Race for The Top 10

ItsBoris · Jun 27, 2020

MK Yid said:
What do you regard as our CB pairing ?
Because I don't think any of Sanchez, Tanganga, Vertonghen as he is now he has aged, Toby as he is now he has aged or Foyth gets in above any of theirs. Before the game in the week we had kept the least clean sheets of any team in League (4), at least now we have gone above Norwich in that stat.

And it isn't just a case of form, it is standard of players. We have basically replaced our whole back 4, and have replaced them with weaker players, in effect the prior seasons substitutes.

And I disagree, I think Leicester or Wolves would both be more likely to progress in CL than us with the current squads we all have, simply because they are better teams than us. They don't have the glaring weakness that we do. Leicester have scored 9 (the 3rd most in league) and conceded 12 less (the 2nd least in league) than us this season, do you somehow think that is a fluke ?

I think I would rather have any of Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Sanchez, or Dier than Rudiger or Christensen.

I don't think it's a fluke that Leicester have done better than us in the league - I just think it's not indicative of what you think it is. I personally think Man City is at least as good a team as Liverpool but they're way behind in the league.

Anyway let's just see where the season goes. Leicester have a lot of tough games. I don't believe they'll stay in the top 4 but time will prove me either right or wrong. I just don't see any rationale behind the defeatism that I'm hearing here.

Trotter · Jun 27, 2020

ItsBoris said:
I think I would rather have any of Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Sanchez, or Dier than Rudiger or Christensen.

I don't think it's a fluke that Leicester have done better than us in the league - I just think it's not indicative of what you think it is. I personally think Man City is at least as good a team as Liverpool but they're way behind in the league.

Anyway let's just see where the season goes. Leicester have a lot of tough games. I don't believe they'll stay in the top 4 but time will prove me either right or wrong. I just don't see any rationale behind the defeatism that I'm hearing here.

Then I don't believe you have watched any games this season, and are still living on prior 5 season performances. The guys have lost all mobility now.
Also you are forgetting they have Tomori who looked better than any of ours before his injury.

ILS · Jun 27, 2020

ItsBoris said:
I think I would rather have any of Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Sanchez, or Dier than Rudiger or Christensen.

I don't think it's a fluke that Leicester have done better than us in the league - I just think it's not indicative of what you think it is. I personally think Man City is at least as good a team as Liverpool but they're way behind in the league.

Anyway let's just see where the season goes. Leicester have a lot of tough games. I don't believe they'll stay in the top 4 but time will prove me either right or wrong. I just don't see any rationale behind the defeatism that I'm hearing here.

Nothing better then when you overrate your own team players. I generally cannot see how you can rate Sanchez better then Christansen because he cost more? Sanchez can be a very good defender but I want to see consistency and a serious improvement with the ball at his feet before we can start bigging him up. Dier is not as good as defender as Rudiger. Can he be yes.. if he nails down the position but there is a way go yet.

As for the other two they are only getting worse. I would not be against Selling Toby this transfer window now we have him on a three year contract and we will get more money.

ToDarrenIsToDo · Jun 27, 2020

nav007_2000 said:
I would prefer no Europa next season.

One game a week - Jose will hopefully sort the team out.

Unfortunately with a pandemic going on, Europa League simply isn’t something we can turn our noses up to:

€2.92m starting fee
€570k per group stage win
€1m bonus for the group winners
€500k if you qualify for round of 32
€1.1m if you qualify for round of 16
€1.5m for quarter finals
€2.4m for the semi finals
€4.5m for the final
€4m for the winner
Up to €3.4m coefficient ranking
A split of €168m of TV market pool but I honestly haven’t got a clue what we’d get so I’ll take a punt at €5m (please correct if that’s way off)

An estimated top end revenue made totalling anything from €25m-€30m, along with extra gate receipts, extra commercial revenue etc so maybe €50m in total we’d be wiping our mouths of? No chance the club feels the same as you do from top to bottom.

Trotter · Jun 27, 2020

ToDarrenIsToDo said:
Unfortunately with a pandemic going on, Europa League simply isn’t something we can turn our noses up to:

€2.92m starting fee
€570k per group stage win
€1m bonus for the group winners
€500k if you qualify for round of 32
€1.1m if you qualify for round of 16
€1.5m for quarter finals
€2.4m for the semi finals
€4.5m for the final
€4m for the winner
Up to €3.4m coefficient ranking
A split of €168m of TV market pool but I honestly haven’t got a clue what we’d get so I’ll take a punt at €5m (please correct if that’s way off)

An estimated top end revenue made totalling anything from €25m-€30m, along with extra gate receipts, extra commercial revenue etc so maybe €50m in total we’d be wiping our mouths of? No chance the club feels the same as you do from top to bottom.

