Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[DanielJohnCosta]

how do I sound like wenger, I'm a spurs fan. Arsenal and Chelsea are in the mix for big make players. Chelsea got their man, arsenal look like they'll get Declan rice. That's the point. Where are spurs in these conversations keeping for top talent?

deflecting from the point by saying I sound like wenger but what point are you trying to prove? that one summer with one 60m signing is taking a club forward that wishes to compete. We aren't trying to win anything.

managers asked for skriniar and bastoni and they're given Rodon and bastoni. Real backing there.

your point is that arsenal are more ambitious because they almost sign players, we do the exact same thing and once again I'll use Bastoni argument.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

It would make a massive difference.

sadly it wouldn't as much people would like but heh who knows - when you are outnumbered in midfield to the point you can't keep the ball as there are no options then there is no pressure on the ball when you are defending even top defenders begin to look vulnerable

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Fred was a donkey.

Garnacho still had to be played. Still had to be backed by the manager.

Conte was given Bentacur, Romero, Kulu, Bissouma, Richarlison, and Perisic, on top of already having PEH, Son and Kane. Conte has been given players. That's a pretty good two windows.

Dier - not good enough
Sanchez - not good enough
Tanganga - not good enough
Doherty/Royal/Spence - not good enough
Davies - squad player
Lenglet - squad player
Sessegnon - not good enough
Gil - not good enough
Lucas - perma-crocked
Son - fallen badly out of form
Lloris now - fallen out of form

No matter what Conte has been "given" - the squad is still full of players who are not reliable enough to start regularly.

ANd - on. top of that - the players you listed above - Bentancur, Romero, Kulusevski, Richarlison- have all missed big chunks of the season through injury - so, if he does not have the "good" players available, and has to play the others - why would anyone expect consistent results or performances.

Right now - setting injuries aside - we need two starting CBs, a starting RWB, and a back-up RW - at a minimum. they don't all need to come in in January - but stop talking about "backing the manager" until he has been properly backed. Yes money has been spent - but it hasn't been enough, and there are gaping holes that still need to be filled.

 

[YB123]

he is taking us away from it quicker than he got us there this season we will be fortunate to qualify for Europe

Yep Tottenham Hotspur FC, those regulars of the UCL for the past 3 or 4 seasons....

 

[Joshua shepherd]

Fred was a donkey.

Garnacho still had to be played. Still had to be backed by the manager.

Conte was given Bentacur, Romero, Kulu, Bissouma, Richarlison, and Perisic, on top of already having PEH, Son and Kane. Conte has been given players. That's a pretty good two windows.

Kulu and Bentancur have hovered around world class. Richarlison and Romero (despite already being here) have shown glimpses. Perisic has racked up the assists.

Not one of those players is a defensive player, our biggest weakness is in defence. Coincidence?

 

[JacoZA]

Levy has made 3 poor appointments not in keeping with the football club

Conte has to go I doubt Levy will

I deeply admire what Levy has achieved at THFC from a business perspective. The stadium, the training ground, etc. are things we could and should all be very proud of.

But now that that is all in place, his mishandling of football matters is becoming much more of a liability. What he's gotten wrong stretches far beyond a few poor appointments. (Not to mention the disgustingly spineless way in which the club now seems to be spinning the narrative.)

I don't absolve Antonio from all responsibility of current performance, but that we're even having conversations about the abilities of a manager of Conte's level shows that something's rotten in the district of N17, and while I also doubt Levy will go - he should not get off lightly should Conte leave.

IMO what we should be debating is what should accountability look like at the club when a manager is let go.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

I get that, I really do and I can't say that I've been enamoured by Conte this season but for me, this trend of firing and hiring has to stop somewhere and I've reached that point now.
I don't particularly think that Conte is the ideal fit for us but at one stage Levy did, if only to save his own skin.
It doesn't matter who's in the dugout anymore, while Levy is in the big chair we'll always come up short.

