Bitterness for Sherwood

[Sevens]

I don't think you have a poisonous opinion now, I think you had a poisonous opinion back then during AVB's last few weeks in charge with us and you have now admitted they weren't even based on any real evidence.

Anyone spreading doubts and fears among the fan base about a coach who's doing just fine and who still has a reasonable chance of achieving success with the team is being poisonous for the whole organization. I have seen first hand many times now how fans' stupid and baseless opinions have snowballed to the point of creating negative atmospheres among the fan base and stadium to the point of getting promising coaches sacked and potentially great projects terminated.

Now, Im not saying your opinion was stupid, but it certainly was baseless (as you admitted yourself). So if you have a problem with me calling your attitude back then for what it was, then you will just have to suck it up I guess.

I think all the problems Pochetino is experiencing this season is proof enough that AVB wasn't the problem back then, in fact, it looks like he was actually doing quite a good job and was in fact overachieving with this team. I don't think Pochetino is necessarily worse than AVB, but I do think by sacking AVB we have regressed a couple of years back and it will take some time for Poch to catch up (if Levy, the fans and the media even let him, that is).

He was certainly doing a good job for insomniacs.......

 

[eddiebailey]

As for Levy himself, it's clear he isn't very good at handling egos or eccentricities in his Managers. Which means he is going to be waiting a long time to find his perfect Manager......

Daniel knew Tim well before he appointed him, so he had some idea what he was getting. Likewise on a personal level Levy seems to have got on well with Jol and Redknapp. AVB is the only manager he seems to have had a real problem working with.

I suspect the problem is more Uncle Joe trying to run things from his yacht in the Bahamas.

 

[Metalhead]

Daniel knew Tim well before he appointed him, so he had some idea what he was getting. Likewise on a personal level Levy seems to have got on well with Jol and Redknapp. AVB is the only manager he seems to have had a real problem working with.

I suspect the problem is more Uncle Joe trying to run things from his yacht in the Bahamas.

The difficulty is the ambiguity about quite how much involvement Joe Lewis does actually have with the day to day running of the club. A lot of it is rumour and hearsay.

 

[Sevens]

Daniel knew Tim well before he appointed him, so he had some idea what he was getting. Likewise on a personal level Levy seems to have got on well with Jol and Redknapp. AVB is the only manager he seems to have had a real problem working with.

I suspect the problem is more Uncle Joe trying to run things from his yacht in the Bahamas.

Unfortunately that isn't true. As soon as you disagree with something Levy wants to do your days are numbered. It's just a matter of time. We've seen it with the way Hoddle, Pleat, Jol etc. were treated.

 

[Chris12]

The man has no humility, that's is why he isn't liked by quite a few fans. He did well and also his future for the team would've lead to some good young players leaving for older experienced ones.

 

[eddiebailey]

Unfortunately that isn't true. As soon as you disagree with something Levy wants to do your days are numbered. It's just a matter of time. We've seen it with the way Hoddle, Pleat, Jol etc. were treated.

Yet none of those seem to entertain any personal animosity towards Levy himself.

 

[whitesocks]

TS still lives in an era when you just rolled a ball out there, and the team that wants it more wins. That era is gone - at least for ambitious teams. No doubt that you need to have players willing to get bloody on the pitch, but you need the requisite skill and discipline to win at the upper levels in this league. Tim, and many of his supporters, do not get that.

That is a fair point, but as TS proved, you can be very competitive with a 'we'll score more than you approach' and certainly entertaining. This was pretty much HR's approach too and that got us in the CL.
I'd go as far as saying that this strategy has shown tottenham at their best since 61.
Not winning much, but the opponents will know they've been in a game.
We will try to score at all costs. Not because it is effective but it is good fun.

I'll never adjust to the AVB style - I'm not going to be impressed by pointless possession.
And although it would make a nice change to finish above arsenal and even win some trophies,
I'd rather we did not become one of them to do it. We are better than this.

Having said that, some genius tactics would be a nice addition.
I really though we might have that when I thought MP had told Dier [edit] to mix it up front against West Ham. It was either management genius or Dier just had a rush of blood and got lost.
Unfortunately it is pretty clear now he just got lost.

