The Mauricio Pochettino thread

Monkey boy · Oct 21, 2019

Timberwolf said:
Sadly, as with everything that involves Levy, this will likely come down to money. We've sacked managers for far less in the past but they haven't been on long contracts. I suspect this will drag on and on before we finally bite the bullet once we're out of the CL and top 4 is barely possible.

As much as I love Poch for all that he's done, the writing is on the wall and we need to act quickly and decisively before we end up throwing away everything he's built over the past 5 years.

It’s also a fact that on the other hand instead of paying off Poch that he could be getting a cool £30m off of Man Utd or madrid if he holds out a little longer which in Levy’s eyes makes it a £60m decision.

bubble07 · Oct 21, 2019

Poch was asked if Lo Celso and Sess would be involved tomorrow. He said one would be

TEESSIDE1 · Oct 21, 2019

Monkey boy said:
It’s also a fact that on the other hand instead of paying off Poch that he could be getting a cool £30m off of Man Utd or madrid if he holds out a little longer which in Levy’s eyes makes it a £60m decision.

The cost to club will vastly outweigh any potential incoming money for Poch if the poor form continues.

TEESSIDE1 · Oct 21, 2019

bubble07 said:
Poch was asked if Lo Celso and Sess would be involved tomorrow. He said one would be

Bet he didn’t know which one lol

Locotoro · Oct 21, 2019

Does anyone think this bad run of form correlates with moving into the Stadium?
Most of our great european victories came away from home and I'm wondering if there is something in it?

Stamford · Oct 21, 2019

Locotoro said:
Does anyone think this bad run of form correlates with moving into the Stadium?
Most of our great european victories came away from home and I'm wondering if there is something in it?

Nah, this football predates the stadium move. Think about Wolves at Wembley for example

markiespurs · Oct 21, 2019

Locotoro said:
Does anyone think this bad run of form correlates with moving into the Stadium?
Most of our great european victories came away from home and I'm wondering if there is something in it?

Considering our poor run of form started before we moved in to the new stadium, I'd say no

allatsea · Oct 21, 2019

Mr Pink said:
I agree. Levy has to do what's best for us, what Poch does thereafter is beyond our control.

I just think these things are playing on Levy's mind.

Surely he's aware if Poch has lost the dressing room though.

Levy is no fool and I am sure there will something in Poch’s contract to protect Spurs in this sort of situation.

thecook · Oct 21, 2019

TEESSIDE1 said:
Bet he didn’t know which one lol

yeah he hasn't tossed the coin as to what formation we'll play yet!

TEESSIDE1 · Oct 21, 2019

thecook said:
yeah he hasn't tossed the coin as to what formation we'll play yet!

and even then he’ll say GLC was fit and raring to go but he opted to play a central midfield 3 of Wanyama, Dier and Sissoko lol

Gb160 · Oct 21, 2019

Bobbins said:
It'd be about £35m at the moment wouldn't it?

Theoretically, but it wouldn't have to paid up front to get rid of him...Levy could stick him on gardening leave for the rest of his contract.
It would never happen, firstly because Levy doesn't want to pay 2 managers in tandem, secondly because I very much doubt Poch will want to sit on his arse for the next 3/4 years.
They'd probably sit down like 2 adults and come to an agreement that suits both of them.

Timberwolf · Oct 21, 2019

Monkey boy said:
It’s also a fact that on the other hand instead of paying off Poch that he could be getting a cool £30m off of Man Utd or madrid if he holds out a little longer which in Levy’s eyes makes it a £60m decision.

Risky game to play. Madrid and Utd might not fire them for another month or two and even then there's no guarantee they'll want to pay the fee for Poch if they think he'll get sacked before long. Levy does love a game of chicken, though, so it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

DCSPUR · Oct 21, 2019

Cochise said:
Pretty pointless comparison really though.

Firstly, just over 100m of your assessment was spent this window just gone. Then there are the transfers we made prior to Klopp coming in which is another 107m.

If you want to do a real comparison look at the backing both have had since Klopp was appointed (October 2015). That makes it Klopp 392.38m spent, Poch 184.5m spent.

Now take into account the quality of player. They have spent more than 30m on a player seven times, three of which were in excess of 50m. Meanwhile only Sissoko and Sanchez cost us more than 30m.

We have bought 11 players in the same time that they have bought 12 but for half the money. The average cost of a Spurs player from that time period is 16.77m, for Liverpool it's 32.69m.

Simply put, Klopp has been backed from the moment he stepped through the door, Poch has had to work with vastly inferior players. Would you rather one Salah or a GKN and Janssen?? Allisson or Sissoko and Aurier??

You are right that our recruitment is piss poor, but Klopp has had vastly superior players to work with since he came in. Our only decent window came in Summer 2015 when we got Alderweireld and Son, two first XI players. Since then, only Wanyama has made a real mark on the first team with Sanchez, Moura, Aurier and Sissoko looking better as squad options.

you are 100% correct. I also think this is telling.

When we beat Liverpool 4-1 at Wembley a couple of years ago this was their team and subs:

Liverpool (4-3-3) Mignolet; Gomez, Matip, Lovren, Moreno; Milner, Henderson, Can; Salah, Firmino, Coutinho.

From their starting X1 that day to their game against Man Utd this weekend the changes were: Alison, Matip, VVD, Robertson, Mane, Wijnaldum, Fabinho....with AA from bench to starter and Origi for the injured Salah. They also have Keita on the bench

Substitutes: Karius, Klavan, Alexander-Arnold, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Grujic, Solanke, Sturridge.

