is it time to go 4-4-2?

[Blake Griffin]

I would prefer Adebayor to Defoe, better player at connecting midfield and attack

arghhhhhhhhh, wouldn't we all. i'd prefer to have messi in my team too but that ain't happening either. can you give me your solution with defoe in the team? if i give you the colors red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo and black and ask you to do your best with those to make the closest you can to a rainbow, i don't want the answer "i'd just swap black for violet". i'm discussing within the parameters given! defoe is a starter, now work your team around him and you say you'd rather sigurdsson or dempsey than ade?

 

[Blake Griffin]

Perhaps a bad example as even at 2-0 up we were getting battered. They had so much momentum that we would've lost whatever we did. The way to not lose that game would've been to recognise that we were lucky to be 2-0 up and bring on Sandro for Saha as soon as we scored the penalty.

sorry but this is such nonsense, so the game was lost at half time, the damage was irreparable and we might as well have gone home as there was no way to stop arsenal now that they had momentum?

 

[Dan Ashcroft]

yes but defoe is in the team, he is playing, avb likes him, my suggestion is with this in mind. there's no point posting your little formations with defoe out of it.

Defoe, like Friedel, is in the team because AVB is picking the team on principle (i.e. man in possession), rather than pragmatism. He surely can't think Defoe is a better option than Ade, it's just about the message it sends to the rest of the squad (i.e. fight to earn your shirt).

Although it's a bit annoying, it's also admirable, and I think we'll benefit from it in the longer term.

 

[tototoner]

sorry but this is such nonsense, so the game was lost at half time, the damage was irreparable and we might as well have gone home as there was no way to stop arsenal now that they had momentum?

seriously mate I wouldn't start Defoe

sorry meant to reply to your other post

 

[chinaman]

Defoe, like Friedel, is in the team because AVB is picking the team on principle (i.e. man in possession), rather than pragmatism. He surely can't think Defoe is a better option than Ade, it's just about the message it sends to the rest of the squad (i.e. fight to earn your shirt).
Although it's a bit annoying, it's also admirable, and I think we'll benefit from it in the longer term.

Agree with your view although I hope that he is pragmatic enough to use a 4 4 2 formation according to the needs and the resources available.

 

[formlesswater]

Defoe, like Friedel, is in the team because AVB is picking the team on principle (i.e. man in possession), rather than pragmatism. He surely can't think Defoe is a better option than Ade, it's just about the message it sends to the rest of the squad (i.e. fight to earn your shirt).

I think you are wrong here. I believe AVB sees Defoe as the superior player in his system. Yes, Adebayor improves the build up play, and even though he is a worse finisher than Defoe, we probably would score more goals with Ade than Defoe. Despite this, football is 50% about defending, and Defoe excels at the high pressure defending. He has great stamina and pace, and is always closing down the ball. Adebayor, on the other hand, is slow and lazy when the other team has possession, which disrupts AVB's tactical philosophy.

 

[mrlilywhite]

For me the worry is that Avb see`s how ineffectual Dempsey and Stig have been and does not see what is stopping them being the players he expects them to be and does not address the issue. It is clear that no matter how many goals Defoe gets, we will miss out on the bigger picture! Defoe is the proverbial poacher, On his day he is one of the most lethal finishers in the world but how often does he have these days? Never a player to have the ball played to him in the air, To get the best out of him you have to have players that can deliver to feet, either to run onto or with his back to goal, As already stated, we don't have a Luka type player who can deliver that killer pass or a Vdv that can offer us a different dimension in play.

I think and hope Avb see`s the bigger picture because no matter how good Defoe is at closing down space or how much he suits avb`s philosophy he won`t be able to sustain this form over the season and I say form but that's not to suggest he is in the form of his life. He has had a great start to the season but the team should come first and that is not Defoe`s main objective. I think in some circumstances during a game there is a viable option to switch between formations and with the options we have you could argue that we could switch to a 4-4-1-1 or a 4-4-2 but neither of those give us the attacking flexibility that the 4-2-3-1 offers us if used with the right players.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Defoe, like Friedel, is in the team because AVB is picking the team on principle (i.e. man in possession), rather than pragmatism. He surely can't think Defoe is a better option than Ade, it's just about the message it sends to the rest of the squad (i.e. fight to earn your shirt).

