’m quite annoyed how the papers have lumped us in with the instigators of this. Top 6 power grab you see on the back pages, when really it’s 2 teams driving this.

Anyway, I doubt it will get off the floor. Convenient time for it to be brought up when there’s no matches though to fill a few pages in the Sunday papers.

 

[Col_M]

And the Government's response

"We are surprised and disappointed that at a time of crisis when we have urged the top tiers of professional football to come together and finalise a deal to help lower league clubs, there appear to be backroom deals being cooked up that would create a closed shop at the very top of the game," a DCMS spokesperson said.

"Sustainability, integrity and fair competition are absolutely paramount and anything that may undermine them is deeply troubling. Fans must be front of all our minds, and this shows why our fan led review of football governance will be so critical."

Well the Govt can stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Lead by example and people might listen to you you hypocritical tosspots!

 

[chaching]

£250 million immediately to the EFL to compensate its clubs for lost matchday revenue, deducted from future television revenue earnings and financed by a loan taken out by the Premier League

Good but seems like a bribe

Special status for the nine longest serving clubs – and the vote of only six of those “long-term shareholders” required to make major changes, including amending rules and regulations, agreeing contracts, removal of the chief executive, and a wide-ranging veto including on club ownership

Bad, why the nine (yes I know it is to get Man city in). What happens when one of them (West Ham) gets relegated do they go to the next longest running clubs or do they still have power in the PL or do they not get relegated? Why would the other 11/9 teams agree to this

Premier League to go to 18 clubs from 20

In theory good as it will reduce fixture congestion could improve performances / less injuries and better prospects for national team. In reality they are not looking to reduce games but have more lucrative games.

£100 million one-off gift to the FA to cover its coronavirus losses, the non-league game, the women’s game, the grassroots

good but seems like a bribe

From the remainder, 25 per cent of all combined Premier League and Football League revenues to go to the EFL clubs

I don't know how this compares to what is currently sent to EFL clubs but the evening out the distribution seems like a good idea should be used in conjunction with a rule that contracts state if relegated the wages should reduce by x% or at a rate of Y per month which ever is lowest. Is a bit of a bribe

Six per cent of Premier League gross revenues to pay for stadium improvements across the top four divisions, calculated at £100 per seat

Good. Again a bit of a bribe. Surely all the extra money could be given without this restructure

New rules for the distribution of Premier League television income, overseas and domestic, including proposals that base one portion on performance over three years in the league

Based on who will be running this this distribution is only going one way which will basically mean due to their world wide fan base Liverpool and Man Utd will be far ahead of everyone else with the rest of the top 6 far ahead of the rest.

The abolition of the League Cup and the Community Shield

In theory no issue with this although maybe have league cup but exclude clubs in Europe and to give it some importance the winner gets into Europa or has a play off match with the lowest ranked qualifier for Europa if they haven't already qualified. Those teams won't agree to that as it places their place in Europe at risk. Also the issue is that it won't reduce fixtures as they just want to replace the fixtures with more lucrative matches.

24 clubs each in the Championship, League One and League Two reducing the professional game overall from 92 clubs to 90

Seams fair enough although not sure what it has to do with the premier league.

A women's professional league independent of the Premier League or the FA

I assume this is so it is less of a cost for the premier league or the FA it doesn't sound like a good thing for the womans leagues.

Two sides automatically relegated from the Premier League every season and the top two Championship teams promoted. The 16th place Premier League club in a play-off tournament with the Championship’s third, fourth and fifth placed teams.

I actually quite like this idea.

Financial fair play regulations in line with Uefa, and full access for Premier League executive to club accounts

Well we have seen how the financial fair play regulations have been used! Its again all about ensuring the big teams don't get competition.

A fan charter including capping of away tickets at £20, away travel subsidised, a focus on a return to safe standing, a minimum away allocation of eight per cent capacity

Good although I think it will be a while until away fans will be allowed back in.

Later Premier League start in August to give greater scope for pre-season friendlies, and requirement for all clubs to compete once every five years in a summer Premier League tournament

The real reason for the reduction in games (as well as an increase in European games) so not to help players but to have more lucrative matches

Huge changes to loan system allowing clubs to have 15 players out on loan domestically at any one time and up to four at a single club in England

Or "doing a Chelsea" allowing big clubs to hoard all the best players isn't good for the players (apart from short term in their bank accounts) or the other teams.

So in summary they should be helping out the EFL clubs but not using a bribe to get what they want. reducing the amount of games by smaller league and no league cup would be good if they were not being replaced with something else. The ultimate end game will be Man Utd and Liverpool earning a huge amount more than the rest of the teams which is madness when you think La Liga is trying to move away from that model and more like the premier league model. The league will pretty much be between those 2 teams each year with the other big six pretty much ensured to remain top six. One of the main reasons why premier league has done so well compared to the other big leagues is the competitive and relative unpredictable nature of the league. Also the thought of Chelsea, Man City and to a slightly lesser extent Man Utd, Arsenal & West ham owners having a say on who else is fit to take over clubs seems like madness.

 

[Dakes]

Greed ends in its own destruction. The whole thing is driven by greed. The EPL has always had a very good thing going. I'm a Capetonian, and most of grew up watching the EPL. It's the most popular league in the world for a reason. La Liga doesn't attract much interest because the winners are a given - Real or Barca. I have no interest in La Liga personally. The owners of United and Liverpool have seen how popular the EPL is, it is making them good money, and now they want more.

I used to enjoy watching Super Rugby. My home town team, the Stormers, always had the best stadium attendance. All the teams played each other, home and away, like the EPL. Obviously certain games like national derbies drew more interest and pulled bigger crowds to games, and the powers that be saw it as an opportunity to make more money by having more local derbies in the tournament. The motive? Greed. Did it work? Check interest in the game and stadium attendance thereafter. I haven't watched a Super Rugby game since. It just became boring. Yes, I enjoyed watching the Stormers play the Bulls more than watching them play against the Reds, but the Stormers-Bulls game was something to look forward to because it only came around once in a while. Why have more local derbies in a Super Rugby tournament when I watch the same teams play in the local tournaments?

The point being, too much of any good thing is bad. We all look forward to watching the NLD, but if we had Spurs playing Woolwich every week, eventually interest would evaporate. Talks of ring fencing the big teams, super leagues, etc. are all being driven to give fans more of what they like in order for certain parties to make more money out of it. But fans like it, and will continue to like it, exactly because it is something to look forward to.

It is important to have games like cold nights in Stoke. Hell, one of my favourite games in recent history was one such night under Poch.

Maybe, to maintain the integrity of the game, we need for United and/or Liverpool to be relegated. The game is bigger than teams that play it.

 

[Bobbins]

Well the Govt can stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Lead by example and people might listen to you you hypocritical tosspots!

That's the response from the DCMS, not the government.

 

[dontcallme]

That's the response from the DCMS, not the government.

Leave my family out of this.

 

[Tucker]

West Ham the latest to shit on the plans. Fair play to them.

West Ham 'against Big Picture plans'

West Ham would be against radical plans by Liverpool and Manchester United to reform the English football pyramid, according to a club insider.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

Why is there this constant rush to try and "fix" football? If it ain't broke, then don't fix it! We have one of the most competitive and commercially successful leagues in the world, and yet we seem to be going out of our way to keep changing it "for the better".

I cringe at the thought of a concentration of power in the premier league, and think it's abhorant that anyone should agree to this. One vote per club should be the bedrock from which any just and meaningful operation of the premier league is based!

 

[Bobbins]

Rick Parry of the EFL is the real sell-out here - I wonder what future position the Americans promised him for him to come out with his slimey support for this attempted heist?