FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk Vs Tottenham: Match Thread

[Kiedis]

I wasn't sure how you came to this conclusion before the match, and I'm still confused.

He definitely proved me wrong, and I'm as happy as anyone about that.

His last appearances before this one wasn't exactly promising, so it's not like I made the comment based on nothing.

 

[Kendall]

Anderton was a good player for us lamela thus far has not been, i hope that was your point?

I think it was more along the lines of Anderton's long and consistent injury niggles over many years, being compare with Lamela's what? 12 weeks out?

 

[dondo]

I think it was more along the lines of Anderton's long and consistent injury niggles over many years, being compare with Lamela's what? 12 weeks out?

My bad think i got the wrong end of the stick. Thought it was another lamela the new messi type comments

 

[WalkerboyUK]

I actually thought Soldado's build up play was one of the only positives about our display. Some of those touches and bursts forward created dangerous attacks and if we had better players around him last night, we would have punished Dnipro.

The problem is that when he's involved in the build up play, he's not in the box to be on the end of it.
And when you only play with 1 striker, that's going to be a big issue.
We've seen the same happen with Adebayor over the last 18 months. He is happy to float out wide to get the ball, but then there's an empty penalty area.
If a manager wants a striker to work on the build up play or drift wide, he has to either play a 2nd striker or play midfielders in a position where they will be in the box when required, not still 30 yards from goal.

 

[postigol]

If you think he's a problem what about the 30 million spent on the next Darren Anderton? At least Soldado turns up and plays in the odd game or three.

Unfortunately, being compared to Lamela to not be classed as a flop does Soldado no favours.

We need to face the fact that they have both been expensive flops and offload the pair in the summer. We're likely to take a bit of a hit on each of them, but the real damage will be to big-fee signings for Spurs. We have seen this before.

When we signed Rebrov in 2000 for £11m it blew away our previous transfer record by 83% - which was £6m for Les Ferdinand I believe, but there were several players signed in the £4-6m range. Anyway, Rebrov turned out to be a flop and the club got its fingers burnt. Levy was then circumspect in terms of big fees for quite some time after that:

Dean Richards - £8.1m in 2001.
Robbie Keane - £7m in 2002.
Jermain Defoe - £7m in 2004.

Even when we signed Berbatov in 2006 for £10.9m, the fee didn't break Rebrov's record but had finally at least caught up to that level.

Then Levy learned to love splurging again and regained his big-fee confidence, leading to:

Darren Bent - £16.5m in 2007 - breaking our record by 50%
David Bentley - £15m in 2008
Luca Modric - £16.5m in 2008
Roman Pavlyuchenko - £13.7m in 2008

As we now know, Bent was a flop and we were lucky to get most of our money back, Bentley was a complete loss of £15m, and Pav did okay without being a runaway success and we ended up making a small loss on him. Only Modric was a successful signing. Back to several years of comparatively circumpsect operation, the highlights being:

Robbie Keane - £12m in 2009
Jermain Defoe - £15.75m in 2009
Wilson Palacios - £12m in 2009
Peter Crouch - £10m in 2009

Even these four were signed as an emergency release of funds when we faced the prospect of relegation and Redknapp called for reinforcements.

After that we prettymuch signed nobody for more than £6-7m right up to AVB. Finally Levy decides it's time to take a risk again, first starting with Paulinho who at £17m just popped the previous £16.5m record rather than smashing it. But later that summer the record was truly smashed with £26m for Soldado and £30m for Lamela - breaking the Bent reocrd by 57.5% and 82% respectively. And now we face the prospect of both being flops.

Sorry for the long post, but all this now draws back to the bit I bolded earlier on. If these guys do flop (and I now think they both have) then based on past behaviour I'd expect this will mark the end of mega-fee signings for a few years, especially given that 'cheaper' players like Chiriches, Eriksen and Paulinho have all done well - Levy will refocus on the £10-20m price bracket for 'big' signings.

 

[Oscar22]

Amazing. We now refuse to even give new signings one entire season before hailing them as flops.