 

[Mr Pink]

I don't think you have a poisonous opinion now, I think you had a poisonous opinion back then during AVB's last few weeks in charge with us and you have now admitted they weren't even based on any real evidence.

Anyone spreading doubts and fears among the fan base about a coach who's doing just fine and who still has a reasonable chance of achieving success with the team is being poisonous for the whole organization. I have seen first hand many times now how fans' stupid and baseless opinions have snowballed to the point of creating negative atmospheres among the fan base and stadium to the point of getting promising coaches sacked and potentially great projects terminated.

Now, Im not saying your opinion was stupid, but it certainly was baseless (as you admitted yourself). So if you have a problem with me calling your attitude back then for what it was, then you will just have to suck it up I guess.

I think all the problems Pochetino is experiencing this season is proof enough that AVB wasn't the problem back then, in fact, it looks like he was actually doing quite a good job and was in fact overachieving with this team. I don't think Pochetino is necessarily worse than AVB, but I do think by sacking AVB we have regressed a couple of years back and it will take some time for Poch to catch up (if Levy, the fans and the media even let him, that is).

I have no problem with it whatsoever, I'm not too bothered either way what you think lol.

I can't take you seriously, your post really made me laugh

 

[Sevens]

Yet none of those seem to entertain any personal animosity towards Levy himself.

Not publically at least and for good financial reasons. But privately I know for a 100% fact that one of the ex-manager's views are 180 degrees away from what they say publically about Levy. And, if that same manager is to be believed, at least one of the other manager feels the same.

 

[prawnsandwich]

TS proved you can be very competitive with a 'we'll score more than you approach' and certainly entertaining.
We will try to score at all costs. Not because it is effective but it is good fun.
I'll never adjust to the AVB style - I'm not going to be impressed by pointless possession.
Having said that, some genius tactics would be a nice addition.
I really though we might have that when I thought MP had told Dyer to mix it up front against West Ham. It was either management genius or Dyer just had a rush of blood and got lost.
Unfortunately it is pretty clear now he just got lost.

Cracking post!!

 

[ultimateloner]

I still don't get the fuss with Sherwood.
We got top 6. Around what is expected given where he took over from AVB.
I think he did enough to keep his job. Trouble is Poch looked a better bet. So he goes.

 

[stemark44]

I still don't get the fuss with Sherwood.
We got top 6. Around what is expected given where he took over from AVB.
I think he did enough to keep his job. Trouble is Poch looked a better bet. So he goes.

A few years ago when Carlo Ancelloti was sacked by Chelsea (May 2011) I suggested (to plenty of derision) that we should sack Redknapp who had finished 5th that season and replace him with Ancelloti.
Even though Harry had done a pretty good job at Spurs I felt that it would be a missed opportunity to not bring in a proven World class manager.
So,of course, I can understand the reasons in replacing a man,doing a pretty good job,with another one with a far better record in management.
However that simply didn't happen in this case and I really don't see any well thought out strategy in his appointment.

 

[ultimateloner]

A few years ago when Carlo Ancelloti was sacked by Chelsea (May 2011) I suggested (to plenty of derision) that we should sack Redknapp who had finished 5th that season and replace him with Ancelloti.
Even though Harry had done a pretty good job at Spurs I felt that it would be a missed opportunity to not bring in a proven World class manager.
So,of course, I can understand the reasons in replacing a man,doing a pretty good job,with another one with a far better record in management.
However that simply didn't happen in this case and I really don't see any well thought out strategy in his appointment.

Maybe because Anchelotti won't come. Otherwise no brainer.

 

[stemark44]

Maybe because Anchelotti won't come. Otherwise no brainer.

No, at the time it was reported that he wanted to stay in London,the opportunity was pretty real.

 

[stevenurse]

That is a fair point, but as TS proved, you can be very competitive with a 'we'll score more than you approach' and certainly entertaining. This was pretty much HR's approach too and that got us in the CL.
I'd go as far as saying that this strategy has shown tottenham at their best since 61.
Not winning much, but the opponents will know they've been in a game.
We will try to score at all costs. Not because it is effective but it is good fun.

