Let's All Laugh At... let's all laugh at United

[Steffen]

How foundation of glass? Their squad is one of the best in the league. The highlighted describes our own position if we continue not to finish teams off

From the midfield up, yes, but the defence? Not even top 4 material. And de Gea can be a match winner in one match, and a disgrace the next.

 

[sausage]

Is it just me, or does Ref Watch today do its very best to try and avoid saying that it wasn't a pen:



INCIDENT: Douglas Luiz clumsily clipped Paul Pogba's heels in the area, handing Bruno Fernandes a penalty which he clinically dispatched into the bottom corner. Aston Villa boss Dean Smith thought Pogba tripped himself up for United's match-winning penalty.

DERMOT SAYS: "I think the referee thinks there is a tangle of legs and Pogba actually catches his foot. What I would say is once it's given, considering where the referee is on the pitch, it's never going to be overturned by VAR. You cannot fault Michael Oliver's positioning."

 

[dontcallme]

I don't think any team in the league has been particularly good this season. It's a weird season and a relatively poor Utd side, or even ourselves, could lift the title.

I think Liverpool will win and they have done well considering their injuries. They're going to need to sort out their away record though.

 

[Emi]

If only they had, say, a 9 year old "heads up" (Suarez v Evra)

Simeon Tegel: Is the term 'negrito' racist? Sadly for the FA, yes and

The fact he said it in the heat of battle against United could undermine his claim

www.independent.co.uk

Seems a bit stupid, really. There are plenty of inappropriate cultural 'things' that various countries have, but you can't use your own country's tolerance to defend something you do in another country.

One of the barriers to racism being eradicated is people's denial of it - people can say racist things (often accidentally) without being racist, but will often dismiss the nature of what is said rather than accepting their own ignorance.

Hi, so I'm Uruguayan and I can give you a clear insight into this incident. Don't know if any of you will read it but I want to give it a try.

To start with, Uruguay is a country that, because of its history, has a population with mixed roots (Europe in Spaniards and Portuguese invaders, Africa in the slaves brought in the 19th Century and, of course, the Natives who lived here before America was found). That said, the vast majority of Uruguayans are "white". Therefore, we, as every other country with more "white" people" than "black" people, are racist. But not necessarily in an explicit way. We are racist in a much worse way (in my opinion): Our society has racism deep inside its structure, those things you don't perceive as racist but eventually are racist. You don't generally see an explicit racist act in the street, something that makes people think we are not racist, but there are other little things that brought together prove to be huge. This introduction aims to show you that, just like every other country in this fucking Western culture we all live in, Uruguay is still racist.

That said, there is an important thing to point out with the word "Negro" as it is used here. The way I see it (and that's my opinion due to my experience, as I'm am by no means a linguist), there are 3 levels:

1) "You are a fucking racist ****":

Doesn't need to be explained.

2) "You are being racist but you don't perceive it and you have no intention to be racist":

The most common one. It is EXTREMELY common to have a friend that is black or is SLIGHTLY black compared to white people, and you call him (let's pretend his name's John Smith) Black John or Black Smith. At this point is important to make clear that you might FUCKING LOVE your friend/brother/workmate/boyfriend/son/cousin and you don't want to discriminate them, but you are doing so as you NEVER EVER call someone White John or White Smith. Right here, even if you don't see skin colour as an indicator of power or worth, you are calling someone due to its colour and in an unfair way, as you never call someone by their colour if they are white. There is a conection between their colour and the way you call them. So, in my opinion you are being RACIST and you are dismissing the nature of what you are saying because of your good intentions.