Think your TV pool money is way off.
Man U won €45m (£40m) for winning it in 2017, and since then there has been a 30% increase in the prize pool.
That excludes all the gates receipts/merchandising etc.

You can safely say we would earn minimum £70m by winning it, all included

Europa League Prize Money For 2022 (Confirmed)

UEFA has announced that €510 million will be distributed among Europa League clubs where potential winners can earn around €45 million

www.totalsportek.com

ILS · Jun 27, 2020

ToDarrenIsToDo said:
Unfortunately with a pandemic going on, Europa League simply isn’t something we can turn our noses up to:

€2.92m starting fee
€570k per group stage win
€1m bonus for the group winners
€500k if you qualify for round of 32
€1.1m if you qualify for round of 16
€1.5m for quarter finals
€2.4m for the semi finals
€4.5m for the final
€4m for the winner
Up to €3.4m coefficient ranking
A split of €168m of TV market pool but I honestly haven’t got a clue what we’d get so I’ll take a punt at €5m (please correct if that’s way off)

An estimated top end revenue made totalling anything from €25m-€30m, along with extra gate receipts, extra commercial revenue etc so maybe €50m in total we’d be wiping our mouths of? No chance the club feels the same as you do from top to bottom.

It's not just that. It's the arrogance of spurs fans on this board just to disregard the Europa League. We need to focus on the league....why? It's not like we are going to win it. Win the Europa League. Get that winning mentality in this fucking football club!!

We used to take the piss out of Arsenal for finishing fourth every season and being happy, yet we have now been brainwashed by Sky Sports that the only thing that matters is the Top 4.

Win the Europa League. Give us Fans and players a memory and qualify for the Champions League that way rather then fourth, 30 points off the champions of England... because that is where we will be again next season.

ajspurs · Jun 27, 2020

I cant say I'm bothered about Europa other than for maybe potential financial implications, but I also can't say I'm greatly bothered about the League Cup or FA Cup either. We can criticise those who just want top 4, but until we improve that's all the good we'll be getting in my view as we can achieve it by only having to be the 4th best. I just don't think we're well enough equipped to compete as we'd like to in anything right now. Even if we got the luck of the draw and made it far in domestic cups, I can currently realistically see ourselves losing to either United, Liverpool, City, Chelsea or even Leicester or Wolves.

I want to win a cup badly, any cup but until we improve on the pitch and start to see any bit of a well-oiled machine out there then we're not winning a single thing IMO.

double0 · Jun 28, 2020

Levy has to spend because CL will be out of the question other teams ie Leicester Wolves Everton are closing the gap while other teams have pulled way clear of us. For us to maximise our financial capacity we're going to need CL football. At this moment our squad isn't good enough we need better full backs, LCB, back up CF, DM and probably another match winner.

Yid121 · Jun 28, 2020

ToDarrenIsToDo said:
Unfortunately with a pandemic going on, Europa League simply isn’t something we can turn our noses up to:

€2.92m starting fee
€570k per group stage win
€1m bonus for the group winners
€500k if you qualify for round of 32
€1.1m if you qualify for round of 16
€1.5m for quarter finals
€2.4m for the semi finals
€4.5m for the final
€4m for the winner
Up to €3.4m coefficient ranking
A split of €168m of TV market pool but I honestly haven’t got a clue what we’d get so I’ll take a punt at €5m (please correct if that’s way off)

An estimated top end revenue made totalling anything from €25m-€30m, along with extra gate receipts, extra commercial revenue etc so maybe €50m in total we’d be wiping our mouths of? No chance the club feels the same as you do from top to bottom.

How does that compare to the carling cup?

Stamford · Jun 28, 2020

To get the benefits of the stadium we need people in the ground for as many games as possible. Definitely want any form of European football

Shadydan · Jun 28, 2020

The Europa League is a shit competition, it's nothing to do with arrogance, it's about being realistic to our goals and where we see ourselves as a club, we see ourselves as a Champions League club and we want to give ourselves the best and most realistic opportunity of qualifying for the CL. We actually have 4 opportunities for qualifying for the comp as opposed to one which requires a dose of more luck than a league campaign because it's a cup comp.

And why do people constantly talk about winning the competition and qualifying for CL like we are absolutely guaranteed that's going to happen? We were meant to win in 2016 after we dropped out of CL, what happened there?, even previous seasons where we've been amongst the favs but all we're conjured up is a measly QF appearance in recent years... yes we know it gives us a back door into the CL but so does finishing top 4 which is far less risk if you're paying in the PL with no European distraction and we've constantly seen teams do well in the Premier League who don't have the distraction of playing in Europe. If you really want a distraction at least the CL is a worthy one and at least if lends favorably to your domestic campaign as far as scheduling a travel go.

