Class of 2010-12

[SpursManChris]

In recent weeks/months I have seen a growing number of people going on about our team from 2010-12. I'm sure we have all seen that screen shot pic of our midfield from then via twitter or on here., then go and hear fellow fans reminisce about the good old days. I'm sorry but I just don't buy it.

Our team of 2010-12 did indeed at times play some very easy on the eye football and pull off a few big wins, but for me I see that team/era as one of massive underachievement. That team should have secured CL football in each of the 2 seasons they were together, yet on both occasions a spectacular end of season collapse saw us miss out both times.

A weeks after beating Milan away we faced a Blackpool side who were in a shocking run of form in late Feb, yet we somehow managed to lose that game. I can remember being at that game and fuming at our failure to win it on my long journey home. Because of our euphoria of the away win against Milan the result was excused by most and with that we went on to win only 1 of our next 10 PL games. In other words we threw away a CL spot when it was there for the taking.

The following season after beating Newcastle 4-0 at home we faced Arsenal next in late Feb, we took a early 2-0 lead yet managed to get hammered 5-2. We were 10 points clear of AFC going into that game. we went on to win only 1 of our next 9 PL games after Newcastle, yet again throwing away a CL spot. It wasn't because Fulop threw 3 into his net or our failure to beat Villa when we was given a unexpected second bite of the cherry, but because of our collapse preceding that.

Back then a few of us, BC/Sloth/Arnoldlayne/etc, could clearly see the team we had should be doing so much better but our arguments were falling on deaf ears. Make no mistake about it that team underachieved in both League and domestic cups, it could/should have done so much better. Unlike others I look back at that period with regret knowing we really should have cemented our CL status and maybe reached a cup final between 2010-12....

Are you differing the CL qualifying team to the 2010-12 team? Really just on account of VDV?

 

[sunnydelight786]

Are you differing the CL qualifying team to the 2010-12 team? Really just on account of VDV?

Gallas, Sandro, Ade, Parker, Walker and Friedel, that's half a different team from 09-10......

 

[shelfboy68]

Absolutely agree. I've always said the best time to invest is from a position of strength. That's how you consolidate your position. We did it after winning the double by signing Greaves and all the successful teams don't just sit there collectively sucking each others dicks, but constantly strive for improvement.

Of course we haven't had the resources of a CL team, but we could have still invested more to keep the team competitive.

The relative underachievement of the team of 2010-12 has to go down as 50/50 between Harry and the board for me. Yes, Harry should have achieved more with the players we had (we lost some ridiculous games at crucial times), but the Nelson/Saha window was a joke and the refusal to pay market value for players and always going for the cheap option (despite being willing to piss away millions and millions on compensation for various managers, staff, DOf etc) was a complete false economy imo.

Massive opportunity missed by the whole club from board to manager and players and one of the main reasons imo for the understandable disillusionment of our fans.

Even so, that was a great time to be Spurs fan, with several genuine world class players, great football and a genuine feel good factor about Spurs (even if most of us knew it could unravel at any moment). We were also the darlings of the media and even had rival teams slightly shitting themselves about us.

Now they are most likely going to laugh patronisingly at us.

Sad but true.

Spot on brother that team was the best i had seen since the 80s with a few tweaks we could have gone on and done really well imo.
And yes it was a total mess up from board to playing staff and yet again we are playing Catch up which i honestly cant see us doing a real wasted oppurtunity.

 

[shelfboy68]

The fact that you're even mentioning Real and Utd shows you're a bit deluded I'm afraid, Real And Utd have bagfuls of cash, CL football and the history to actively strengthen their team with quality players, what makes you think we could have done that? Also if I recall at the time mid season of the 2011-12 season in Jan we tried to get Remy (got rejected) and Vertonghten (didn't want to move mid season) who do you propse we'd buy in Jan

That wasn't our failure at all, the failure was the manager being unable to utilise the squad properly and our first teamers being burned out physically and mentally, the team was more than good enough to secure CL football but we blew it on many occasions.

Do you know how much 'top class' strikers cost?