Give it two years and we can be at a stage where if you don't have a 'Mido debut' the fans storm the pitch and tear up your new contract in front of you citing "he didn't get us in the champions league this week" as the reason.

 

[Mr Pink]

It's difficult to give a guy a season to write off when he cost 26m and is 28 and a seasoned international. This isn't Lamela at 21 we're talking about here. He was bought to score NOW and quite frankly Adebayor is now showing up every single limitation he has. Before Ade came back we could blame everyone else, there's nobody to blame now. Soldado is not doing enough to justify a wage, let alone a place in the team.

Ok then, each to their own I suppose.

 

[robin09]

If he'd scored that bobbling tap in last night, nobody would be claiming he's a flop today.

He'd have been commended for his link up, and general passing play, and for scoring a goal.

As it is, one miss last night completely changes the impression of him and fans have the knives out. We HAVE to show more patience with new players, yes he's not scored as many as we/he would have expected this season, but if there's one thing we know he's capable of in his career, it's scoring. Is he good enough to score a tap in? Of course he is, more often than not. He's scored every penalty and a hat trick for us this season. He'll be a good player for us, or if for some reason we panic, a good player for someone else.

 

[Kendall]

If he'd scored that bobbling tap in last night, nobody would be claiming he's a flop today.

He'd have been commended for his link up, and general passing play, and for scoring a goal.

As it is, one miss last night completely changes the impression of him and fans have the knives out. We HAVE to show more patience with new players, yes he's not scored as many as we/he would have expected this season, but if there's one thing we know he's capable of in his career, it's scoring. Is he good enough to score a tap in? Of course he is, more often than not. He's scored every penalty and a hat trick for us this season. He'll be a good player for us, or if for some reason we panic, a good player for someone else.

So what you're saying is, if he'd been scoring goals we wouldn't be complaining?

Oh.

I'm sorry, but of course he's going to get shit for missing that sitter, not because he missed a single sitter (Chadli missed one too) but because he's been doing it consistently now for a while, whilst offering very little in addition.

At this stage, we know he's capable of scoring in La Liga, we haven't seen anything in what? 7 months now which suggests he's capable of scoring goals consistently for Tottenham.

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

Unfortunately, being compared to Lamela to not be classed as a flop does Soldado no favours.

We need to face the fact that they have both been expensive flops and offload the pair in the summer. We're likely to take a bit of a hit on each of them, but the real damage will be to big-fee signings for Spurs. We have seen this before.

When we signed Rebrov in 2000 for £11m it blew away our previous transfer record by 83% - which was £6m for Les Ferdinand I believe, but there were several players signed in the £4-6m range. Anyway, Rebrov turned out to be a flop and the club got its fingers burnt. Levy was then circumspect in terms of big fees for quite some time after that:

Dean Richards - £8.1m in 2001.
Robbie Keane - £7m in 2002.
Jermain Defoe - £7m in 2004.

Even when we signed Berbatov in 2006 for £10.9m, the fee didn't break Rebrov's record but had finally at least caught up to that level.

Then Levy learned to love splurging again and regained his big-fee confidence, leading to:

Darren Bent - £16.5m in 2007 - breaking our record by 50%
David Bentley - £15m in 2008
Luca Modric - £16.5m in 2008
Roman Pavlyuchenko - £13.7m in 2008

As we now know, Bent was a flop and we were lucky to get most of our money back, Bentley was a complete loss of £15m, and Pav did okay without being a runaway success and we ended up making a small loss on him. Only Modric was a successful signing. Back to several years of comparatively circumpsect operation, the highlights being:

Robbie Keane - £12m in 2009
Jermain Defoe - £15.75m in 2009
Wilson Palacios - £12m in 2009
Peter Crouch - £10m in 2009

Even these four were signed as an emergency release of funds when we faced the prospect of relegation and Redknapp called for reinforcements.

After that we prettymuch signed nobody for more than £6-7m right up to AVB. Finally Levy decides it's time to take a risk again, first starting with Paulinho who at £17m just popped the previous £16.5m record rather than smashing it. But later that summer the record was truly smashed with £26m for Soldado and £30m for Lamela - breaking the Bent reocrd by 57.5% and 82% respectively. And now we face the prospect of both being flops.