I'll never adjust to the AVB style - I'm not going to be impressed by pointless possession.
And although it would make a nice change to finish above arsenal and even win some trophies,
I'd rather we did not become one of them to do it. We are better than this.

Having said that, some genius tactics would be a nice addition.
I really though we might have that when I thought MP had told Dyer to mix it up front against West Ham. It was either management genius or Dyer just had a rush of blood and got lost.
Unfortunately it is pretty clear now he just got lost.

I'm really sorry and don't wanna be THAT guy, but it's Dier.

 

[whitesocks]

I'm really sorry and don't wanna be THAT guy, but it's Dier.

Apologies.
What did you think of the rest of the post?

 

[FinnYid]

And yet we still were winning games. That's why I won't accept that argument, you just told us how strategies are only means to get the results, and AVB's strategy at the time meant we wouldn't get to score much, but we still would be getting wins at a decent enough rate. Therefor you yourself made your own argument invalid.

Still winning games? Barely, as shown the last 11 PL games of AVB were merely 1 point better than how we are doing now and how we are doing now is one of the worst starts by any manager at Spurs. So 15 in 11 with goal difference of -10 may have been decent enough for you, but Sherwood didn't have it nearly as bad at PL in any point of his short tenure. So there is a valid point by results even if some try to paint white black and won't accept the actual results. You can hate the guy all you want and love AVB all you want, but you can't change the numbers.

 

[Kendall]

Apologies.
What did you think of the rest of the post?

it was dire.

 

[looklikemodric]

people have no idea how good sherwood was for our club. he wasnt an old boy clutching a job like dennis wise this was a guy that got a lucky break learnt the ropes and did the best he can for our club with very good results.

the youth setup is almost single handedly down to tim. credit must go to inglethorpe too of course.

think what you like about the man but he had a right to call out the players when we perfomed bad and he had the right to be arrogant. he was a premier league winning captain at a young age. he captained hendry, flowers this man was a leader.

big loss to the club in back office roles but in terms of a head coaches i think he has a lot to learn and that probably should be at a lower premier league club or championship club.

 

[SFCS]

The reason people don't like Sherwood is because he's a bitter, lying snake. He also relied havily on Ramsay and Ferdinand to coach on the training ground. All he's done since he left is confirm that we were right to sack him.

When it was going well he takes the credit away. Think Dier "that was Ramsay's idea to sign him", Chadli "I always knew he'd score once he was settled even though I tried to loan him ouit to Swansea" and Eriksen(whilst Tim was still in charge) "I scouted him when he was 17 in a non-existent game at Wembley".

When it's going badly it's snide comments and negativity. Over the past few months I've heard him say "that's what the Spurs fans are going to have to get used to under Pochettino, sitting deep and counterattacking", "Soldado didn't get in my team because Kane trained better" and of course "I bet they wish they had my win percentage now". On the first point, I think we all know how laughable it is but that's what he said at half time(I think) in the Forest game. On the second, coming from the man who thought Fryers was an exceptional talent, from what he saw in training, and had to have Ramsay hold his hand to lead him through training I don't think he can really talk. Not to mention the fact that what he's saying could form division in the squad. On the third point, well we've actually won a couple of cup games which is already better than he managed. Would we take his league record now? Sure, we'd also take AVB's too as we had 20 points at this stage last year. Whether they'd actually have achieved the same this season is of course a major doubt, lots of lower clubs are benefitting from the extra TV money they've had to spend(which we haven't,for whatever reason), the teams we'd hope to be around come the end of the season(Arsenal, United, Liverpool, Everton) are all struggling too and of course Southampton are currently making everyone look bad.

It's total luck for Pochettino that the merry-go-round stops with him but that's just the way it is. Every manager gets luck, Sherwood got lucky to even get the job in the first place as none of the candidates we wanted were available at the time. Get over it and stop going on about Sherwood like he isn't a horrible, small man that no one wanted to play for except Adebayor and some under 21s he promoted.