3) You are not racist:

Here is where URUGUAY and cultural context plays its role. In my country there is this way to use the word "negro" that is completely different to other spanish speaking countries. It has no fucking connection to skin colour and it is a very cute and friendly way to call someone. IN MY OPINION it holds a sort of PARENTAL meaning as it is often used in adults when refering to children they love/care, though it can be used between pals. Ask any Uruguayan you might bump against if they have ever had a Parent/Grandparent/Aunt/Uncle/Friend of the family who has at least once called them negro or negrito (ito make everything smaller or in these cases cuter, more affective). You will never have a NO as an answer, and if you do let me know. It is absolutely spread throughout the country and I promise you is very Uruguayan. We share plenty of similarities with Argentina, but this is not so common there.
The reason why I say this has no connection with skin colour is not because I have seen "white" people being called this way, is because the link between the nickname and the person is not their colour (as in 1 and 2) but the bond between the speaker and the interlocutor. The speaker is aiming for a warm and affective vocative just as honey, sweetheart, or love, even though it is not often used between lovers.
I don't know a single thing about the origin of this modality. Maybe it does have a racist origin but I'm sure it has disappeared as time has gone by.

So, Cavani was making use of 3). You could argue that he was using 2), but you can see in a picture he posted with that friend that his skin colour is the same as Cavani's. That, as a Uruguayan, gives me the clue that it was a very close friend that Cavani was thanking for his support.

That said, I find very disturbing that at this point in history EVERY use of the word Negro or Black is seen as a clear act of discrimination. I totally understand we live in a Racist world, but I consider racist the fact that you can't describe someone as black because you are being racist. Just as saying fat to someone has a harming effect, saying black seems to be having that same effect, specially coming from a white person. I think that society still sees weight and skin colour as important, and fat/black are the "bad" options out of both, so we deem every enunciation as discriminating. That shouldn't be like that. If we can describe someone as tall, short, medium size or describe the colour of their hair, we should be able to describe someone as black without evoking the entire DISASTROUS history of slavery and killing black people have gon through. Again, IF we just describe black people as black but we don't use the same expression for white people, calling them white, we are still in big trouble.

That's my take, and I wish to read your opinions. I so fucking advocate a fair world for everyone and want to change myself if I do something wrong. Let me know if you don't agree with my point of view, cause you could be right. This is a very sensible topic so let's be respectful to each other. I don't know if this is the right forum, but I really need to talk about this so that's why I wanted to express myself. If I'm in the wrong place, just let me know.

P.S: I know it is easy to compare this incident with Suarez/Evra, but please don't make that mistake. Luis Suarez is a fucking **** who would fucking kill you if he could just to score a goal or win a game. That's a huge reason why he is top 3 of the best CF since a long time, but is a totally deplorable behaviour. I still struggle to believe he said something racist to Evra because we do not tend to use racism as a way to make someone get angry and lose their head (that's my opinion, we do insult a lot and say homophobic stuff because that does provoke and effect, but not racism). But the truth is that, coming from Suarez, I WOULDN'T FUCKING SEE IT AS IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[dontcallme]

Hi, so I'm Uruguayan and I can give you a clear insight into this incident. Don't know if any of you will read it but I want to give it a try.

To start with, Uruguay is a country that, because of its history, has a population with mixed roots (Europe in Spaniards and Portuguese invaders, Africa in the slaves brought in the 19th Century and, of course, the Natives who lived here before America was found). That said, the vast majority of Uruguayans are "white". Therefore, we, as every other country with more "white" people" than "black" people, are racist. But not necessarily in an explicit way. We are racist in a much worse way (in my opinion): Our society has racism deep inside its structure, those things you don't perceive as racist but eventually are racist. You don't generally see an explicit racist act in the street, something that makes people think we are not racist, but there are other little things that brought together prove to be huge. This introduction aims to show you that, just like every other country in this fucking Western culture we all live in, Uruguay is still racist.

That said, there is an important thing to point out with the word "Negro" as it is used here. The way I see it (and that's my opinion due to my experience, as I'm am by no means a linguist), there are 3 levels:

1) "You are a fucking racist ****":

Doesn't need to be explained.

2) "You are being racist but you don't perceive it and you have no intention to be racist":

The most common one. It is EXTREMELY common to have a friend that is black or is SLIGHTLY black compared to white people, and you call him (let's pretend his name's John Smith) Black John or Black Smith. At this point is important to make clear that you might FUCKING LOVE your friend/brother/workmate/boyfriend/son/cousin and you don't want to discriminate them, but you are doing so as you NEVER EVER call someone White John or White Smith. Right here, even if you don't see skin colour as an indicator of power or worth, you are calling someone due to its colour and in an unfair way, as you never call someone by their colour if they are white. There is a conection between their colour and the way you call them. So, in my opinion you are being RACIST and you are dismissing the nature of what you are saying because of your good intentions.

