Are we making excuses?

[dudu]

I actually didn't even know that our pitch was considered small. I knew that QPR, Fulham and Stoke had small pitches but until now I didn't know ours was tbh.

me too, i thought the whole small pitch thing was a myth and that all pitches had to be a certain size..... lets ask google.

 

[dudu]

me too, i thought the whole small pitch thing was a myth and that all pitches had to be a certain size..... lets ask google.

Yup, i know nothing


Here are the top 20 pitches ranked in order of size. The large number after the size of the pitch is calculated by multiplying the length and width of the pitch (in yards):

1. Manchester City, City of Manchester Stadium, 116 x 77 yards, 8932
2. Manchester United, Old Trafford, 116 x 76 yards, 8816
3. Blackburn Rovers, Ewood Park, 115 x 76 yards, 8740
4. Everton, Goodison Park, 112 x 78 yards, 8736
5. Aston Villa, Villa Park, 114 x 75 yards, 8550
6. Middlesbrough, Riverside, 114 x 75 yards, 8550
7. Arsenal, Emirates Stadium, 114 x 74 yards, 8436
8. Derby County, Pride Park, 114 x 74 yards, 8436
9. Reading, Madjeski Stadium, 111 x 76 yards, 8436
10. Sunderland, Stadium of Light, 114 x 74 yards, 8436
11. Wigan Athletic, JJB Stadium, 114 x 74 yards, 8436
12. Portsmouth, Fratton Park, 115 x 73 yards, 8395
13. Chelsea, Stamford Bridge, 110 x 75 yards, 8250
14. Fulham, Craven Cottage, 110 x 75 yards, 8250
15. Liverpool, Anfield, 110 x 75 yards, 8250
16. Birmingham City, St. Andrews, 110 x 74 yards, 8140
17. Newcastle United, St. James’s Park, 110 x 73 yards, 8030
18. Tottenham Hotspur, White Hart Lane, 110 x 73 yards, 8030
19. Bolton Wanderers, Reebok Stadium, 110 x 72 yards, 7920
20. West Ham United, Boleyn Ground, 110 x 70 yards, 7700

Interesting facts:

 

[Gb160]

me too, i thought the whole small pitch thing was a myth and that all pitches had to be a certain size..... lets ask google.

They have to be within certain limits....leading to bigger and smaller pitches.
I'm pretty sure Wembley is one of the biggest pitches there are.

Interesting to see that West Hams is 8 yards narrower than Evertons....that's quite a difference when you think about it.

 

[Donki]

Were there this many negative threads when the team was the consistently mediocre?

Nope 10 years of shit, Francis, Gross, Graham etc. Sinton, Howells, Dozzell, Austin etc I never moaned once. No expectation back then, it was expected that we were nothign more than a cup team. Its funny how it was Harry, loathed by so many, gave us this expectation that we can and should be competing.

 

[dagraham]

me too, i thought the whole small pitch thing was a myth and that all pitches had to be a certain size..... lets ask google.

Not all pitches are the same but they have to be within certain parameters. The old Wembley was always famous for being a big pitch and the Nou Camp is also on the large side.

The idea though that you can only play attractive, exciting football on a large pitch is a fallacy. As I said in my OP and as much as it pains me to say it, Highbury was always one of the smaller pitches and the football Wenger had them playing was not too shabby.

 

[Bobbins]

The Yid argument and the claim that shite football is making people stop singing are both total bollocks IMO.

I remember being 0-2 to Seville in the UEFA Cup under Jol and hearing 'Martin Jol's Blue and White Army' being sung, non-stop, at incredible volume, for almost the entire second half. The noise was incredible and inspired the team to fight hard to almost make a comeback.

Our football under Jol wasn't particularly great, and we frankly weren't chanting Yids as much back then - it was just that we had far less sense of entitlement, and a hell of a lot less plastics following us. For most supporters in their then-mid-20's like me, the period back then was incredibly exciting because we finally weren't actually shite, and could actually expect to win some games, and win them well. We had inspirational players like Keane at his best, Davids, Berbatov. We also had a very large number of English players which generally helps the fans feel much closer to the team. Everything was frankly brilliant for a few years probably culminating in the winning of the League Cup under Ramos. Things picked up again under Redknapp when some of our football was fantastic to watch, and again we had players like VDV and Modric to amaze and inspire us.

Unfortunately, when I went to West Ham, I was surrounded by foreigners, people who were clearly at the Lane for the first time, and moaning old season ticket-owning gits who spent the entire game sighing and grumbling.

The problem's not the Yid thing, it's not the pitch, it's not the quality of football. It's the sense of entitlement the fans now have and the huge amount of season tickets which are being re-sold to randoms (sometimes like me, yay!) who frankly have no interest in supporting the team. It's also the fact that now Bale's gone we really have no 'stand-out' stars to inspire the crowd and do something special (Townsend is becoming this). We've got a great squad full of brilliant players, but slightly perversly they're almost all pretty much as good as each other.

I don't think the club is making excuses so much as just expressing some frustration. I think the team feel like they are good enough to smash some of their opposition but are getting annoyed at teams sitting back and just soaking up the punishment. I'm sure they can't wait to play the likes of United or City so they can actually play a proper game of football.