Right first lets dispense with this shit about People being deluded and or name calling as this is the problem with the likes of your kind on here who when posting their opinion dont like it challenged or someone else offering a different one.
I didnt call you deluded did i nor did i say We were on a par with the likes of Madrid/Utd financially or otherwise what i was alluding to was teams dont stand still but build on a position of strength which makes sense.
You felt that we didnt need to but we clearly did as the goals dried up and we started conceding a fair few as well,if we had brought one or two decent arrivals in then i reckon we would have made top four again.
And yes i do know how much a top class striker costs you and me both saw it saturday but i really dont understand how we couldnt be in the market for one around the 30 million Mark with all what we make from third highest ticket prices and tv money we could afford to go that far and get someone in who is decent.
Instead we are just lidl shopping hopping to strike in rich on a 8-10 million striker it aint gonna happen lets be honest money buys quality and We dont have a decent striker in Our ranks which is down to poor recruitment again.

 

[SpursDave88]

Especially in the January windows. Considering how close we missed third place combined with that midfield we played against City I have often tortured myself wondering if we'd got Parker sooner would we have lost to City that day, let alone get thrashed. Delaying on that transfer may well have cost us the solitary point we required.

But the biggest mistake Redknapp made was not having natural cover for Lennon. It all fell to pieces whenever Lennon got injured because we had to start playing players out of position to accommodate.

We didn't actually, we could have played Bale right and given Peinaar a run in his favoured LM position. Instead, Harry in his infinite wisdom preferred to play Modric on the left with Palacios in the middle...

 

[SpursDave88]

To belabour the point, had we gotten another 2 years of CL football, perhaps we could have gotten Di Maria and Ozil in exchange for Bale instead of a load of cash to piss away on Paulinho and Soldado.

 

[Sevens]

That's kind of the point isn't it ? That best group of players should have been playing Real Madrid three years running, which may have cemented another three years etc.

It was our best team for a while, but it doesn't mean it was better than the opposition unfortunately. I don't think there was much to choose between ourselves and Arsenal's first XI (although Arsenal's squad was far better and in RvP they had a player better than anything we had at the time) but Man Utd, Man City & Chelsea were significantly better than ours.

What still bemuses me those most about the whole era is that we hired AVB as the next Manager. Chelsea won the Champion's League through a lot of good fortune BUT I still maintain that Chelsea squad was the best in the Premiership that year (their first XI and squad was far superior to ours) and should have won the league. Instead they had a disaster of a season so what do we go and do? Hire the Manager responsible for it.

 

[Sevens]

We didn't actually, we could have played Bale right and given Peinaar a run in his favoured LM position. Instead, Harry in his infinite wisdom preferred to play Modric on the left with Palacios in the middle...

We did often play Bale right and Redknapp got slaughtered for it. Pienaar was injured.

 

[Sevens]

It was shorthand. If we'd have qualified the next two years, as we should have, that would have given us another two years CL revenue, that would have denied Arsenal CL revenue. That's 80m in our coffers (2 seasons) , that money and the allure of CL football means you can attract and pay for better quality footballers who choose you over a club who can't offers that and must now also budget differently themselves. That hopefully - which is how it's worked for others and against us for the last umpteen years - helps you maintain strong CL qualification prospects.

In other words, the longer you can stay in it, the better your chances of maintaining that qualification. Because each season you do, you're effecting 80m (+40 us -40 them) swing in finances and also having the kudos that of CL carrot when negotiating. It's where players want to be.

Indeed. But our first XI wasn't really top four material, even when we did finish top four twice. So it desperately needed strengthening but the purse strings simply weren't released. Probably due to increased wages triggered from performance clauses.

 

[Sevens]

I disagree with the OP. We had a great team but Man U, Chelsea and arguably City and Arsenal had better or just as good squads. And lots more money. If everyone had played their best that season, we'd still have been fighting for 4th. If we underachieved in parts then we overachieved winning 10 in a row or whatever it was.

People blame Harry for this and that's up to them but I prefer to remember that team actually gave us the best football we've seen for nearly 25 years at the Lane. Yes of course there were periods of rubbish within this tenure but that's no different to any tenure for any team unless you were Utd or Chelsea etc. The 'best football in 25 years' comment is undeniable fact whereas 'not cementing our place in CL for years to come because of our bad end to the season' is just guesswork. As hugely disappointing as the ending to those seasons were, I still look back fondly on the time as a whole because it was the last set of times I really enjoyed going to the Lane.

