The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 20th August

Without a shadow of a doubt the worst transfer in Spurs history, and considering our meager circumstances and Poch’s exit, up there with one of the worst purchases in modern PL history. Lovely.

felmani26 said:

Jesus, all the bleeding hearts for Ndombele!

I'm not shedding any tears for a player who let's be fair has shown such a lack of professionalism to his craft to even be match fit, let alone display half of what his talent seemingly suggests he's capable by so many fans who are still suckered in by a few fleeting performances at Lyon.

Anyone, anyone, who wants to leave can exit stage left thanks so if he doesn't have the desire to make a name for himself here and look for an easy way out at the first opportunity then then cheerio because we certainly don't need that attitude here.

If moving him on enables us to secure a deal for the likes of Sabitzer then give me that all day, every day!

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Absolutely spot on. Lets hope as Herc has said that we(Levy) is now open to the idea of selling him that we can find some takers.

snakehipsspurs said:

Cheer Herc and Trix. It's a shame TN hasn't worked out, but no player at the very top in the world can coast anymore, doesn't matter how much talent he has. If he won't apply himself and won't put the work in to succeed, then it's time to go.

As we've heard all along, the press is close to our targets, so if he goes it could well be one of those midfielders we were tentatively linked to over the past couple of weeks (Brozovic and Sabitzer) are the plan to replace him. A player of that calibre coming back in would soften the blow and imo improve the squad.

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Totally. It’s frankly shameful for anyone in a high performance environment to be so fucking lazy and unprofessional.

I’m not normally a judgmental person, but I can see with my eyes that this guy doesn’t give a shit and has no intention of putting in the requisite work.

Give me a clumsy but hard working Sissoko over this talented slouch anyday

Just because were more willing to sell TN doesn't mean he'll go. We've seen what Levy will do if his valuation isn't met. What's the point in selling him.... we've never bought a proper world class player in their prime and it would take one of them to replace what we expected of Ndombele. Fact is were the least attractive proposition that we've been in 4/5 years and were poor in relation to those were fighting it out with, selling anyone who has potential to be a top player is silly if we would replace them with hard working average player in this market.

As you can see by my post its taken the wind outve my sails a little if were willing to se one of the few exciting players we have.... I'm trying so hard to ignore my united supporting friends assumptions of what Jose would do to us long term but its certainly getting harder

PrettyColors said:

Without a shadow of a doubt the worst transfer in Spurs history, and considering our meager circumstances and Poch’s exit, up there with one of the worst purchases in modern PL history. Lovely.

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Big, very big overreaction here

Hercules said:

We will now sell TN!!’

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Fuck me, I watch a couple of Pingu episodes with my youngest, and this shit breaks

DiVaio said:

Big, very big overreaction here

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Yeah. I mean, has he never heard of Gilberto?

Stop blaming Josè for not getting best out of him, or trying to. TN has a rank stinking attitude! I see doom. Getting RID is only option. DL has he work cut out here, and you cannot blame him at all.

DiVaio said:

Big, very big overreaction here

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Agree - he's had decent games and numbers in his solo season, so it's not like he's a flop or a mistake - it just seems like he's not mentally cut out for us. Don't blame anyone for it tbh, and don't think it makes him a terrible signing unless we sell him at a big loss.

I'd be amazed if no one else was interested in him, as he's obviously a very, very good player. Just not a very fit one. That being said, it could be Paulinho syndrome and he's not mentally cut out for the physicality of the PL. PSG are the obviously ideal destination for many reasons.

WiganSpur said:

If you're an Ndombele fan you shouldn't get too downhearted about this.

He's got 4/5 years left on his deal and there is no chance Levy sells unless he's at least getting his money back. I can't see anyone paying up personally and if they do then that's a lot of money for us to spend on 1/2 quality replacements.

The likely scenario therefore is that he stays, and with the amount of games we have he'll definitely get opportunities to play. It will just be up to him whether he applies himself in these lower key matches to gain Mourinho's trust.

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I'm not sure on Levy. Will totally depend on his discussions with Mourinho, because if he's not prepared to involve him then they might both agree to sell now, even with some sort of loss.

I

joey55 said:

Thanks Trix

Does that mean he literally wants the same amount we paid for him back, or that amount minus the one year of depreciation? I don't know the details of the fee etc, but for arguments sake, let's say it was 50 million up front and his contract is over 5 years, from an accounting perspective, wont things balance if we got 40 million for him?

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We don't pay up front, spread over 4 years.

Spurrific said:

I’ll believe it when I see it. Just seems a bit convenient timing and an easy assumption to make that he’s off after he didn’t feature yesterday.

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I’m generally considered a thick but devilishly handsome fucker which is fine by me but I just can’t tell if you’re being ironic or not

Sandro30 said:

Wholefoods, Waitrose and other middle to upper class supermarkets.

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Hercules said:

Stop blaming Josè for not getting best out of him, or trying to. TN has a rank stinking attitude! I see doom. Getting RID is only option. DL has he work cut out here, and you cannot blame him at all.

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It’s a shame that the club had not properly assessed his attitude before signing him.

This is not a ground breaking idea.

Every business when recruiting checks prospective employee’s attitude and motivation and how they will fit with other team members as well as their technical skills before making job offers.

thebenjamin said:

I wonder who did the research into Ndombele's character and concluded we should commit over £100m into signing him.

£65m fee, £200k a week for 6 years - £127.4M commitment. Nice work transfer committee. Or is this one 'On Poch'?

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The fee isn't and never will be that much.