3) You are not racist:

Here is where URUGUAY and cultural context plays its role. In my country there is this way to use the word "negro" that is completely different to other spanish speaking countries. It has no fucking connection to skin colour and it is a very cute and friendly way to call someone. IN MY OPINION it holds a sort of PARENTAL meaning as it is often used in adults when refering to children they love/care, though it can be used between pals. Ask any Uruguayan you might bump against if they have ever had a Parent/Grandparent/Aunt/Uncle/Friend of the family who has at least once called them negro or negrito (ito make everything smaller or in these cases cuter, more affective). You will never have a NO as an answer, and if you do let me know. It is absolutely spread throughout the country and I promise you is very Uruguayan. We share plenty of similarities with Argentina, but this is not so common there.
The reason why I say this has no connection with skin colour is not because I have seen "white" people being called this way, is because the link between the nickname and the person is not their colour (as in 1 and 2) but the bond between the speaker and the interlocutor. The speaker is aiming for a warm and affective vocative just as honey, sweetheart, or love, even though it is not often used between lovers.
I don't know a single thing about the origin of this modality. Maybe it does have a racist origin but I'm sure it has disappeared as time has gone by.

So, Cavani was making use of 3). You could argue that he was using 2), but you can see in a picture he posted with that friend that his skin colour is the same as Cavani's. That, as a Uruguayan, gives me the clue that it was a very close friend that Cavani was thanking for his support.

That said, I find very disturbing that at this point in history EVERY use of the word Negro or Black is seen as a clear act of discrimination. I totally understand we live in a Racist world, but I consider racist the fact that you can't describe someone as black because you are being racist. Just as saying fat to someone has a harming effect, saying black seems to be having that same effect, specially coming from a white person. I think that society still sees weight and skin colour as important, and fat/black are the "bad" options out of both, so we deem every enunciation as discriminating. That shouldn't be like that. If we can describe someone as tall, short, medium size or describe the colour of their hair, we should be able to describe someone as black without evoking the entire DISASTROUS history of slavery and killing black people have gon through. Again, IF we just describe black people as black but we don't use the same expression for white people, calling them white, we are still in big trouble.

That's my take, and I wish to read your opinions. I so fucking advocate a fair world for everyone and want to change myself if I do something wrong. Let me know if you don't agree with my point of view, cause you could be right. This is a very sensible topic so let's be respectful to each other. I don't know if this is the right forum, but I really need to talk about this so that's why I wanted to express myself. If I'm in the wrong place, just let me know.

P.S: I know it is easy to compare this incident with Suarez/Evra, but please don't make that mistake. Luis Suarez is a fucking **** who would fucking kill you if he could just to score a goal or win a game. That's a huge reason why he is top 3 of the best CF since a long time, but is a totally deplorable behaviour. I still struggle to believe he said something racist to Evra because we do not tend to use racism as a way to make someone get angry and lose their head (that's my opinion, we do insult a lot and say homophobic stuff because that does provokes and effect, but not racism). But the truth is that, coming from Suarez, I WOULDN'T FUCKING SEE IT AS IMPOSSIBLE.

Thanks for the post.

I don't think what Cavani said was done in a racist way. I believe he meant it in a friendly way and I have huge respect for him or his club's stance to accept the punishment instead of making it a bigger deal.

We do have a conflict when using speech. There are micro-aggressions and things said that many see as wrong and shouldn't be said while others see it in a different way and believe the intent of offence was not there. I have sympathy for both sides depending on the context.

I think this is partly connected to the internet and the way we communicate. Through global communications in the written word we have everyday interactions recorded online. A simple, friendly conversation between a footballer and a fan has resulted in a player getting a 3 game ban. In his country and the way he naturally uses language this was not something he ever thought to be wrong, let alone punishable.

The internet has helped to polarise society even more.

