2011/2012 & 2012/2013 - a comparison.

[sweyid]

Don't know if this has been done before or not, but I thought I'd compare our fixtures so far this season with the same fixtures as last season and see if we're doing as bad as it looks. We've played to newly promoted sides, so I've switched them for two relegated sides.

2011/2012:

Man United (A) 3-0 (Loss)
Man City (H) 1-5 (Loss)
Newcastle (A) 2-2 (Draw)

WBA (H) 1-0 (Win)
Norwich (H) 2-1 (Loss)
Arsenal (A) 5-2 (Loss)

Chelsea (H) 1-1 (Draw)
Wigan (H) 3-1 (Win)
QPR (H) 3-1 (Win)

Aston Villa (H) 2-0 (Win)
Wolverhampton (A) 0-2 (Win)*
Blackburn (A) 1-2 (Win)*

Win: 6
Draw: 2
Loss: 4

Games: 12
Points: 20
GD:-1

2012/2013:

Newcastle (A) 2-1 (Loss)
WBA (H) 1-1 (Draw)
Norwich (H) 1-1 (Draw)

Reading (A) 1-3 (Win)*
QPR (H) 2-1 (Win)
Man United (A) 2-3 (Win)

Aston VIlla (H) 2-0 (Win)
Chelsea (H) 2-4 (Loss)
Southampton (A) 1-2 (Win)*

Wigan (H) 0-1 (Loss)
Man City (A) 2-1 (Loss)
Arsenal (A) 5-2 (Loss)

Games: 12
Win: 5
Draw: 2
Loss: 5

Points: 17
GD: -1

So, we're 3 points behind this season compared to the same fixtures last season but standing at the same goal difference. Had we converted the Wigan loss this season into a win we'd be at the same amount of points, wins, draws and losses as last season after the same fixtures. Now, we've been playing less attractive football so far this season and some of our wins have been a bit lucky - QPR for example, but we had some real gritty and lucky wins last season too, Fulham away for example.

We're getting pretty much the same results, but playing less attractive football.

So are we really in crisis or are we comparing our start this season with our start last season (which was, quite frankly, amazing)?

 

[Real_madyidd]

Well last season finished so well that we sacked our manager...

 

[Andy]

excellent idea fella, this shows that without players like VdV, Modric, Parker, BAE, King and Kaboul that we aren't really doing that badly and if you factor in Dembele's injury we are about the same, we even have players coming back over the next few games which could give us a chance to rest Sandro and possibly Vertonghen.
fingers crossed we can get a result this weekend and propel ourselves up towards the top four places.

 

[Glenn_Purvey]

I think it's more to do with the 4 losses on the bounce!!!

If we mean business we needed to beat 1 of the big 4 and smash Wigan and we failed to do either of those.

I hope we go on a run now and pick up maximum points in the next couple of weeks.

Coys

 

[markiespurs]

Personally, I think it's down to our performances, which have been pretty poor all season

 

[sweyid]

If we mean business we needed to beat 1 of the big 4 and smash Wigan and we failed to do either of those.

We beat United. Losing against Wigan was pretty dreadful and getting beaten against Chelsea for the first time in very long (and losing a derby at home) was pretty hurtful, but we're not doing much worse than last season just looking at the results - sure, our football could be more attractive and exciting, but considering the quality we've lost and the quality we've got injured we're actually doing ok.

 

[beats1]

Well last season finished so well that we sacked our manager...

Agree but on the flip side out of those 12 games listed from last season only the arsenal match and Norwich were the bad results from our slump so if we dont have as bad as a slump as last season we should do better

 

[Spurs_Bear]

I don't really see the point in this comparison though? It doesn't take into account the players we have added/lost or indeed the players that the opposition have added/lost, too many variables to take into account for this to be a direct comparison.

I'm most disappointed with our performances over anything else, added to the fact that we haven't seen any improvement in our cohesion, tactics or shape. At all. We made the decision to upgrade by bringing in the new regime, after 12 games I would expect to be seeing better things than what we have seen, injuries aside.

That's where my main problem lies, there has been no improvement, in fact I think it's worse.

 

[wishkah]

Don't know if this has been done before or not, but I thought I'd compare our fixtures so far this season with the same fixtures as last season and see if we're doing as bad as it looks. We've played to newly promoted sides, so I've switched them for two relegated sides.

