Harry Winks - Leicester City

[Snarfalicious]

Recently I’ve mentioned I could see him being sold, but I’m starting to think Mourinho actually really likes him. He does seem like a really coachable player and I think Mourinho will absolutely get the most out of him as a result. Reminds me a lot of Jordan Henderson who pretty much was the definition of average for years and then Klopp really tapped into his strengths. He’s now one of the best leaders in football, in my mind. Could definitely see Winks becoming that type of player for us, given the right setup around him.

 

[Timberwolf]

To quote a certain poster formerly of this parish, Winks is a bit of a curate's egg.

If you play him as the deeper of a CM 2 he lacks the physicality or natural defensive awareness to excel.

But then if you play him as the more attacking member of a CM2 his passing is too pedestrian to really threaten or open up teams and he essentially never scores or assists.

Does that make him a bad player? Not at all. He's the best player in the entire squad at taking the ball under pressure and picking a simple, intelligent pass. You need players like that in a squad and we could've really done with someone like Winks in the early Poch years.

He's also not terrible in either of the CM2 roles I mentioned. He always runs around a lot, tries his best to cover the passing lanes, puts in the odd tackle and, of course, allows us to maintain possession.

Whichever way you look at it he's a really useful player to have in the squad and I think it's easy to forget how important the simple, boring things he does are. If we had Dier in his position these last few games we would've looked a completely different side.

Put him in a CM3 and/or play him in the right games and he'll be a true asset. Expect him to be a dynamic box to box CM or a destroyer and you'll be disappointed.

 

[spids]

To quote a certain poster formerly of this parish, Winks is a bit of a curate's egg.

If you play him as the deeper of a CM 2 he lacks the physicality or natural defensive awareness to excel.

But then if you play him as the more attacking member of a CM2 his passing is too pedestrian to really threaten or open up teams and he essentially never scores or assists.

Does that make him a bad player? Not at all. He's the best player in the entire squad at taking the ball under pressure and picking a simple, intelligent pass. You need players like that in a squad and we could've really done with someone like Winks in the early Poch years.

He's also not terrible in either of the CM2 roles I mentioned. He always runs around a lot, tries his best to cover the passing lanes, puts in the odd tackle and, of course, allows us to maintain possession.

Whichever way you look at it he's a really useful player to have in the squad and I think it's easy to forget how important the simple, boring things he does are. If we had Dier in his position these last few games we would've looked a completely different side.

Put him in a CM3 and/or play him in the right games and he'll be a true asset. Expect him to be a dynamic box to box CM or a destroyer and you'll be disappointed.

I would say that Lo Celso is the best in our squad at that.

My main complaint with Winks, and maybe this is him following instruction rather than a limitation, but he too often takes the safe option and passes to a FB or a CB, and slowly, when he could have moved the ball either more quickly or into the feet of one of our forward players. When he is paired with Sissoko this means we rarely pass the ball with any intent though midfield, and rely 100% on Aurier or Davies providing any attacking creativity (which explains the performances against Bournemouth, Sheffield United and Everton).

Winks statistics shows he does not contribute offensively - he has only created 3 big chances (2 assists) in 90 games, 2 goals in 90 games. He also offers little defensively with less than 1 tackle and 1 interception per game in that same period. He also offers no aerial threat at either end.

His main asset is that in the middle third he has a nice burst of acceleration through tight gaps with the ball (which he only uses when forced to get out of a tight situation as a last resort) and is capable of incisive passing when we are chasing a game. He needs to get more on the front foot, make more things happen. He is neither a DCM nor a creative attacking midfielder, and should be competing with Lo Celso to play alongside a DCM in more of an '8' role.

 

[Timberwolf]

I would say that Lo Celso is the best in our squad at that.

My main complaint with Winks, and maybe this is him following instruction rather than a limitation, but he too often takes the safe option and passes to a FB or a CB, and slowly, when he could have moved the ball either more quickly or into the feet of one of our forward players. When he is paired with Sissoko this means we rarely pass the ball with any intent though midfield, and rely 100% on Aurier or Davies providing any attacking creativity (which explains the performances against Bournemouth, Sheffield United and Everton).