You want us to win a trophy? We have a far better chance of winning one of the domestic cups, at least you have adequate rest between matches and there's less rounds to play.

cliff jones · Jun 28, 2020

Walob. It’s a platform for the squad, and talent like Sess and Skipp to develop, keep the 22 active, boost the co efficient for future CL draws if we are aiming that high - and it’s a chance to play new teams identify close up emerging talent and midweek interest for real football fans. And that’s in addition to any financial rewards.

get some new fans in the stadium as well if this virus ever fcks off, local fans at discounted prices - even if your hero would hurt at the sheer thought of more discounting

finishing too low for Europa mean less revenue from league finishing position to reinvest in the squad/ grow ENICs investment

yido4life · Jun 28, 2020

Personally I’d love to see us have a crack at winning the Europa if we get in.

But I also would prefer a top four finish. Not because I’ve been brainwashed by sky and aside from some of the enjoyable football, it’s because I get how important champions league football is to the clubs progression. We’ve been told for years that the reason that we don’t match the spending of the other top four clubs is because we can’t match their income and turnover. Bringing in champions league footballis important to that but also to income like shirt sponsorship and stadium naming rights. I bet if we aren’t playing champions league football next year potential naming rights investors won’t be. As interested or as willing to invest as much!
our board/owners have always proven to be the least willing to take a gamble on player than the likes of city, Liverpool, Utd. For us to even come close to competing with that we need to match or exceed their income. I would also say that our transfer policy has been hijacked by the likes of Utd and Chelsea who are now also willing to invest in younger players. But they seem to mix the purchases with some established and expensive players who it’s often argued we can’t sign because of the wages or the image rights! If we don’t Come close to the income of these clubs we will be forever playing catch up and champions league football is important to that, not just because of the income it generates but the shop window it puts us in!

would love a Europa or an FA cup win though!

Shadydan · Jun 28, 2020

cliff jones said:
Walob. It’s a platform for the squad, and talent like Sess and Skipp to develop, keep the 22 active, boost the co efficient for future CL draws if we are aiming that high - and it’s a chance to play new teams identify close up emerging talent and midweek interest for real football fans. And that’s in addition to any financial rewards.

get some new fans in the stadium as well if this virus ever fcks off, local fans at discounted prices - even if your hero would hurt at the sheer thought of more discounting

finishing too low for Europa mean less revenue from league finishing position to reinvest in the squad/ grow ENICs investment

Yeah Sess and Skipp are really going to learn a lot playing FC carrier bag or travelling to Afghanistan to play on AstroTurf pitches lol

If you think the EL is going to give us huge revenue and make a difference to us financially then you haven't really been paying attention, don't get the identify emerging talent or the midweek interest argument either - it rarely ever works like that.

Finishing too low for Europa probably makes a difference of around £2-4m, hardly gonna break the bank is it?

ILS · Jun 28, 2020

Shadydan said:
The Europa League is a shit competition, it's nothing to do with arrogance, it's about being realistic to our goals and where we see ourselves as a club, we see ourselves as a Champions League club and we want to give ourselves the best and most realistic opportunity of qualifying for the CL. We actually have 4 opportunities for qualifying for the comp as opposed to one which requires a dose of more luck than a league campaign because it's a cup comp.

And why do people constantly talk about winning the competition and qualifying for CL like we are absolutely guaranteed that's going to happen? We were meant to win in 2016 after we dropped out of CL, what happened there?, even previous seasons where we've been amongst the favs but all we're conjured up is a measly QF appearance in recent years... yes we know it gives us a back door into the CL but so does finishing top 4 which is far less risk if you're paying in the PL with no European distraction and we've constantly seen teams do well in the Premier League who don't have the distraction of playing in Europe. If you really want a distraction at least the CL is a worthy one and at least if lends favorably to your domestic campaign as far as scheduling a travel go.

You want us to win a trophy? We have a far better chance of winning one of the domestic cups, at least you have adequate rest between matches and there's less rounds to play.

Jose wasn't our manager back in 2016 . A manager who has won the competition twice already and respects it unlike the arrogant spurs managers beforehand.

Also I don't see Wolves having any issues going for both competitions; who have a smaller squad then we do. Actually out of the top 7, there is only one team who wasn't in Europe this season, the one team whose form is dipping at the business end.

Also it is not that bad of competition if the last five winners have been Ath Madrid X 3 , Sevilla X 3, Chelsea x 2, Man Utd and Porto.

ILS · Jun 28, 2020

Shadydan said:
Yeah Sess and Skipp are really going to learn a lot playing FC carrier bag or travelling to Afghanistan to play on AstroTurf pitches lol

If you think the EL is going to give us huge revenue and make a difference to us financially then you haven't really been paying attention, don't get the identify emerging talent or the midweek interest argument either - it rarely ever works like that.

Finishing too low for Europa probably makes a difference of around £2-4m, hardly gonna break the bank is it?