From that day to our last match against Watford we have lost Trippier from the starting X1 and Nkoudou and Fernando from the bench.
We have added Moura (started), Foyth and Ndombele

Tottenham Hotspur (3-3-2-2) Lloris; Alderweireld, Sanchez, Vertonghen; Trippier, Winks, Aurier; Eriksen, Alli; Son, Kane.
Substitutes: Davies, Rose, Dier, Nkoudou, Sissoko, Llorente.

The BsoL conveniently gloss over that.

mil1lion · Oct 21, 2019

Our biggest problem at the moment is lack of confidence. It's been ages since we last won away, or won back to back games and we lost in the CL final. That's the number one reason the players heads have dropped. It's easy to blame it on the manager when you're looking for an explanation. One big win will see the confidence flowing back. Every time we get another set back like conceding another early goal is only going to make it harder though.

I think we need to dig out some wins and then we'll see a complete change in the morale. We don't need to sack Poch to get there. People say when it gets like this it always leads to the manager getting sack. Thats only because managers are rarely given time to turn things around. Poch deserves that more than anyone.

Nick-TopSpursMan · Oct 21, 2019

mil1lion said:
Our biggest problem at the moment is lack of confidence. It's been ages since we last won away, or won back to back games and we lost in the CL final. That's the number one reason the players heads have dropped. It's easy to blame it on the manager when you're looking for an explanation. One big win will see the confidence flowing back. Every time we get another set back like conceding another early goal is only going to make it harder though.

I think we need to dig out some wins and then we'll see a complete change in the morale. We don't need to sack Poch to get there. People say when it gets like this it always leads to the manager getting sack. Thats only because managers are rarely given time to turn things around. Poch deserves that more than anyone.

We smashed Palace 4-0 playing brilliantly but it didn't fix any issues or give us confidence as we followed it up with a draw away to Olympiacos and then a defeat at Leicester, having led both matches.

I'm not convinced a big win fixes anything.

pffft · Oct 21, 2019

Primativ said:
Is it really going to be a huge payout? Would Levy really put himself in such a situation?

I think I read somewhere recently, though open to correction if I'm wrong, that a lot of manager contracts nowadays have a clause stating that termination payouts are only 6 months wages. A brief google search shows that in at least a couple of instances, clubs have inserted termination clauses significantly lower than the remaining length of contract might be- this article says that Keegan had a £2m clause at Newcastle and Moyes a single year's wages at Utd, although both are obviously a bit out of date:

Football manager contracts of employment – key clauses for clubs to consider – Part 1 - LawInSport

As the role of a football manager has become increasingly less stable – particularly at the highest level of the game - the terms of a football manager’s contract have assumed greater significance, given the issues that are likely to arise when club and manager part company. The purpose of this...

www.lawinsport.com

I'd be amazed if Poch's contract didn't have some form of termination clause simply because of how often managers get sacked- I would expect they all have some reduced-compensation clause nowadays.
.

McFlash · Oct 21, 2019

Just because I loved Poch once, doesn't me I will always love him. I'm not Whitney fucking Houston.

Nerine · Oct 21, 2019

mil1lion said:
Our biggest problem at the moment is lack of confidence. It's been ages since we last won away, or won back to back games and we lost in the CL final. That's the number one reason the players heads have dropped. It's easy to blame it on the manager when you're looking for an explanation. One big win will see the confidence flowing back. Every time we get another set back like conceding another early goal is only going to make it harder though.

I think we need to dig out some wins and then we'll see a complete change in the morale. We don't need to sack Poch to get there. People say when it gets like this it always leads to the manager getting sack. Thats only because managers are rarely given time to turn things around. Poch deserves that more than anyone.

Whilst I do agree with that to an extent, I can't help but feel he tries to change up things too much. Some of the winning formulae we've had where we go on a run are needlessly chopped and changed about for no reason a lot of the time.

I don't ever really understand his decisions.

I'm all for giving him time, and I think Poch is awesome, but just lately he has baffled me.

The tactics, the formations, the starting 11's, the substitutions, the use of players winding down their contracts, the complete lack of game time some promising youth players have even when (we used to be) winning comfortably, the cryptic media messages, the lack of emotion on the touchline nowadays, the depressingly long integration of new players into the squad, the picking of players on name rather than merit, etc etc. I mean I could just go on and on. There just seems to be so little continuity in what is happening on the pitch. It's all very disjointed, cobbled together, patched up, nonsensical stuff.

It's such an iffy one, this.

And..................................................

This is the best bit... We have many people on this forum who watch Spurs week in week out.

When the lineup is announced we ALL see what issues we are going to have during the game.

Everyone usually collectively predicts what will happen aside from a few outliers here and there, and lo and behold it usually does...

It sometimes feels like we know the team better than Poch FFS....

spids · Oct 21, 2019

Locotoro said:
Does anyone think this bad run of form correlates with moving into the Stadium?
Most of our great european victories came away from home and I'm wondering if there is something in it?

As I have said a few times in the stadium thread over the last two years, it is proven that teams moving to a new stadium have an 18 month dip in form. We've effectively moved twice in the last 3 years. Won't be a proper advantage (home) until 2020/21 at the earliest IMO.

beats1 · Oct 21, 2019

wadewill said:
I thought both looked good from the very limited moments ive seen them, definitely have potential

They have raw potential no doubting that but they are far off the likes of Carroll, Townsend and etc.

When they jumped in to the first team, bar Bentaleb, the players who played for us had a 100 games experience and in bentaleb, he had a coach who believed in him and knew him well

Whilst these guys aren't as ready to be dropped straight in, rotate one or two max but you cant have a situation where when poch took over, he had 5 academy players/starters and then carroll on the bench as well

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