 

[sausage]

Hi, so I'm Uruguayan and I can give you a clear insight into this incident. Don't know if any of you will read it but I want to give it a try.

To start with, Uruguay is a country that, because of its history, has a population with mixed roots (Europe in Spaniards and Portuguese invaders, Africa in the slaves brought in the 19th Century and, of course, the Natives who lived here before America was found). That said, the vast majority of Uruguayans are "white". Therefore, we, as every other country with more "white" people" than "black" people, are racist. But not necessarily in an explicit way. We are racist in a much worse way (in my opinion): Our society has racism deep inside its structure, those things you don't perceive as racist but eventually are racist. You don't generally see an explicit racist act in the street, something that makes people think we are not racist, but there are other little things that brought together prove to be huge. This introduction aims to show you that, just like every other country in this fucking Western culture we all live in, Uruguay is still racist.

That said, there is an important thing to point out with the word "Negro" as it is used here. The way I see it (and that's my opinion due to my experience, as I'm am by no means a linguist), there are 3 levels:

1) "You are a fucking racist ****":

Doesn't need to be explained.

2) "You are being racist but you don't perceive it and you have no intention to be racist":

The most common one. It is EXTREMELY common to have a friend that is black or is SLIGHTLY black compared to white people, and you call him (let's pretend his name's John Smith) Black John or Black Smith. At this point is important to make clear that you might FUCKING LOVE your friend/brother/workmate/boyfriend/son/cousin and you don't want to discriminate them, but you are doing so as you NEVER EVER call someone White John or White Smith. Right here, even if you don't see skin colour as an indicator of power or worth, you are calling someone due to its colour and in an unfair way, as you never call someone by their colour if they are white. There is a conection between their colour and the way you call them. So, in my opinion you are being RACIST and you are dismissing the nature of what you are saying because of your good intentions.

3) You are not racist:

Here is where URUGUAY and cultural context plays its role. In my country there is this way to use the word "negro" that is completely different to other spanish speaking countries. It has no fucking connection to skin colour and it is a very cute and friendly way to call someone. IN MY OPINION it holds a sort of PARENTAL meaning as it is often used in adults when refering to children they love/care, though it can be used between pals. Ask any Uruguayan you might bump against if they have ever had a Parent/Grandparent/Aunt/Uncle/Friend of the family who has at least once called them negro or negrito (ito make everything smaller or in these cases cuter, more affective). You will never have a NO as an answer, and if you do let me know. It is absolutely spread throughout the country and I promise you is very Uruguayan. We share plenty of similarities with Argentina, but this is not so common there.
The reason why I say this has no connection with skin colour is not because I have seen "white" people being called this way, is because the link between the nickname and the person is not their colour (as in 1 and 2) but the bond between the speaker and the interlocutor. The speaker is aiming for a warm and affective vocative just as honey, sweetheart, or love, even though it is not often used between lovers.
I don't know a single thing about the origin of this modality. Maybe it does have a racist origin but I'm sure it has disappeared as time has gone by.

So, Cavani was making use of 3). You could argue that he was using 2), but you can see in a picture he posted with that friend that his skin colour is the same as Cavani's. That, as a Uruguayan, gives me the clue that it was a very close friend that Cavani was thanking for his support.

That said, I find very disturbing that at this point in history EVERY use of the word Negro or Black is seen as a clear act of discrimination. I totally understand we live in a Racist world, but I consider racist the fact that you can't describe someone as black because you are being racist. Just as saying fat to someone has a harming effect, saying black seems to be having that same effect, specially coming from a white person. I think that society still sees weight and skin colour as important, and fat/black are the "bad" options out of both, so we deem every enunciation as discriminating. That shouldn't be like that. If we can describe someone as tall, short, medium size or describe the colour of their hair, we should be able to describe someone as black without evoking the entire DISASTROUS history of slavery and killing black people have gon through. Again, IF we just describe black people as black but we don't use the same expression for white people, calling them white, we are still in big trouble.