My hope is that the club does away with this StubHub thing (they won't) and the team continues to gel together and we get some heavy-scoring victories our way soon, as otherwise this stale and aggressive tension is only going to get worse.

 

[wozzahotspurs]

I think its just as pathetic if the only way we can vocally support the team is by chanting "Yid Army". Doesn't say much for our amazing fan base (who are desperately trying to triumph over the so called moaning brigade apparently) if that's all they've got.

tbf i never said it was our only chant/song but a few of ours do have the word in it.

I dont think its the sole cause at all because the Atmosphere has been garbage the last 3 seasons if you ask me. last decent one i remember was the Inter Game.

 

[SteveH]

Would you accept louder fans if it meant increased motivation and performance from the players?

Both parties sound complicit in the situation. AVB has done the right thing in airing it. Kills two birds etc.........

 

[Spurs1960]

T



Dembele's comments are a little odd..... i just dont see the point in making it!

And i dont think AVB was making excuses, more of an observation and request. I didnt hear it so much as "we arent playing well because of the fans" more that "if we are struggling, get behind us and be the extra man we need"

Must be all designed to get us used to a bigger pitch and ground sharing with American fotball so we have to sit further away from the action.

It'll be the quality of the food is distracting the fans from signing next so we can change the caterers.

 

[IGSpur]

This is crazy. Making excuses? we're 4th. Bar losing to Arsenal at their place by only 1 goal we would be joint top of the table.

I was at the Hull match and could feel the anxiety in the place as people waited for us to score. Our heads our so far up our own arse its incredible.

Dembele is making an excuse to try and appease impatient fans. Last year he said that it was hard to motivate themselves as a result to losing against a lesser team. That was making an excuse. We've just beaten another team and he has to come out with this smh. I am genuinely worried what will happen when we lose some games.

Also, I remember in the 'what our opponents are saying' thread Noriwch, Cardiff and at least one other teams fans all raved about how good our football was and that it was the best they had seen. Also the first half against Chelsea we played really good football, so thats at least 3 out of the 8 league games. Our rivals arent playing great football every match and we have a team that's not even gelled yet.

Genuine question as I know how much some people hate Europa. Would people prefer to finish 4th playing like we are or finish 5th playing swashbuckling football?

 

[guiltyparty]

Yup, i know nothing


Here are the top 20 pitches ranked in order of size. The large number after the size of the pitch is calculated by multiplying the length and width of the pitch (in yards):

1. Manchester City, City of Manchester Stadium, 116 x 77 yards, 8932
2. Manchester United, Old Trafford, 116 x 76 yards, 8816
3. Blackburn Rovers, Ewood Park, 115 x 76 yards, 8740
4. Everton, Goodison Park, 112 x 78 yards, 8736
5. Aston Villa, Villa Park, 114 x 75 yards, 8550
6. Middlesbrough, Riverside, 114 x 75 yards, 8550
7. Arsenal, Emirates Stadium, 114 x 74 yards, 8436
8. Derby County, Pride Park, 114 x 74 yards, 8436
9. Reading, Madjeski Stadium, 111 x 76 yards, 8436
10. Sunderland, Stadium of Light, 114 x 74 yards, 8436
11. Wigan Athletic, JJB Stadium, 114 x 74 yards, 8436
12. Portsmouth, Fratton Park, 115 x 73 yards, 8395
13. Chelsea, Stamford Bridge, 110 x 75 yards, 8250
14. Fulham, Craven Cottage, 110 x 75 yards, 8250
15. Liverpool, Anfield, 110 x 75 yards, 8250
16. Birmingham City, St. Andrews, 110 x 74 yards, 8140
17. Newcastle United, St. James’s Park, 110 x 73 yards, 8030
18. Tottenham Hotspur, White Hart Lane, 110 x 73 yards, 8030
19. Bolton Wanderers, Reebok Stadium, 110 x 72 yards, 7920
20. West Ham United, Boleyn Ground, 110 x 70 yards, 7700

Interesting facts:

So City and Utd should really struggle playing at the Lane then, right? Being as they have much, much bigger pitches and we play on a much, much smaller one every other week?

 

[CowInAComa]

If we go a goal behind in a game, it'll be game over, we couldnt score 2 in a game against a team defending deep. Probably another cause for the anxiety.

 

[CowInAComa]

This is crazy. Making excuses? we're 4th. Bar losing to Arsenal at their place by only 1 goal we would be joint top of the table.

I was at the Hull match and could feel the anxiety in the place as people waited for us to score. Our heads our so far up our own arse its incredible.

Dembele is making an excuse to try and appease impatient fans. Last year he said that it was hard to motivate themselves as a result to losing against a lesser team. That was making an excuse. We've just beaten another team and he has to come out with this smh. I am genuinely worried what will happen when we lose some games.

Also, I remember in the 'what our opponents are saying' thread Noriwch, Cardiff and at least one other teams fans all raved about how good our football was and that it was the best they had seen. Also the first half against Chelsea we played really good football, so thats at least 3 out of the 8 league games. Our rivals arent playing great football every match and we have a team that's not even gelled yet.