That FC Qarabag who were in the Champions League?

spursfan77 · Jun 28, 2020

ILS said:
It's not just that. It's the arrogance of spurs fans on this board just to disregard the Europa League. We need to focus on the league....why? It's not like we are going to win it. Win the Europa League. Get that winning mentality in this fucking football club!!

We used to take the piss out of Arsenal for finishing fourth every season and being happy, yet we have now been brainwashed by Sky Sports that the only thing that matters is the Top 4.

Win the Europa League. Give us Fans and players a memory and qualify for the Champions League that way rather then fourth, 30 points off the champions of England... because that is where we will be again next season.

Isnt that what ultimately the football club is there for?

A lot of people have lost sight of that.

There’s actually people turning their noses up at winning the FA Cup, a trophy we haven’t won in nearly thirty years FFS! Absolute madness and just shows how indoctrinated the armchair and Twitter fan is by the TV companies and the journalists who go along with that agenda. I‘ve been to every final we have been in since becoming a season ticket holder in 2006 and the memories would be a lot better had we won more than one but they’re still that, memories. Maybe those that castigate the cups don’t get to go to the games, I suspect that’s part of the problem. Would be good to know actually.

Shadydan · Jun 28, 2020

ILS said:
Jose wasn't our manager back in 2016 . A manager who has won the competition twice already and respects it unlike the arrogant spurs managers beforehand.

Also I don't see Wolves having any issues going for both competitions; who have a smaller squad then we do. Actually out of the top 7, there is only one team who wasn't in Europe this season, the one team whose form is dipping at the business end.

Also it is not that bad of competition if the last five winners have been Ath Madrid X 3 , Sevilla X 3, Chelsea x 2, Man Utd and Porto.

Wolves as good as they are doing are not challenging for the league (which is where we want to be), we've seen the likes of Leicester and Chelsea benefit from no European football recently and won the league - this is the level we aspire to be and we're going to struggle to keep up with City and Liverpool if we're playing on a Thursday/Sunday schedule.

Yeah look good teams win this trophy, that's not my point though, I'm talking about the amount of effort it takes to win it, is it really worth the hassle?

spursfan77 · Jun 28, 2020

Shadydan said:
The Europa League is a shit competition, it's nothing to do with arrogance, it's about being realistic to our goals and where we see ourselves as a club, we see ourselves as a Champions League club and we want to give ourselves the best and most realistic opportunity of qualifying for the CL. We actually have 4 opportunities for qualifying for the comp as opposed to one which requires a dose of more luck than a league campaign because it's a cup comp.

And why do people constantly talk about winning the competition and qualifying for CL like we are absolutely guaranteed that's going to happen? We were meant to win in 2016 after we dropped out of CL, what happened there?, even previous seasons where we've been amongst the favs but all we're conjured up is a measly QF appearance in recent years... yes we know it gives us a back door into the CL but so does finishing top 4 which is far less risk if you're paying in the PL with no European distraction and we've constantly seen teams do well in the Premier League who don't have the distraction of playing in Europe. If you really want a distraction at least the CL is a worthy one and at least if lends favorably to your domestic campaign as far as scheduling a travel go.

You want us to win a trophy? We have a far better chance of winning one of the domestic cups, at least you have adequate rest between matches and there's less rounds to play.

I agree it’s a shit competition. Empty stadiums abroad, awful officials, playing Thursday (and Sunday’s) and I don’t like it. But beggars can’t be choosers. To win it is very difficult too.

ILS · Jun 28, 2020

Shadydan said:
Wolves as good as they are doing are not challenging for the league (which is where we want to be), we've seen the likes of Leicester and Chelsea benefit from no European football recently and won the league - this is the level we aspire to be and we're going to struggle to keep up with City and Liverpool if we're playing on a Thursday/Sunday schedule.

Yeah look good teams win this trophy, that's not my point though, I'm talking about the amount of effort it takes to win it, is it really worth the hassle?

Yes it is worth the hassle for a club that has won sod all since 2008.

We need to be realistic and this isn't the premier League when both us and Leicester were going for it. Utd were in disarray, Pep had just arrived. Klopp was building his team. This is the premier League where Liverpool are setting new records, City will come firing back next season with a couple defensive additions, Utd are two players away from being back up there, Chelsea have a very good team. Wolves are only going get better. Apart from our front three and Lo Celso the rest of our 11 are miles off the quality we had back in 2016/17.

We need to be realistic as to the level we are currently at and what is achievable. I generally believe unless we win something next season, Kane is going to hand in a transfer request and end up a Utd and then we start all over again. Just by finishing top four isn't going to keep him. He needs to see progression by winning a trophy not by finishng fourth again and even then we do not spend the levels.of money compared to our rivals which has happened every year we have been in the champions League.

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