Unfortunately the Redknapp era caused a division among Spurs fans that I have never seen before. It basically boiled down to those that didn't want him just couldn't find it in themselves to give him any credit. At their best they'd keep quiet when things were going well and then come out in force when we had a bad result with the usual tripe of "He has taken us as far as he can..." etc. etc. As time goes on the revisionism towards that era by the anti-Redknapp section of our support is actually mind boggling. There is one well known Spurs forum that has turned into a complete farce because of it and is a ghost of the forum it once was.

Love him or loathe him (and personally I full into the neither camp) we played some great football under Redknapp and got some great results. I'll always be grateful for that. I also believe he left us with a much stronger first XI and squad to the one he inherited so I am grateful for that too. Regardless of why he got fired all the new manager needed to do was provide some evolution to the existing squad. Instead we brought in a Manager who decided to start with a revolution instead.

 

[Sevens]

Looking back on the team that got us 4th in 2010, you can really appreciate what Harry achieved.

We lost BAE and a raw Bale came in. We'd lost Modric to a broken leg and Kranjcar played out of his skin, Palacios and Huddlestone were the mainstays in centre mid, Bentley even played great when Lennon "done a groin".

People look back fondly at the Bale/Modric/VDV trio and rightly so, but the team that got us to the promised land was far from mouth watering in terms of personnel on paper.

Absolutely this. The signing of Parker was also inspired. It was a signing I didn't agree with at the time but the Parker/Modric partnership, with the two wingers either side, was absolutely outstanding with regards to ball retention.

 

[sunnydelight786]

Unfortunately the Redknapp era caused a division among Spurs fans that I have never seen before. It basically boiled down to those that didn't want him just couldn't find it in themselves to give him any credit. At their best they'd keep quiet when things were going well and then come out in force when we had a bad result with the usual tripe of "He has taken us as far as he can..." etc. etc. As time goes on the revisionism towards that era by the anti-Redknapp section of our support is actually mind boggling. There is one well known Spurs forum that has turned into a complete farce because of it and is a ghost of the forum it once was.

Love him or loathe him (and personally I full into the neither camp) we played some great football under Redknapp and got some great results. I'll always be grateful for that. I also believe he left us with a much stronger first XI and squad to the one he inherited so I am grateful for that too. Regardless of why he got fired all the new manager needed to do was provide some evolution to the existing squad. Instead we brought in a Manager who decided to start with a revolution instead.

Surely the revolution was inevitable with both Modric and Bale forcing moves, Gallas and Friedel being past it, King retiring, Ade reverting back to type, Defoe being Defoe, ditto Lennon, BAE being a accident waiting to happen everytime he played, etc.......

 

[Sevens]

Surely the revolution was inevitable with both Modric and Bale forcing moves, Gallas and Friedel being past it, King retiring, Ade reverting back to type, Defoe being Defoe, ditto Lennon, BAE being a accident waiting to happen everytime he played, etc.......

I don't think the revolution was inevitable. It is very hard to replace great players but Bale was still there remember. VDV was still there (it was AVB that didn't want him and rightfully so because VDV didn't fit into the system AVB wanted to play. Whether AVB should have even started with that system is what is up for debate. I think letting VDV go was a colossal mistake when we had also just lost Modric).

We lost King (who hadn't played that much anyway), we lost Modric. We brought in Vertonghen and Dembele. Neither are as good as the players they were replacing, but they were pretty good replacements in keeping consistency with the formation and style that we had been playing. I also don't believe Friedel was "past it" but even if he was we'd just signed Lloris.

As far as I am concerned the season things started to go wrong was 2012/13. But now we have Poch, who wants to play the same system as AVB, maybe we'll finally get the continuity we require. One day we may even look back on the 2012/13 season fondly as the defining season where it all started. I can't personally see it myself but stranger things have happened. When Redknapp took over from Ramos how many people genuinely would believe that we'd finish top four the following season or finish 4th twice in three seasons? No reason why we can't do that again. We just need to show a lot more savvy and guts in the transfer market.

 

[shelfboy68]

I don't think the revolution was inevitable. It is very hard to replace great players but Bale was still there remember. VDV was still there (it was AVB that didn't want him and rightfully so because VDV didn't fit into the system AVB wanted to play. Whether AVB should have even started with that system is what is up for debate. I think letting VDV go was a colossal mistake when we had also just lost Modric).