To be honest, Conte has become the figurehead of our frustration, more than being the saviour of the club.
All the while Levy is flitting from plan to plan, manager to manager, we're never going to get anywhere.

The stadium will help us compete? Spurs DNA?
It's all bollocks while he won't spend the money or set his mind to one idea and follow it through.

I can't argue with that really - I have tried to but I can't - I do think we have to be bolder in the transfer market we should be looking at top players but I have zero faith in that Conte is the right man to do that or that Levy is really brave enough either without there being the potential for some reward further down the way . Which to be fair can work to some degree but it needs to be mixed in with signing at least a top talent or two along the way which we seem to have missed for all manner of reasons

 

[septicsac]

Don't worry Antonio, Danial will be greasing up the bearings on the front of the mythical wheelbarrow shortly and all will be well in the world again, well at least for a few days before the barrow returns, unemptyed and put away for the following window.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

I deeply admire what Levy has achieved at THFC from a business perspective. The stadium, the training ground, etc. are things we could and should all be very proud of.

But now that that is all in place, his mishandling of football matters is becoming much more of a liability. What he's gotten wrong stretches far beyond a few poor appointments. (Not to mention the disgustingly spineless way in which the club now seems to be spinning the narrative.)

I don't absolve Antonio from all responsibility of current performance, but that we're even having conversations about the abilities of a manager of Conte's level shows that something's rotten in the district of N17, and while I also doubt Levy will go - he should not get off lightly should Conte leave.

IMO what we should be debating is what should accountability look like at the club when a manager is let go.

What your saying is fine I don't agree with the bit about Conte but heh - the last bit though its true never happens anywhere in the world and never will

 

[Trotter]

If you believe the solution is to sack Conte for little on-field success after 14 months, remember that the guy who will choose his replacement hasn’t achieved that in 22 years.

If Conte goes, Levy should go.

And there you won’t get people who want Conte sacked disagreeing.
Conte should go.. levy should go.

where the issue and major disagreement is, is by the people behaving like ostriches demanding Levy gives Conte say half a billion, despite Conte seriously underperforming to levels below which his predecessor was sacked for, but somehow none of it is his fault l, and he should be blindly trusted when all the signs so far are that it would be throwing good money after bad.
Really laughable stuff.

 

[steve]

Back him or sack him Levy, you appointed him, you either do one or the other now.

 

[Albertbarich]

Yeah it's not about Conte for me at all.

He's a really high level coach but I don't really have any affection for him as he seems to be quite aloof towards the club and the football is pretty naff.

But don't see the point in getting rid of him leaving us with the same issues that every other coach has faced.

When he came I thought this would give Levy no wriggle room as the bloke succeeds everywhere and that's turning out to be true.

The fanbase has had enough and the club has nowhere to go.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

To add a bit of context to the discussion:

It seems pretty clear that Conte wanted a new RWB in the summer and Spence wasn't the player he wanted. We can all see this has been a key weakness all season.

We started the season in relatively good form, then were impacted by injuries.

Romero was out injured twice before the World Cup. His second absence coincided with us conceding first in almost every game. He was understandably late back from the World Cup and hasn't been at his best since. He's clearly our best CB, so we shouldn't underestimate the impact this has on our team (Liverpool's form takes a dive every time VVD gets injured).
EDIT: Dier's drop in form (increase in individual errors) coincided with Romero's second injury.

Bentancur - one of the first names on the team sheet - is currently injured. Our CM unit is not as good as we'd like it to be (Conte has to take some of the blame for that), but Bentancur is the best of the bunch and has put in some top-class performances this season, so without him I don't know what anyone expects from our midfield.

