doctor stefan Freud
the tired tread of sad biology
- Sep 2, 2013
- 15,170
- 72,171
Stupid prohibition- when’s the next ITK thread going to open?
Jack Grealish
- Thread starter Hoddle&Waddle
- Start date
Japhet
Well-Known Member
- Aug 30, 2010
- 19,495
- 58,465
Before we managed to break into the 'top 4' in the pre City days, it was always Villa who were seen as one of the most likely to do it. What an appalling mess they are in now. Whatever people think of Levy, he's done a fabulous job building us to where we are today.
Joshua
Well-Known Member
- Jan 31, 2015
- 2,268
- 13,245
It was Martin O'Neill leaving for me. He'd got them to that consistent top 6 level but wasn't backed to try and crack the top 4 so walked. All went to sh*t after that. Shame as it is a huge club historically.
Lilbaz
Just call me Baz
- Apr 1, 2005
- 41,363
- 74,893
Wasn't backed? Are you joking?
MoN was also the problem he encouraged the board to grossly over spend both on transfers and salaries and when he left (family reasons I believe) it all fell apart.
Trix
Well-Known Member
- Jul 29, 2004
- 21,154
- 352,911
What you mean is he wanted to spend money Villa didn't have. Lerner was piling his own money in on players and wages and wasn't seeing the return on the pitch MON had promised. MON was a large part of the reason they are in this mess but not just because he walked out
jimmy the boss
Member
- Sep 1, 2013
- 28
- 64
What a load of cobblers, O'Neill left Villa in 2010, since then Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood and Garde ( correct me if i have missed anyone else) have all had a go and wasted money. To say a manager who left 8 years ago is to blame for a large part of their current predicament is absolute nonsense.
The two idiot owners they have had in that time bare most responsibility, not a manager who left 8 years ago.
The two idiot owners they have had in that time bare most responsibility, not a manager who left 8 years ago.
ardiles&villa
Well-Known Member
- Jul 14, 2013
- 2,059
- 5,797
If he joins us can we all chip in for him to get his hair cut?
rabbikeane
Well-Known Member
- Mar 29, 2005
- 7,432
- 14,157
You're just not informed enough about their situation. They've been in saving mode since O'Neill left, because he had sent them £100m into debt and left them at a massive wage level. Owner said they had to cut back, O'Neill left and they've struggled ever since. They gambled like Leeds and Chelsea before them, and have tried to land on their feet ever since.
jimmy the boss
Member
- Sep 1, 2013
- 28
- 64
Who signed the cheques?
O'Neill is a manager, they always want more/ better players. It's up to the owner to say we can't do this we can't afford it.
Lerner with full access to the financial situation bares more responsibility than O'Neill.
You don't have to be well informed enough about their situation to know spending money you don't have is only going to go one way. Unless of course you were well informed that O'Neill held a gun to Lerner's head and forced him to spend money.
Lilbaz
Just call me Baz
- Apr 1, 2005
- 41,363
- 74,893
Very true. Maybe fans should remember that when they say back the manager. It's complicated.
rabbikeane
Well-Known Member
- Mar 29, 2005
- 7,432
- 14,157
Owner must certainly take his share of the blame, the responsibility is always with owners. Managers can just leave their job and move on. But it's the glorification of O'Neill's stay there that annoy me, as if he did a splendid job building a team when it in fact was down to spending a lot of money that the club didn't have. Their position in the table aluded to them being in a good situation, their financial records did not. Villa would not have been in a better situation if O'Neill had stayed, as he refused to cut back on spending and sell players, he would rather leave. He was not the man to bring them out of their situation, the mess they hired later doesn't make it more so.
O'Neill didn't put a physical gun to Lerner's head, but like Redknapp at Portsmouth he did force their hand and said spend or I'm out of here. He's an old school manager that demand full control, like Ferguson etc. This in my opinion should make him more accountable than a head coach hired to just lead the first team. It's a position that should make him have the long term future of the club more in his mind than someone hired to just produce results for the season. Bad owners, bad managers, mediocre players, deluded fan base without self insight who kept demanding more. Owners have been weak and lacked competence to lead the club, someone like Levy would never had ran them into their troubles, and like he did with Redknapp he'd kept O'Neill on a leash, not given him the freedom to sign whatever he wanted. These kind of managers are dangerous to their clubs if allowed full control.
O'Neill didn't put a physical gun to Lerner's head, but like Redknapp at Portsmouth he did force their hand and said spend or I'm out of here. He's an old school manager that demand full control, like Ferguson etc. This in my opinion should make him more accountable than a head coach hired to just lead the first team. It's a position that should make him have the long term future of the club more in his mind than someone hired to just produce results for the season. Bad owners, bad managers, mediocre players, deluded fan base without self insight who kept demanding more. Owners have been weak and lacked competence to lead the club, someone like Levy would never had ran them into their troubles, and like he did with Redknapp he'd kept O'Neill on a leash, not given him the freedom to sign whatever he wanted. These kind of managers are dangerous to their clubs if allowed full control.
Dirtysanchez6
Well-Known Member
- May 15, 2018
- 1,455
- 5,638
July this week coming ... then you realise the window closes in just over a month with it closing early surely this will be done soon ?? ??
Lilbaz
Just call me Baz
- Apr 1, 2005
- 41,363
- 74,893
At the end of the day it is a gamble. If you have unlimited funds like chelsea or city it's easy to win. If you don't it's easy to lose and when you lose it can be catastophic. Good owners will try and limit the risk. Invest in youth, training facilities and stadium. Buy young players that you can sell for a profit or if they don't turn good sell for almost what you paid.
jimmy the boss
Member
- Sep 1, 2013
- 28
- 64
Let me make one thing clear, i don't particularly like O'Neill ( think he is very overrated), i just personally believe when clubs spend way more than they can afford the bulk of the responsibility must lie with the owner/ chairman.
Either way, it's Villa's problem not ours and if we can exploit their current predicament to sign Grealish all the better.
Either way, it's Villa's problem not ours and if we can exploit their current predicament to sign Grealish all the better.
Trix
Well-Known Member
- Jul 29, 2004
- 21,154
- 352,911
Absolutely, if it wasn't for the fact levy is the man he is Redknapp would have seen us down exactly the same path. The owner might have signed the cheques but in Villa's case a foreign owner who knew very little about the job he was doing put too much trust into what MON was telling him would bring success. MON might have spouted personal reasons for why he left but I don't believe that for one second. He did what all "proper football men" do and jumped from the sinking ship he had filled with holes, for self preservation.
Their financial woes started with MON and they have struggled ever since. They were only just treading water before they got relegated, and things have spiralled since.