We lost King (who hadn't played that much anyway), we lost Modric. We brought in Vertonghen and Dembele. Neither are as good as the players they were replacing, but they were pretty good replacements in keeping consistency with the formation and style that we had been playing. I also don't believe Friedel was "past it" but even if he was we'd just signed Lloris.

As far as I am concerned the season things started to go wrong was 2012/13. But now we have Poch, who wants to play the same system as AVB, maybe we'll finally get the continuity we require. One day we may even look back on the 2012/13 season fondly as the defining season where it all started. I can't personally see it myself but stranger things have happened. When Redknapp took over from Ramos how many people genuinely would believe that we'd finish top four the following season or finish 4th twice in three seasons? No reason why we can't do that again. We just need to show a lot more savvy and guts in the transfer market.

We dont have any guts in the transfer market Our deals are low risk and even lower price thats what we go for which is why we end up falling short.
The situation wont change anytime soon so its a case of sucking it up and suffering with whats at hand and see what or if poch can do anything of note.

 

[sunnydelight786]

I don't think the revolution was inevitable. It is very hard to replace great players but Bale was still there remember. VDV was still there (it was AVB that didn't want him and rightfully so because VDV didn't fit into the system AVB wanted to play. Whether AVB should have even started with that system is what is up for debate. I think letting VDV go was a colossal mistake when we had also just lost Modric).

We lost King (who hadn't played that much anyway), we lost Modric. We brought in Vertonghen and Dembele. Neither are as good as the players they were replacing, but they were pretty good replacements in keeping consistency with the formation and style that we had been playing. I also don't believe Friedel was "past it" but even if he was we'd just signed Lloris.

As far as I am concerned the season things started to go wrong was 2012/13. But now we have Poch, who wants to play the same system as AVB, maybe we'll finally get the continuity we require. One day we may even look back on the 2012/13 season fondly as the defining season where it all started. I can't personally see it myself but stranger things have happened. When Redknapp took over from Ramos how many people genuinely would believe that we'd finish top four the following season or finish 4th twice in three seasons? No reason why we can't do that again. We just need to show a lot more savvy and guts in the transfer market.

Brad was a stop gap signing and his dithering on his line had cost us many times. AVB wanted Moutinho as his Modric replacement but ended up with Dembele, a completely different type of midfielder. Vert showed in his first season with us that he was more than a good enough replacement for King, sadly his partners are average at best hence imho have affected his performances. VDV has been a pale shadow of himself at Hamburg and keen followers of the Bundesliga will vouch me for that. Parker by his second season for us was making crop circles in the middle of the park and I strongly believe if we hadn't lost Sandro at QPR away we would have gone on to get 4th. That is no slant on Parker but the sands of time had caught up with him by then.

In short what I'm trying to say is the changes that were made were needed to be made. Lets put it another way, how many of the 2011-12 team should still be in our first eleven right now that we sold willingly? Bale and Modric forced their moves remember.....

 

[Sevens]

Brad was a stop gap signing and his dithering on his line had cost us many times. AVB wanted Moutinho as his Modric replacement but ended up with Dembele, a completely different type of midfielder. Vert showed in his first season with us that he was more than a good enough replacement for King, sadly his partners are average at best hence imho have affected his performances. VDV has been a pale shadow of himself at Hamburg and keen followers of the Bundesliga will vouch me for that. Parker by his second season for us was making crop circles in the middle of the park and I strongly believe if we hadn't lost Sandro at QPR away we would have gone on to get 4th. That is no slant on Parker but the sands of time had caught up with him by then.

In short what I'm trying to say is the changes that were made were needed to be made. Lets put it another way, how many of the 2011-12 team should still be in our first eleven right now that we sold willingly? Bale and Modric forced their moves remember.....

I also recall Friedel saving us many times too. I noticed back from the Hoddle days that there is a severe ageist attitude by many Spurs fans, but Friedel was a great keeper for us. I'd love for you to highlight some of the many times he cost us. If he cost us many times it can't be too hard for you to remember.

Moutinho is nothing like Modric. Dembele is more like Modric. Moutinho is more of a passer than a player who can receive the ball under pressure, drop a shoulder and then advance with the ball at his feet. And I've had this argument before about AVB. If it all hinged on the signing of one player then I am definitely glad he is gone as our manager.