Genuine question as I know how much some people hate Europa. Would people prefer to finish 4th playing like we are or finish 5th playing swashbuckling football?

They are the 2 choices every side must face. Thats why the champions league is full of such dreadful boring sides.

 

[CowInAComa]

Both parties sound complicit in the situation. AVB has done the right thing in airing it. Kills two birds etc.........

He has done the right thing, at least I think... unless we go on a dodgy run of games now, then it could get ugly.

 

[shelfboy68]

I'll probably be told to f*** off and support Man Utd or something, which seems the usual response these days to anything remotely negative but here goes.

Following on from AVB suggesting that the fans are to blame for the poor performances of late, we now have Dembele coming out and suggesting that our pitch is too small and its not fair that the opposition comes to WHL to defend :

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...art-lane-pitch-for-lack-of-goals-8908242.html

Whilst the statements about the atmosphere, opposition and pitch are not factually incorrect, it smacks to me of just making excuses.

The opposition has every right to make it difficult for us and we can't expect them to go full out to attack us and risk a pasting. Its not a new thing either, its been going on for a number of years now an we still seem unable to come up with an answer.

As for the pitch, it may be small but again, it hasn't changed so why do we seem suddenly surprised by it? A certain club from up the road famously had one of the smallest pitches in the league before they moved. Rather than offering it up as an excuse, they turned it to their advantage.

I'm not going to open up the fan debate as its already being discussed in another thread but other successful clubs have had their share of problems with the "prawn sandwich" element but you don't see them offering it up as an excuse for lame performances. They may have remarked on it but have said that it comes with the territory of playing for a club with high standards.

I'm just getting the feeling that the manager and players are almost adopting a losers mentality and getting their excuses in early and losing sight of the real issue, being that for some time we are unable to open up teams in open play. Something needs to change imo and it has to come from AVB and the team on the training ground.

Spot on I made this point after the game its all excuses and bullshit as andre is well paid to find solutions to this problem the fact it's been going on for a while is even worse.

 

[SteveH]

He has done the right thing, at least I think... unless we go on a dodgy run of games now, then it could get ugly.

Most of our fans and for that matter most fans, these days are not 'old school' supporters more "prawn sandwich brigade", this is good because if you look back at the trouble the "old school" used to cause back in the 70/80's, I prefer the smell of prawn and mayo wafting across the the ground (I nearly said 'terraces').

AVB is right to expect support from the home crowd but sadly those days have gone. Other than the big games most fans just want a win and to go home - sad but true in my book.

Football has changed for the better in so many ways but one of the costs is the lack of passion from the crowd.
Dortmund have orchestrated crowd passion and noise and if we want that in the EPL it will need blocks of terracing and fan organisations getting together with the clubs .

COYS

 

[dagraham]

Most of our fans and for that matter most fans, these days are not 'old school' supporters more "prawn sandwich brigade", this is good because if you look back at the trouble the "old school" used to cause back in the 70/80's, I prefer the smell of prawn and mayo wafting across the the ground (I nearly said 'terraces').

AVB is right to expect support from the home crowd but sadly those days have gone. Other than the big games most fans just want a win and to go home - sad but true in my book.

Football has changed for the better in so many ways but one of the costs is the lack of passion from the crowd.
Dortmund have orchestrated crowd passion and noise and if we want that in the EPL it will need blocks of terracing and fan organisations participation with clubs .

COYS

Where do you sit? All I can smell in the Block 28 of the East Lower is B.O. and curry

 

[SteveH]

Where do you sit? All I can smell in the Block 28 of the East Lower is B.O. and curry

Usually at home in front of my telly - but when at WHL, in the wheelchair section which is too bloody low and I see feck all -I end up watching the big screen or as we call it nowadays TV. But thats just me. Fans have changed at the same pace as football has some will say for the worse and some like me for the better.

If fans want a better atmosphere it needs organising.

 

[Spurs1960]

Has out pitch shrunk in the last few of years to suddenly become to small today, I must have missed all those reports.

It amazes me that the management and players didn't realise it was too small and devised tactics that wouldn't suit it.

Obviously this transfer policy of only buying players who need big pitches is having an unforeseen impact, perhaps there is a place for small players after all.

Best bring back Tom Carroll, get Danny Rose fit, play Defoe and Lennon.

Additional measures to consider could include banning any supporter over 5ft 6in so these little guys don't feel intimidated and improve the viewing pleasure for our fans from Lilliput, maximum waist size 40 inches, anything bigger and the person next to them is affected.

No hats rule introduced so the cameras can see who is not chanting and signing, they can then be ejected speedily. Cue cards will be held up to inform the crowd when to cheer, applaud, sing and boo officials.

The players feel this would enhance their playing pleasure immensely.

 

[sweyid]

If fans want a better atmosphere it needs organising.

Agree. That's why 1882 is such an important fan movement.

Hopefully their presence will be felt tonight and WHL will be a cauldron of noise and passion and we'll smash 5 past Hull.