Although it's a bit annoying, it's also admirable, and I think we'll benefit from it in the longer term.

Admirable? How about exasperating?

I think you are wrong here. I believe AVB sees Defoe as the superior player in his system. Yes, Adebayor improves the build up play, and even though he is a worse finisher than Defoe, we probably would score more goals with Ade than Defoe. Despite this, football is 50% about defending, and Defoe excels at the high pressure defending. He has great stamina and pace, and is always closing down the ball. Adebayor, on the other hand, is slow and lazy when the other team has possession, which disrupts AVB's tactical philosophy.

Are you having a laugh?

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Good article here by Ewan Roberts.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2865/comment/2012/10/21/3465444/-?

Tottenham’s clash with Chelsea was filled with sub-plots and storylines, not least Andre Villas-Boas’ grudge match with his former employers and mutinous players. Far from the gratifying reunion he would have imagined, Villas-Boas’ side were trounced by the very brand of football he had been tasked by Roman Abramovich to bring to Stamford Bridge, and which was so evidently lacking in Spurs’ performance.

The Lilywhites are in a period of patient transition, but now find themselves at a crossroads. The Jekyll and Hyde of the Premier League, Spurs are an exhilarating, fluid, counter-punching side on the road, but have been laborious and rudderless, clueless even, when attempting to be more methodical at home. As such, it may be time for Villas-Boas to suspend his delusion of creating a passing powerhouse and adapt to make the most of Spurs' fast transition strengths.

The Portuguese manager has seen his side counter-attack with a swagger and verve on their travels, but they appear less explosive and electric on their own turf. And that was true once more against Chelsea, barring a brilliant start to the second half.

Villas-Boas’ Spurs are unpredictable and inconsistent, fluctuating wildly between styles at opposite ends of the spectrum, wrestling with a split personality disorder where Spurs’ dual philosophies are increasingly becoming a duel of philosophies.

White Hart Lane, once a fortress (Spurs lost just once at home in 2010-11), has become a less reliable hunting ground this season with the Lilywhites averaging more points on their travels (2 points per game) than at home (1.8).

Without a passing metronome of Luka Modric’s class and ilk, Spurs have struggled to break down deep defences or control matches. With his players ill-suited to a passing game and unable to replicate the Barcelona-lite model he employed at Porto, Villas-Boas needs to rethink his ideology at home to bridge the gap in results and performances that have come on Spurs’ travels playing a more reactive style.

The different faces of Jermain Defoe have come to embody Spurs’ clash of identities. Like the side as a whole, Defoe has had a season of blacks and whites, good and bad (and ugly), shifting from brilliant to inept and back again on a game-by-game basis.

The forward had a brilliant second half against Chelsea, working hard, tapping-in the 200th goal of his club career and looking a dynamic threat. But in the first half he was frustrated and frustrating, receiving little service, operating in isolation and ignoring better placed team-mates in favour of speculative long shots.

But he’s been prolific this season; an unexpected star under Villas-Boas, despite reports suggesting the Portuguese was happy to offload the England striker, and remoulding the perception of the modern No.9. Defoe has scored five goals in eight league games for Spurs, and is just one goal behind the league’s leading scorers (Robin van Persie, Michu and Demba Ba).

An area of his game that has improved immeasurably under the Portuguese manager is his movement off the ball in the final third. Once static, he now manipulates space for his team-mates, most notably for all three of Spurs’ goals at Old Trafford. Without the ball he’s become more active, harder to mark, elusive.

But Defoe’s reawakening under AVB has been most apparent when Spurs have played away from home and set up to counter. The diminutive forward has often craved the shelter and familiarity of White Hart Lane in the past; last season, in all competitions, he scored 66.6% more goals at home than away.