It is common for sides not in the top couple of teams in the country to go through quite significant personnel changes. AVB revolutionised and therefore sold players I personally wouldn't have. Poch has also done the same already. I don't believe we should have sold Huddlestone (and this is coming from someone who was never much of a fan), Dawson or Sandro for example. Huddlestone is better than any current central midfielder we have in my opinion. Sandro is a better defensive midfielder than any we have. Dawson is a better defensive centre half than anything we have (to be fair haven't seen a lot of Fazio so may be a harsh judgement). Dawson is definitely a lot better than Kaboul from what I've seen.

It doesn't matter now anyway. Redknapp has gone and we've generated enough cash and signed enough players to ensure that current success or failure isn't connected to his tenure at all.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Brad was a stop gap signing and his dithering on his line had cost us many times. AVB wanted Moutinho as his Modric replacement but ended up with Dembele, a completely different type of midfielder. Vert showed in his first season with us that he was more than a good enough replacement for King, sadly his partners are average at best hence imho have affected his performances. VDV has been a pale shadow of himself at Hamburg and keen followers of the Bundesliga will vouch me for that. Parker by his second season for us was making crop circles in the middle of the park and I strongly believe if we hadn't lost Sandro at QPR away we would have gone on to get 4th. That is no slant on Parker but the sands of time had caught up with him by then.

In short what I'm trying to say is the changes that were made were needed to be made. Lets put it another way, how many of the 2011-12 team should still be in our first eleven right now that we sold willingly? Bale and Modric forced their moves remember.....

Bale didn't force anything, Levy's eyes lit up with the £80m coming in and spent the close season spending it.

Totally disagree about Vertonghen as well, he's just one of the 'in' crew that people have always wanted to be better than he is, he's as many half arsed games for us as he's had worldies. Not even in King's league mate.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

It is common for sides not in the top couple of teams in the country to go through quite significant personnel changes. AVB revolutionised and therefore sold players I personally wouldn't have. Poch has also done the same already. I don't believe we should have sold Huddlestone (and this is coming from someone who was never much of a fan), Dawson or Sandro for example. Huddlestone is better than any current central midfielder we have in my opinion. Sandro is a better defensive midfielder than any we have. Dawson is a better defensive centre half than anything we have (to be fair haven't seen a lot of Fazio so may be a harsh judgement). Dawson is definitely a lot better than Kaboul from what I've seen.

It doesn't matter now anyway. Redknapp has gone and we've generated enough cash and signed enough players to ensure that current success or failure isn't connected to his tenure at all.

I've agreed with a lot of things you have said in this thread, and have run out of energy/patience/hair arguing the same things over the last few years.

However, all that aside sunny jim, I hate you for the sentence in bold.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

I also recall Friedel saving us many times too. I noticed back from the Hoddle days that there is a severe ageist attitude by many Spurs fans, but Friedel was a great keeper for us. I'd love for you to highlight some of the many times he cost us. If he cost us many times it can't be too hard for you to remember.

Moutinho is nothing like Modric. Dembele is more like Modric. Moutinho is more of a passer than a player who can receive the ball under pressure, drop a shoulder and then advance with the ball at his feet. And I've had this argument before about AVB. If it all hinged on the signing of one player then I am definitely glad he is gone as our manager.

It is common for sides not in the top couple of teams in the country to go through quite significant personnel changes. AVB revolutionised and therefore sold players I personally wouldn't have. Poch has also done the same already. I don't believe we should have sold Huddlestone (and this is coming from someone who was never much of a fan), Dawson or Sandro for example. Huddlestone is better than any current central midfielder we have in my opinion. Sandro is a better defensive midfielder than any we have. Dawson is a better defensive centre half than anything we have (to be fair haven't seen a lot of Fazio so may be a harsh judgement). Dawson is definitely a lot better than Kaboul from what I've seen.

It doesn't matter now anyway. Redknapp has gone and we've generated enough cash and signed enough players to ensure that current success or failure isn't connected to his tenure at all.

With all due respect, most of what you said is all wrong IMO...

 

[Sevens]

With all due respect, most of what you said is all wrong IMO...

Such as?