Sorry for the long post, but all this now draws back to the bit I bolded earlier on. If these guys do flop (and I now think they both have) then based on past behaviour I'd expect this will mark the end of mega-fee signings for a few years, especially given that 'cheaper' players like Chiriches, Eriksen and Paulinho have all done well - Levy will refocus on the £10-20m price bracket for 'big' signings.

Again I think the logical question is, how can you be a 'flop' (defining their whole Spurs career to date and any future Spurs career our fickle fans allow them to have), when they have played less than a season? Yes, say they haven't lived up to expectation. yes, say you would have thought Soldado would have scored more by now. But also praise Soldados obvious class last night in the build up play (and other numerous examples this season) and acknowledge that actually given a bit of time they may define their career at Spurs on more than a few months.

 

[postigol]

Again I think the logical question is, how can you be a 'flop' (defining their whole Spurs career to date and any future Spurs career our fickle fans allow them to have), when they have played less than a season? Yes, say they haven't lived up to expectation. yes, say you would have thought Soldado would have scored more by now. But also praise Soldados obvious class last night in the build up play (and other numerous examples this season) and acknowledge that actually given a bit of time they may define their career at Spurs on more than a few months.

Yes, it's not alot of time but for £26m for a player judged to be at their peak you'd expect them to make a near immediate impact. He has missed several complete sitters, the latest being last night. I agree his all-round play looks classy, but we need someone to stick it in the net.
Time is a luxury neither players nor managers get much of, so I can't see the club giving him 2 full seasons to come good to be honest.
How can Soldado be judged? I guess the best yardsticks are against other strikers at the club and against other strikers we could have bought or who moved to the PL last summer for similar fees or less. I'm thinking Negredo, Wilfried Bony and Benteke. He has fared very poorly by the standards of the best of those (Negredo, Bony, Adebayor) and rather poorly by the standards of the worst (Defoe and Benteke).

You say fickle, but the sport as a whole is fickle - you can be a hero one minute and deadwood the next, that's not just spurs fans. Soldado's abilities seem limited to nice touches in build-up play and taking penalties, both very useful but not enough.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Yes, it's not alot of time but for £26m for a player judged to be at their peak you'd expect them to make a near immediate impact. He has missed several complete sitters, the latest being last night. I agree his all-round play looks classy, but we need someone to stick it in the net.
Time is a luxury neither players nor managers get much of, so I can't see the club giving him 2 full seasons to come good to be honest.
How can Soldado be judged? I guess the best yardsticks are against other strikers at the club and against other strikers we could have bought or who moved to the PL last summer for similar fees or less. I'm thinking Negredo, Wilfried Bony and Benteke. He has fared very poorly by the standards of the best of those (Negredo, Bony, Adebayor) and rather poorly by the standards of the worst (Defoe and Benteke).

You say fickle, but the sport as a whole is fickle - you can be a hero one minute and deadwood the next, that's not just spurs fans. Soldado's abilities seem limited to nice touches in build-up play and taking penalties, both very useful but not enough.

So I guess you thought Drogba was a flop when he first moved to Chelsea?

 

[Huddlestone22]

Anderton was a good player for us lamela thus far has not been, i hope that was your point?

Well it wasn't me comparing the two, so no that wasn't my point

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

A total of 10 goals and 4 assists in 27 appearances, in a brand new team, brand new country, brand new culture, brand new system (twice), brand new manager (twice), whilst struggling to find his best form. I genuinely think people are going way over the top with their dismissal of Soldado, and are far too quick to not acknowledge what he HAS done, so far, in a THFC shirt.

I expect, "yeah 4 of them were penalties", and you'd be right. However, those penalties have played a MASSIVE part in keeping us, somehow, in contact with the teams above us. His assists have done the same. His penalties are easily dismissed, yet our £26mil penalty taker would've been MUCH appreciated if he replaced the £42.5mil penalty taker that Arseanal have in their ranks (who, I believe, has missed his 2 penalties so far?).