DiVaio said:

Big, very big overreaction here

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Admittedly he could still come good and show some of his Lyon form - but you’d have to ignore an abundance of evidence to the contrary (his injury, his binning after quarantine, all the ITK, reports about laziness and just awful fitness). would be more true when he is actually sold.

Genuinely though who even comes close? £50+m on a midfielder who gave at best 5-6 decent performances and couldn’t stay fit or impose himself on any important matches. When you consider the opportunity cost of coming off a CL final with a side in their prime, the fact that Dybala could have been done with this money, and the fact that 55m for us is 90-100m for the richer PL clubs, his first season was an absolute disaster.

We’ve bought poor players before, N’Jie, Soldado, N’Koudou, even the likes of Bentley in the mid 2000s. But none of those players were bought to be the centerpiece in a team transitioning to the top. Soldado had good work ethic at least. So let me clarify: if N’Dombele goes for a fraction of his original cost, which seems the most likely, this is contextually one of the worst transfers in modern football history.

Ron Burgundy said:

Totally. It’s frankly shameful for anyone in a high performance environment to be so fucking lazy and unprofessional.

I’m not normally a judgmental person, but I can see with my eyes that this guy doesn’t give a shit and has no intention of putting in the requisite work.

Give me a clumsy but hard working Sissoko over this talented slouch anyday

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This is the one thing that most fans and good managers hate the most, a lack of professionalism and effort. Jose has said it time and time again if a players misses a chance or a penalty etc etc no problem it happens, but if a player isn't willing to put in the require effort and have the right attitude that is just inexcusable.

Like with all these things I tried to let it play out a bit and at first was worried this would become another Jose and Pogba situation but the longer things have gone on the more it now seems that unfortunately TN is the issue and his attitude and lack of effort etc as well as his troublesome entourage are making things difficult for Jose so I can 100% see why he wants to move him on. Danny Rose to a lesser extent was similar by running to the papers every other day and Jose just doesn't want that kind of 'risk' and attitude in the squad.

I'm actually glad that it now seems that it is TN who is the problem and not Jose and given that about 99% of the rest of the squad seem to really be completely behind Jose that is really positive and so if Jose is trying to mould a squad to his liking and continue the re-build then we simply must move on TN asap.

For me i've seen two things which made me very worried that the writing could be on the wall with him due to his attitude:
1. The tracking back against Wolves, whether it was due to him not being 100% fit or carrying an injury or just a plain lack of effort that clip which did the rounds on social media was embarrassing, I don't think I've seen any Spurs player show such a lack of effort possibly ever, I genuinely can't think of one.

2. His reaction when anyone gives him the slightest bit of contact is to fall over, hold all sorts of different body parts, rub them better for about 5 minutes, slowly get up and hobble on as if Roy Keane has just two footed him when in actual fact he's barely been touched, sure there are players that need to adapt a bit to the physicality of the league, you could take Modric for example who mabye needed a season or so to get used to it but for me that kind of attitude and reaction is something which in ingrained in him and will be very hard to change and if so he won't suit the PL, he won't suit Jose and he won't suit being a Tottenham player.

You can have as much talent as you like but unless you're putting the required effort in and want to be at the club then it is meaningless and I am now at a point which seems like DL has also reached whereby trying to move him on to get the best deal possible is the best option for the squad and also to try and maximise our effect during this current transfer window.

Thanks for the great info Herc & Trix.

DanNolan said:

Just because were more willing to sell TN doesn't mean he'll go. We've seen what Levy will do if his valuation isn't met. What's the point in selling him.... we've never bought a proper world class player in their prime and it would take one of them to replace what we expected of Ndombele. Fact is were the least attractive proposition that we've been in 4/5 years and were poor in relation to those were fighting it out with, selling anyone who has potential to be a top player is silly if we would replace them with hard working average player in this market.

As you can see by my post its taken the wind outve my sails a little if were willing to se one of the few exciting players we have.... I'm trying so hard to ignore my united supporting friends assumptions of what Jose would do to us long term but its certainly getting harder

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What Jose would do to us long term???

Like transform our mentality from losers to winners, maybe? Like get the entire squad fighting for each other?

Can't do that if you're not holding all the players to the same high standards of professionalism. And, by all accounts (and by the evidence of our own eyes), TN has fallen well short of what is required in that respect.

He may well be a brilliant individual player. But, at this stage of his development at least, he clearly doesn't get the meaning and importance of team, or what is required to make it greater than the sum of its parts. It requires everyone to give their all. He isn't doing that.

So, as much as I had high hopes for TN and as much as I'm disappointed that it hasn't worked out, I'm happy with Herc's itk on this. Move him on. Release funds for players who do get it.

panoma said:

Then DL is very naive.

Noy only has Ndombele showed little, we're also in the middle of a pandemic leaving clubs skint.

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Or realistic. Maybe there is a more limited market granted.

Spurrific said:

I’ll believe it when I see it. Just seems a bit convenient timing and an easy assumption to make that he’s off after he didn’t feature yesterday.

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Also in time window close with EL, Carabao and PL he will have 9 matches to convince Mourinho which was enough for likes of Lo Celso...

Cochise said:

It sounds like we are happy to part with TN if someone is prepared to offer what we think he is worth (£40m ish). However no-one will offer us that for him so he stays.

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Is it mot all relative. It's a bit like the housing market if house prices drop during a recession it only really effects those who have to sell if you don't you ride it out. So if you (ignoring borrowing costs) brought your house for £400k and it is now worth £300k you could buy a similar house for £300k. On that basis of TN transfer cost was say £40m but we can only sell him for £30m there must be a player wotrth £40m last year available for £30m. Probably a nice thought rather than reality.