Winks statistics shows he does not contribute offensively - he has only created 3 big chances (2 assists) in 90 games, 2 goals in 90 games. He also offers little defensively with less than 1 tackle and 1 interception per game in that same period. He also offers no aerial threat at either end.

His main asset is that in the middle third he has a nice burst of acceleration through tight gaps with the ball (which he only uses when forced to get out of a tight situation as a last resort) and is capable of incisive passing when we are chasing a game. He needs to get more on the front foot, make more things happen. He is neither a DCM nor a creative attacking midfielder, and should be competing with Lo Celso to play alongside a DCM in more of an '8' role.

I think Lo Celso is a much more talented player than Winks, but I still think Winks is a bit better at those quick, simple metronomic passes in our own half. Being more talented, Lo Celso is more inclined to dribble and maybe give the ball away, whereas you always know Winks will protect it and keep things simple.

But yes, agree with pretty much everything else you say. The problem is he plays it too safe and curbs our attacking threat. This is why I think he'd be better as the link player in a 3, alongside a proper DM and Lo Celso/Ndombele, in a kind of Jorginho role.

 

[Phil_2.0]

To quote a certain poster formerly of this parish, Winks is a bit of a curate's egg.

If you play him as the deeper of a CM 2 he lacks the physicality or natural defensive awareness to excel.

But then if you play him as the more attacking member of a CM2 his passing is too pedestrian to really threaten or open up teams and he essentially never scores or assists.

Does that make him a bad player? Not at all. He's the best player in the entire squad at taking the ball under pressure and picking a simple, intelligent pass. You need players like that in a squad and we could've really done with someone like Winks in the early Poch years.

He's also not terrible in either of the CM2 roles I mentioned. He always runs around a lot, tries his best to cover the passing lanes, puts in the odd tackle and, of course, allows us to maintain possession.

Whichever way you look at it he's a really useful player to have in the squad and I think it's easy to forget how important the simple, boring things he does are. If we had Dier in his position these last few games we would've looked a completely different side.

Put him in a CM3 and/or play him in the right games and he'll be a true asset. Expect him to be a dynamic box to box CM or a destroyer and you'll be disappointed.

Really do not understand what you mean by him lacking natural defensive awareness?

 

[Timberwolf]

Really do not understand what you mean by him lacking natural defensive awareness?

He doesn't sense danger and sniff it out in the way that you would want a defensive midfielder to do.

His strengths are harrying players on the ball and covering passing lanes, which are more about willingness to run and commitment, rather than defensive awareness.

But when there are loose balls in the box or opposition players making incisive runs, how often do you see Winks reading those runs, cutting them out and making important blocks? Not very often.

It's a bit like how some strikers just have a nose for goal and know how to find space and time their runs. Some defensive players just have a knack for reading the game defensively - Ledley King (albeit in a different position) was incredible at this.

Winks, on the other hand, just isn't very strong in that area, and he lacks the physicality to be more of a 'destroyer'.

 

[Phil_2.0]

He doesn't sense danger and sniff it out in the way that you would want a defensive midfielder to do.

His strengths are harrying players on the ball and covering passing lanes, which are more about willingness to run and commitment, rather than defensive awareness.

But when there are loose balls in the box or opposition players making incisive runs, how often do you see Winks reading those runs, cutting them out and making important blocks? Not very often.

It's a bit like how some strikers just have a nose for goal and know how to find space and time their runs. Some defensive players just have a knack for reading the game defensively - Ledley King (albeit in a different position) was incredible at this.

Winks, on the other hand, just isn't very strong in that area, and he lacks the physicality to be more of a 'destroyer'.

Cutting out passing lanes is completely about defensive awareness no?

Lots of times I see him covering in the channels and trying to stop breaks when we're up high. Hes played as a holding midfielder for a long time, there are few problems with his awareness. The issue is mainly physical with Winks, hes not bad physically and he can compete but hes nowhere near elite in that department.