We've been stricken by injuries to our attacking players, with 2-4 attacking players out injured at any given time for half a season. This has clearly impacted on Conte's ability to rotate / options from the bench and means whoever is fit plays, rather than whoever is in best form (never a healthy situation).
Richarlison has been injured twice - unavailable for 13 games and evidently not fit enough to start nor impact games immediately upon his return from either injury.
Kulusevski was unavailable for 10 consecutive games before the World Cup and is only just getting back to match fitness now.
Son broke his cheek (he may have been in bad form, but Richarlison, Kulusevski & Moura were all injured when it happened, leaving us with only Kane & Gil for the next match).
Moura (our 2nd choice RW) hasn't been fit to play since August.
Poch and Harry both achieved top 4 finishes in spite of injuries to key players (e.g. Modric broken leg / Kane ankle sprain), but I don't think they ever had as much disruption to one area of the pitch as this.

Is it fair to judge Conte before we have most of our attacking options available (and actually match-fit), and before we have signed a RWB that he wants and that fits his system? If we get to February and we've achieved both of those things, then we should surely have reason to expect better performances and results. In the meantime, is it possible that we're expecting Conte to defy the odds just because Poch managed to for a few years (but then was ousted as soon as he failed to)?

 

[steve]

Yeah it's not about Conte for me at all.

He's a really high level coach but I don't really have any affection for him as he seems to be quite aloof towards the club and the football is pretty naff.

But don't see the point in getting rid of him leaving us with the same issues that every other coach has faced.

When he came I thought this would give Levy no wriggle room as the bloke succeeds everywhere and that's turning out to be true.

The fanbase has had enough and the club has nowhere to go.

The football isn't the best but it's all on Levy, the club can try and blame Conte or Para and I've seen WLB allude to this but I'm not buying it anymore. Levy has to take responsibility for the appointments HE makes.

You don't bring in Conte and Para and then hang them out to dry. You give them time and backing and that's more than 18 months or a year and 2 or 3 transfer windows.

Levy can try and blame everyone else but the buck stops with him. People aren't falling for it anymore (I hope), we've got ourselves around the top table, now is the time to push through and carry on what we've begun.

If Conte goes the choruses of Levy out will get louder and louder. If he doesn't sign good players this window it'll become deafening. It's shit or bust for Levy. I think he'll bust sadly.

 

[carpediem1906]

Dier - not good enough
Sanchez - not good enough
Tanganga - not good enough
Doherty/Royal/Spence - not good enough
Davies - squad player
Lenglet - squad player
Sessegnon - not good enough
Gil - not good enough
Lucas - perma-crocked
Son - fallen badly out of form
Lloris now - fallen out of form

No matter what Conte has been "given" - the squad is still full of players who are not reliable enough to start regularly.

ANd - on. top of that - the players you listed above - Bentancur, Romero, Kulusevski, Richarlison- have all missed big chunks of the season through injury - so, if he does not have the "good" players available, and has to play the others - why would anyone expect consistent results or performances.

Right now - setting injuries aside - we need two starting CBs, a starting RWB, and a back-up RW - at a minimum. they don't all need to come in in January - but stop talking about "backing the manager" until he has been properly backed. Yes money has been spent - but it hasn't been enough, and there are gaping holes that still need to be filled.

So the point here is, no other manager is going to succeed with this squad! No one.

you will get that immediate new manager bounce! you will even maybe be cheering the team on because we go on the front foot, and attack and first halves are more fun and entertaining again! Some young player may even look like the next messiah, udogie or sarr or bissouma

but that is all temporary relief!

because, soon, regardless of who the manager is, the gaping deficiencies in the squad will come to fore and we will not win anything still!

Players like deki, Bentacur, Romero will not want to renew their contracts (Kane s

then that manager will get sacked, rinse n repeat.

why are we persisting in chasing that temporary relief??!??

And letting Levy get away with this darn doom cycle

Conte is the right man to trust in this process BECAUSE (I) we have seen glimpses of beautiful football (maybe this season not so much admittedly) (2) we have gaping deficiencies yet to be solved (3) he has a proven track record of ability to compete AND win!

so if there’s anyone to trust, trust Conte

hence why it’s a battle to get Levy to back Conte

 

[carpediem1906]

To add a bit of context to the discussion:

It seems pretty clear that Conte wanted a new RWB in the summer and Spence wasn't the player he wanted. We can all see this has been a key weakness all season.