2011/2012:

Man United (A) 3-0 (Loss)
Man City (H) 1-5 (Loss)
Newcastle (A) 2-2 (Draw)

WBA (H) 1-0 (Win)
Norwich (H) 2-1 (Loss)
Arsenal (A) 5-2 (Loss)

Chelsea (H) 1-1 (Draw)
Wigan (H) 3-1 (Win)
QPR (H) 3-1 (Win)

Aston Villa (H) 2-0 (Win)
Wolverhampton (A) 0-2 (Win)*
Blackburn (A) 1-2 (Win)*

Win: 6
Draw: 2
Loss: 4

Games: 12
Points: 20
GD:-1

2012/2013:

Newcastle (A) 2-1 (Loss)
WBA (H) 1-1 (Draw)
Norwich (H) 1-1 (Draw)

Reading (A) 1-3 (Win)*
QPR (H) 2-1 (Win)
Man United (A) 2-3 (Win)

Aston VIlla (H) 2-0 (Win)
Chelsea (H) 2-4 (Loss)
Southampton (A) 1-2 (Win)*

Wigan (H) 0-1 (Loss)
Man City (A) 2-1 (Loss)
Arsenal (A) 5-2 (Loss)

Games: 12
Win: 5
Draw: 2
Loss: 5

Points: 17
GD: -1

So, we're 3 points behind this season compared to the same fixtures last season but standing at the same goal difference. Had we converted the Wigan loss this season into a win we'd be at the same amount of points, wins, draws and losses as last season after the same fixtures. Now, we've been playing less attractive football so far this season and some of our wins have been a bit lucky - QPR for example, but we had some real gritty and lucky wins last season too, Fulham away for example.

We're getting pretty much the same results, but playing less attractive football.

So are we really in crisis or are we comparing our start this season with our start last season (which was, quite frankly, amazing)?

for me its all about the STYLE. we havn't dominated a game, played with the flair etc that we got used to over the last few seasons. It feels like stoke currently being in the top four compared to Chelsea.

we have looked shite

 

[TEESSIDE1]

Last season we went on an awesome run after the 1st 5 or 6 games. With the current squad (the fit ones) I can't see us matching the run this season which is a major issue, considering that fact that we've yet to string 2 good performances together.

 

[Wiener]

I don't really see the point in this comparison though? It doesn't take into account the players we have added/lost or indeed the players that the opposition have added/lost, too many variables to take into account for this to be a direct comparison.

I'm most disappointed with our performances over anything else, added to the fact that we haven't seen any improvement in our cohesion, tactics or shape. At all. We made the decision to upgrade by bringing in the new regime, after 12 games I would expect to be seeing better things than what we have seen, injuries aside.

That's where my main problem lies, there has been no improvement, in fact I think it's worse.

Every game I have seen we have had phases where we have been very tidy. We have started a number of games well trying to keep possession and pressing when without the ball. The wheels have however come off a number of times in the latter halves of the game. Clearly we are low on confidence, are not having the rub of the green and AVB has work to do. I am nowhere near as negative as you and believe we will get some results in the next few games.

What the comparison does tell us, as does the table, is that we are still within striking distance of the top four/top six, which would be a reasonable finish come the end of the season. Teams around us have been dropping points. It looks like a reasonably open season.

Finally I thinks it's a bit harsh to draw any real conclusions at this stage of AVBs tenure. IMO our squad has real quality (except at right back, is a little thin (especially up front and at left back) and we have a new manager under immense pressure (not just from our fickle fans but also from many journos who seem to hate him).

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Every game I have seen we have had phases where we have been very tidy. We have started a number of games well trying to keep possession and pressing when without the ball. The wheels have however come off a number of times in the latter halves of the game. Clearly we are low on confidence, are not having the rub of the green and AVB has work to do. I am nowhere near as negative as you and believe we will get some results in the next few games.

What the comparison does tell us, as does the table, is that we are still within striking distance of the top four/top six, which would be a reasonable finish come the end of the season. Teams around us have been dropping points. It looks like a reasonably open season.

Finally I thinks it's a bit harsh to draw any real conclusions at this stage of AVBs tenure. IMO our squad has real quality (except at right back, is a little thin (especially up front and at left back) and we have a new manager under immense pressure (not just from our fickle fans but also from many journos who seem to hate him).