Winks is a really decent player hes just a bit short of pace and strength to be the midfield destroyer Mourinho wants.

 

[Shadydan]

Winks does lack natural defensive awareness maybe because he isn't a natural DM and never was, an example of that was against Man Utd when he didn't help out Dier for their penalty, not the first time he's done that either, he'll have to improve on that and probably will no doubt.

 

[Phil_2.0]

Winks does lack natural defensive awareness maybe because he isn't a natural DM and never was, an example of that was against Man Utd when he didn't help out Dier for their penalty, not the first time he's done that either, he'll have to improve on that and probably will no doubt.

I watched a lot of him in the youth team and he spent a lot of time in the 4 hole. Never has ever been an attacking midfielder.

 

[Shadydan]

I watched a lot of him in the youth team and he spent a lot of time in the 4 hole. Never has ever been an attacking midfielder.

There's another position in midfield which has always been his natural natural position which is a no6 (CMF), he has never been a holding midfielder.

Besides this is a different argument altogether, we are discussing if he has natural defensive awareness, it's clear that he doesn't.

 

[TEESSIDE1]

Probably just newspaper dribble but a few are saying Hojbjerg in Winks out for £25-30m.

 

[Shadydan]

Probably just newspaper dribble but a few are saying Hojbjerg in Winks out for £25-30m.

Can't see us selling homegrown

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Winks is as likely to be some as I am to kickstart my footballing career now at almost 35 with an almost 36 waist and all the balance and spatial awareness of a blind one legged penguin that’s been set on fire.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

My main complaint with Winks, and maybe this is him following instruction rather than a limitation, but he too often takes the safe option and passes to a FB or a CB, and slowly, when he could have moved the ball either more quickly or into the feet of one of our forward players.

When Winks first broke into the first team, I remember being impressed by how quickly he got his head up and looked for a forwards pass...often while having the highest pass completion % on the pitch. He seems to have gradually become more risk averse without improving his pass completion stats. Maybe this is what he's been coached to do in recent years, or perhaps injuries / loss of form caused him to lose confidence.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

Wouldn't surprise me to see Hojbjerg and Winks in a partnership.

 

[spids]

When Winks first broke into the first team, I remember being impressed by how quickly he got his head up and looked for a forwards pass...often while having the highest pass completion % on the pitch. He seems to have gradually become more risk averse without improving his pass completion stats. Maybe this is what he's been coached to do in recent years, or perhaps injuries / loss of form caused him to lose confidence.

I have the same recollection. I think it does not help having Sissoko alongside him as Sissoko never wants the ball in our own half - he almost hides so that he is not an option. That makes Winks job of finding one of the front three even harder. If Winks could play it into the feet of his CM partner and they in turn had the awareness / vision to play it first time around the corner into one of our forward players, with both Winks and the other CM moving to make themselves available for a return if needed we'd be a lot more dynamic. Instead, Winks gets it, and has to find a forwards feet directly or roll it sideways to a defender.

 

[Timberwolf]

Wouldn't surprise me to see Hojbjerg and Winks in a partnership.

Considering one the major complaints about Hojbjerg among Saints fans is that he constantly passes backwards and sideways, I think this partnership would frustrate a lot of people (although I'm sure it will be useful on occasion).

I'm more hopeful that, since Hojbjerg is more of a unit and better at winning the ball than Winks, Jose will feel comfortable pairing him up with Ndombele.

 

[Monkey boy]

Would love to replace him and Sissoko with Hoejberg and Van de Beek.

if reports in this mornings papers are true and we can get anywhere close to £30m for Winks we should bite whoever is dumb enough to pay that hands off.

 

[DiVaio]

Would love to replace him and Sissoko with Hoejberg and Van de Beek.

if reports in this mornings papers are true and we can get anywhere close to £30m for Winks we should bite whoever is dumb enough to pay that hands off.

It's not true and we would have only 3-4 HG players in the club next season.

 

[spursfan77]

No chance we sell winks. He’s home grown and English. In and out of the england squad too.