That's my take, and I wish to read your opinions. I so fucking advocate a fair world for everyone and want to change myself if I do something wrong. Let me know if you don't agree with my point of view, cause you could be right. This is a very sensible topic so let's be respectful to each other. I don't know if this is the right forum, but I really need to talk about this so that's why I wanted to express myself. If I'm in the wrong place, just let me know.

P.S: I know it is easy to compare this incident with Suarez/Evra, but please don't make that mistake. Luis Suarez is a fucking **** who would fucking kill you if he could just to score a goal or win a game. That's a huge reason why he is top 3 of the best CF since a long time, but is a totally deplorable behaviour. I still struggle to believe he said something racist to Evra because we do not tend to use racism as a way to make someone get angry and lose their head (that's my opinion, we do insult a lot and say homophobic stuff because that does provoke and effect, but not racism). But the truth is that, coming from Suarez, I WOULDN'T FUCKING SEE IT AS IMPOSSIBLE.

I've rambled a bit of a response in https://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/in...-any-experiences.112519/page-197#post-7135794 to avoid the thread going off topic

 

[ikky]

 

[tototoner]

 

[Wig]

Not much to laugh about United at the moment. As much as we might think they're a bit shit they're still winning game after game. Very annoying, especially when you see the chances Fulham had and their keeper fumbling the ball at Cavani's feet, compared to the chances we had to beat Fulham and the same keeper making unbelievable saves.

 

[sausage]

View attachment 81201

Imagine not wanting Dele, but wanting the knock off version

 

['O Zio]

View attachment 81201

Better not be any truth in that. Can't stand the guy and I've never understood what anybody sees in him player wise.

Would be almost as bad as when we inexplicably decided to babysit Frazier fucking Campbell for them as part of the berbatov deal

 

[TheTanguy]

Post match vs Sheffield United

Man Utd 0:1 Sheffield United - Bryan (23') Man Utd 1:1 Sheffield United - Maguire (64') Man Utd 1:2 Sheffield United - Burke (74')

www.redcafe.net

 

[michaelden]

Post match vs Sheffield United

Man Utd 0:1 Sheffield United - Bryan (23') Man Utd 1:1 Sheffield United - Maguire (64') Man Utd 1:2 Sheffield United - Burke (74')

www.redcafe.net

They like the post , "reality check". I saw it loads.

 

[TheTanguy]

They like the post , "reality check". I saw it loads.

Absolutely, just like something along the lines of "the title was always a pipe dream anyway"

 

[ikky]

 

[rossdapep]

As if United were gunna win the title with Ole as coach, Maguire as their general and Martial leading the line.

Their strength is their midfield and being able to create and score from this position. Pogba and Bruno are deadly and have the quality to really effect a game. But they do have games where they are pretty invisible.

You then look at their other attackers and there are too many who blow hot and cold. Rashford and Greenwood are excellent but they go through slumps, like Defoe used too.

Martial is starting to become a problem for them. Insists on being a Cf, and Ole obliges, yet he can't lead the line. He has no hold up play, his link up play is average and hes much better coming in off the side.

Then there's their defence. Maguire flaps when theres a bit of panic, Lindelof is poor in the air and Bailly can't stay fit.

They will be up there but they don't have that stable consistency across the team.

The amount of times they've gone behind in games shows you that they lack an element of control and quite often need to change things to win the game.

In contrast look at City. Very solid defence now, that is calm and composed. De Bruyne and Gundogan who are very consistent amd their attack is clicking.

I wouldn't be surprised if Arsenal beat them. I said United would have a wobble and this could be it.

 

[PLTuck]

What a mental season. You just can't predict any results.

 

[ardiles]

 

[wirE]

From the midfield up, yes, but the defence? Not even top 4 material. And de Gea can be a match winner in one match, and a disgrace the next.

Sounds like you're describing our team

 

[Steffen]

Sounds like you're describing our team

I don't agree. We have problems in defence, but so do most of the top teams, bar maybe City. I wouldn't want Lindelöf, Maguire, Shaw or Wan Bissaka near our team.
And Lloris is top 3 keeper in our league. Yes, he makes the occasional howler, but he more than makes it up with several magnificent saves.