Mate, with all due respect, we've clearly been watching different games.

And I'm not negative about AVB, I don't think there's been a manager in my years as a fan that I have wanted to succeed more than him, but it's being realistic.

 

[Dinghy]

Mate, with all due respect, we've clearly been watching different games.

And I'm not negative about AVB, I don't think there's been a manager in my years as a fan that I have wanted to succeed more than him, but it's being realistic.

You're lying... You just want Harry back. Admit it!

 

[Wiener]

Mate, with all due respect, we've clearly been watching different games.

And I'm not negative about AVB, I don't think there's been a manager in my years as a fan that I have wanted to succeed more than him, but it's being realistic.

If you are going to start talking about being realistic, why don't we start with the facts and then get into the more subjective area of what can be considered realistic expectations and then lastly to your (by definition even more subjective) opinion that there has been no "improvement in our cohesion, tactics or shape". The facts show us in 8th place, 6 points off West Brom in 4th place after a difficult run of games including the Chavs, City and the Arse. I would venture to say that realistically the facts don't support the apparent degree of your concern.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

If you are going to start talking about being realistic, why don't we start with the facts and then get into the more subjective area of what can be considered realistic expectations and then lastly to your (by definition even more subjective) opinion that there has been no "improvement in our cohesion, tactics or shape". The facts show us in 8th place, 6 points off West Brom in 4th place after a difficult run of games including the Chavs, City and the Arse. I would venture to say that realistically the facts don't support the apparent degree of your concern.

If you've seen an improvement from last year in any of the things mentioned above I'd like a copy of the glasses you use. They are obviously a little but rose tinted.

From the first 12 games of last season we had 28 points. That was having played Utd/City/Arsenal/Liverpool.

 

[Wiener]

If you've seen an improvement from last year in any of the things mentioned above I'd like a copy of the glasses you use. They are obviously a little but rose tinted.

From the first 12 games of last season we had 28 points. That was having played Utd/City/Arsenal/Liverpool.

In your first post on this thread you are of the opinion that the OP's premise is rather meaningless. Then, in the above post, you try and do something similar to what the OP has done to support your view of how bad things are. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Christ this is like pulling teeth.

 

[sweyid]

I don't really see the point in this comparison though? It doesn't take into account the players we have added/lost or indeed the players that the opposition have added/lost, too many variables to take into account for this to be a direct comparison.

I'm most disappointed with our performances over anything else, added to the fact that we haven't seen any improvement in our cohesion, tactics or shape. At all. We made the decision to upgrade by bringing in the new regime, after 12 games I would expect to be seeing better things than what we have seen, injuries aside.

That's where my main problem lies, there has been no improvement, in fact I think it's worse.

It wasn't meant as a thorough comparison, simply a comparison of fixtures and results - simple as that. I didn't have the time to do a deeper comparison, looking at statistics from the games etc. I just started out comparing the seasons for myself and thought it could be of interest for some to see the difference between the fixtures of this season, a crisis season, and last season, one of our most (at least the first half) exciting season in a long time.

My point is also that we are worse than last season, even though we're getting similar results. We've lost quality and haven't replaced it properly, we're not playing as attractive football as we'd hoped under AVB, but we're not in a Liverpool style crisis.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

In your first post on this thread you are of the opinion that the OP's premise is rather meaningless. Then, in the above post, you try and do something similar to what the OP has done to support your view of how bad things are. You can't have it both ways.

Yes you're right you cant have it both ways mate, however, there are more things pointing to the fact that we aren't doing that well, no matter how irrelevant they are.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

It wasn't meant as a thorough comparison, simply a comparison of fixtures and results - simple as that. I didn't have the time to do a deeper comparison, looking at statistics from the games etc. I just started out comparing the seasons for myself and thought it could be of interest for some to see the difference between the fixtures of this season, a crisis season, and last season, one of our most (at least the first half) exciting season in a long time.

My point is also that we are worse than last season, even though we're getting similar results. We've lost quality and haven't replaced it properly, we're not playing as attractive football as we'd hoped under AVB, but we're not in a Liverpool style crisis.

Scary thing is in a week, we may not be able to use that excuse any more. I'm certainly not confident.