This year, however, Defoe has scored more goals away from home than at White Hart Lane. On the road he faces higher lines, feeding off a more spring-loaded attack. Defoe needs two things to prosper: space and supply. But without such a climate he can become a burden.

Defoe’s first half against Chelsea was systematic of those shortcomings and Tottenham’s problems at home. Without a Modric-type passer (or Villas-Boas’ priority target Joao Moutinho), Spurs are bereft of a player able to dictate rhythm and tempo, they are less creative and measured in attack, huffing and puffing to little avail against often conservative and deep defences.

Spurs’ inability to unlock compact, organised defences was compounded by the absence of Gareth Bale and Mousa Dembele against Chelsea. Without a creator, without controlled possession, a pure poacher such as Defoe, who offers little ingenuity, vision or link-play, becomes a passenger, a luxury.

How Tottenham could have used Emmanuel Adebayor in the first half, a much busier player than Defoe. While the latter made just 14 successful passes against Chelsea (a figure in line with his 11.6 average last year), Adebayor averaged 34.3 passer per match last season, attempting 1131 passes compared to Defoe’s 291.

Defoe has fewer league assists (10) since he re-joined Tottenham from Portsmouth than Adebayor made last season alone (11). A more complete forward, the selfless Togolese striker provides a constant out-ball, can unlock defences and brings greater ball retention (particularly in the final third).

It could be argued that summer signings Clint Dempsey and Gylfi Sigurdsson were most responsible for Defoe’s lack of supply. The pair, who admittedly thrive off more creative forwards than Defoe (like Adebayor, for example), have disappointed in the early stages of their Spurs’ careers. The Togolese is both a better foil for Defoe, and solves Spurs' most glaring deficiencies.

So perhaps then it is time for Villas-Boas to consider the once unthinkable and revert to the old-fashioned, supposedly out-dated 4-4-2 at home – a beastly, repressed Hyde-like formation compared to his Jekyll-of-a-passing game he stores atop a plinth – and replace Dempsey and Sigurdsson with Adebayor in a more withdrawn role, doing the things Defoe can’t, retaining possession and supplying his in-form pocket-sized strike partner.

 

[RJ1882]

first of all let me state this isn't an overreaction to yesterday as we gave it a decent go(in spells) considering the amount of important players we were missing.

but, think it is clear at the moment that defoe won't be getting dropped anytime soon and based purely on his own performances(forgetting the affect him playing has on the rest of the side) he doesn't deserve to be. siggy and demps are struggling to get into games and we have our best striker sitting on the bench, so why not just go -

keeper​

walker caulker vertonghen ekotto​

lennon sandro dembele bale​

defoe adebayor​

​

yes it's no longer fashionable but the players know how to play it and it gets the best out of everyone, siggy/demps are getting lost in games and the current 4231 isn't helping that one bit. defoe has always played best with a genuine strike partner and ade has to be playing so why not just go back to basics until we have the players to play avb's preferred system accordingly? ofcourse there will be games where we'll need to thicken it up in midfield but for most games i think the above team gets the best out of the players. we're not a particularly great possession team anymore so lets stop pretending otherwise and build the side around the speed and power we know we do have.​

I would suggest, without having read another post after this one, that the reason Dempsey and Sigurdsson havent got into games as much as they should is because they are playing off Defoe, and not Adebayor. Defoe is all about getting the ball and going for goal. He offers nothing as a foil or partner for our attacking midfielders. He has scored 5 goals in 11 games, in 4 out of 11 games, which is respectable, but average. If Adebayor had the same striker average, he'd also have contributed to a much higher goals return for both Dempsey and Sigurdsson and probably Bale too at this point.

442 is an option but we are far more suited to 4231 or 433 if and when AVB puts his best team out.

 

[idontgetit]

We haven't even tried our best team in the best formation yet. Lets get a couple of games with Siggy in behind Adebayor. After that if it doesn't work we can go 442. Anyone know when Kaboul and Benny are back?