We started the season in relatively good form, then were impacted by injuries.

Romero was out injured twice before the World Cup. His second absence coincided with us conceding first in almost every game. He was understandably late back from the World Cup and hasn't been at his best since. He's clearly our best CB, so we shouldn't underestimate the impact this has on our team (Liverpool's form takes a dive every time VVD gets injured).
EDIT: Dier's drop in form (increase in individual errors) coincided with Romero's second injury.

Bentancur - one of the first names on the team sheet - is currently injured. Our CM unit is not as good as we'd like it to be (Conte has to take some of the blame for that), but Bentancur is the best of the bunch and has put in some top-class performances this season, so without him I don't know what anyone expects from our midfield.

We've been stricken by injuries to our attacking players, with 2-4 attacking players out injured at any given time for half a season. This has clearly impacted on Conte's ability to rotate / options from the bench and means whoever is fit plays, rather than whoever is in best form (never a healthy situation).
Richarlison has been injured twice - unavailable for 13 games and evidently not fit enough to start nor impact games immediately upon his return from either injury.
Kulusevski was unavailable for 10 consecutive games before the World Cup and is only just getting back to match fitness now.
Son broke his cheek (he may have been in bad form, but Richarlison, Kulusevski & Moura were all injured when it happened, leaving us with only Kane & Gil for the next match).
Moura (our 2nd choice RW) hasn't been fit to play since August.
Poch and Harry both achieved top 4 finishes in spite of injuries to key players (e.g. Modric broken leg / Kane ankle sprain), but I don't think they ever had as much disruption to one area of the pitch as this.

Is it fair to judge Conte before we have most of our attacking options available (and actually match-fit), and before we have signed a RWB that he wants and that fits his system? If we get to February and we've achieved both of those things, then we should surely have reason to expect better performances and results. In the meantime, is it possible that we're expecting Conte to defy the odds just because Poch managed to for a few years (but then was ousted as soon as he failed to)?

Exactly this
STILL not the right time to cast judgment YET

Not just RWB
LCB
Even CCB

and we thought we have enough squad depth for our attacking players and hence Gil not leaving on loan ie us not signing another attacking player so now we are in desperate need of another attacking option

and suddenly Hugo is in bad form, so now we need GK option too, but maybe not as urgent as the above 4.

so in terms of urgency
RWB
AM
LCB
This 3 must be sorted
Then CCB and GK

can 3 signings make us win the epl? ??‍ but I’d say 3 CORRECT fit like Bentacur n Deki n Romero will definitely see us in top 4 and being able to compete in matches against top 6 opposition

 

[midge]

I think Conte this year was like Arteta last year.
They bought him players , the team did not play well generally. Played well in patches.
They stuck with him and backed him
This year it all clicked and with some good luck with the out of form of Liverpool and Chelsea and Man City, they got a chance at the title

 

[slartibartfast]

As pissed off as I am with Conte he has to stay imo. We have to back him and get him to commit.
If he goes then Levy has to go as well because he clearly has no idea what to do on the football side.
Who the hell appoints Conte, pays him top dollar, and then doesnt give him what he needs? Only an idiot.
You can't have our stadium and carry on pretending to be a big club, you have to act like it. I believe Poch and Jose alluded to this.
Maybe listen Mr Levy?
Maybe Conte will be backed and maybe he stays. I hate the football we're playing but we're still 5th (how I don't know). Wasn't long ago that would have been an achievement. However we're no longer that team so buck your ideas up Levy and get these players in now or theres a giant egg heading directly for your face.

 

[glacierSpurs]

IMO Paratici will be so important, in both business wise and relationship wise as a medium between Levy and Conte. As always, will keep giving him the benefit of doubts thinking he's working real hard behind the scenes fire fighting. ??

 

[sundanceyid10]

Do you really think we don’t need an upgrade at CB?

We need an upgrade at Chairman.