Maybe it's better to appreciate what Soldado HAS done, rather than concentrate solely upon what he is yet to do? Didn't the brilliantly gifted Suarez (and he IS a heck of a player) only score 7 goals in his first season in the PL? How'd he get on after settling properly? Perspective people, perspective..

Maybe take into account that Soldado never decided the fee we paid for him too?

 

[robin09]

So what you're saying is, if he'd been scoring goals we wouldn't be complaining?

Oh.

I'm sorry, but of course he's going to get shit for missing that sitter, not because he missed a single sitter (Chadli missed one too) but because he's been doing it consistently now for a while, whilst offering very little in addition.

At this stage, we know he's capable of scoring in La Liga, we haven't seen anything in what? 7 months now which suggests he's capable of scoring goals consistently for Tottenham.

Do strikers have bad runs of form? Yes

Do strikers take time to settle in a new league? Yes

Apart from his lack of goals, is he performing well enough? Yes

Do we sell him for a loss and start all over again, or do we do something rare, and show patience on the basis that what he's going through isn't unusual or even that unexpected?

 

[Kendall]

Do strikers have bad runs of form? Yes

Do strikers take time to settle in a new league? Yes

Apart from his lack of goals, is he performing well enough? Yes

Do we sell him for a loss and start all over again, or do we do something rare, and show patience on the basis that what he's going through isn't unusual or even that unexpected?

1, Agree
2, Agree,
3, Questionable. Is he really performing well other than scoring? I don't really see that he's contributed much at all. In fact, he just stands around for long periods waiting for the ball.

I've always stopped short at writing him off completely or labelling him a flop because I agree that it is too soon. but to date, he has not been nearly satisfactory. Yes it can take time for some strikers to settle, but that's why we bought a more mature striker, to limit that period. It is acceptable for someone like Lamela who looks like he wouldn't say boo to a goose to take time, because he's only just out of nappies. For Soldado I expect, nay, I demand more effort if he's going to be off form in front of goal.

 

[WexfordTownSpur]

I think we will win at the lane boys and comfortably but tonights performance regardless of pitch was not good enough. Defence all over the place as usual and Roberto Soldado's frustrations are there to see as he kicked the post after missing that sitter. Feel really sorry for him but you can't be missing chances like thati'm afraid. Anyway all will be forgotten if we can muster up a decent win against Norwich then go through next week.

If Tim plays the same team I am not sure it will be comfortable. I don't think he has to many choices at CB and LB and let's face it they beat our weak defence a few times and probably if not for brad could have had a couple more? If they get just one away goal, and I really think based on the home performance they could, it could all be over. So no I do not think it will be a comfortable night at all.

 

[dondo]

Well it wasn't me comparing the two, so no that wasn't my point

No you didnt compare the 2 but you mocked the guy that did, as if to say lamela is better than anderton or so i thought as kendal pointed out i may have the wrong end of the shitty stick

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Soldado's is a player of proven quality and a history of impressive goalscoring facts. His and our biggest problem is that neither suit each other and the consequences of this are far from positive. We needed a striker, but not just any striker, a striker with certain attributes. Soldado was identified by our scouting team as this man, when we all know he is not that man and will never be that man.. IMO the only viable solution is to find a way out that benefits both parties.

 

[WexfordTownSpur]

If he'd scored that bobbling tap in last night, nobody would be claiming he's a flop today.

He'd have been commended for his link up, and general passing play, and for scoring a goal.

As it is, one miss last night completely changes the impression of him and fans have the knives out. We HAVE to show more patience with new players, yes he's not scored as many as we/he would have expected this season, but if there's one thing we know he's capable of in his career, it's scoring. Is he good enough to score a tap in? Of course he is, more often than not. He's scored every penalty and a hat trick for us this season. He'll be a good player for us, or if for some reason we panic, a good player for someone else.

To be fair I think some have given him a chance. Last nights miss was really just the straw that broke the camels back for some! I think chances like last night he has to take at his level. It seems obvious that Tim has now decided to play one up front, and I am afraid in the EPL than one is Ada! So missing lasts nights chance was a big deal I am afraid.