Player Watch Player Watch: Giovani Lo Celso

dfree said:

I don't think anyone is gonna be title challengers this year tbh. Liverpool had a significant amount of luck last year and didn't capitalise and I can't see them repeating it. City are a domestic juggernaut, to even be close to them everything has to be near perfection for you and go badly for them.

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Also a few external factors to add into the mix - our new stadium would (and may still) see us get a few more points via referee decisions favouring home team (which i felt didn't seem to happen as much at Wembley). On the flip side of that, VAR should rule out a lot of home advantage decisions, at both ends, so unfortunately we might not gain as much from a big noisey home stadium as we would have done in previous years.

But just as we won't get any penalties that aren't deserved due to VAR, neither will Liverpool be able to gain points from the wind blowing Salah over in the box.

Personally think the whole league will be tighter top to bottom as a result of VAR.

worcestersauce said:

Why is it that Levy doesn't want to buy people and just plays this game every window? I'm not sure I understand why he goes to all the trouble of pretending to buy players then making up stories about the other side reneging on the agreement if he has intention of buying, why doesn't he just not bother.

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This has Grealish written all over it, a whole summer long saga which ultimately left us empty handed, all the same signs are coming to fruition, positive noises for the majority of the summer, then last 2 weeks, all goes silent ...

leemason2302 said:

We haven't done enough in the market to become serious title challengers, our fullbacks have needed upgrading since walker left and rose had his problems. We have signed a great player in Ndombele but that's just not nearly enough to overtake Liverpool or City.

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We've only finished behind Liverpool once in about 5 years. We had massive injuries last year and they had unbelievable luck with injuries and decisions. VAR is probably going to cost Salah about 5 penalties alone next year. They won't have the same rub of the green they did this year and don't have the depth in their squad that we do. If we sign one more quality player like Lo Celso it will make all the difference. If we sign Dybala and Lo Celso I'd say we will have a much better squad.

spurslenny said:

Ok, time to be sensible. A self imposed SC sabbatical until the window closes is in order I think.










See you all in about 10 minutes

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I tried this on Sunday.... I lasted 4 hours

yido_number1 said:

We've only finished behind Liverpool once in about 5 years. We had massive injuries last year and they had unbelievable luck with injuries and decisions. VAR is probably going to cost Salah about 5 penalties alone next year. They won't have the same rub of the green they did this year and don't have the depth in their squad that we do. If we sign one more quality player like Lo Celso it will make all the difference. If we sign Dybala and Lo Celso I'd say we will have a much better squad.

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Mate that was not luck... Losing one game all season long and winning the CL... Come on. They took 2 windows and sorted their shit out.

yido_number1 said:

We've only finished behind Liverpool once in about 5 years. We had massive injuries last year and they had unbelievable luck with injuries and decisions. VAR is probably going to cost Salah about 5 penalties alone next year. They won't have the same rub of the green they did this year and don't have the depth in their squad that we do. If we sign one more quality player like Lo Celso it will make all the difference. If we sign Dybala and Lo Celso I'd say we will have a much better squad.

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I agree with the VAR messing up salah but us not addressing fullback will haunt us until it's resolved.

piedpiper said:

Mate that was not luck... Losing one game all season long and winning the CL... Come on. They took 2 windows and sorted their shit out.

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Highlight the whole of what I said. Unbelievable luck with injuries. They didn't lose any of their key players for any length of time.

JonnySpurs said:

That's not what I mean. I didn't say he was wrong for being negative but more that he was specifically very critical of Levy and would often talk about Poch not being happy. He talks about no agendas but in truth he has previously shown a very clear anti-levy agenda which would make me question this recent info somewhat.

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By the same token Johnny some itk are compelled to expound a definitively pro-Levy agenda either because they're employees of the Club or because the information they receive comes via people employed at the Club, and as such, they're telling us only what the club want us to hear. In that sense, they're part of the Club's PR propaganda machine so perhaps we need to be equally cautious with the "official line" info they provide, and not accept it blindly, unquestionably, as the gospel truth.
Perhaps Gards' anti Levy agenda is justified because like most itk he's privy to how Levy operates behinds the scenes and might have some insight into the Lo Celso negotiations but unlike the club-sponsored itks he's completely unfettered and can express his opinions and disseminate that information freely, with impunity and without censorship, whereas others have to "keep schtum" or are briefed to provide a version of events that the Club wants us to believe.
This is why, for me this latest info that it's Betis that has moved the goalposts seems counterintuitive. Surely they don't have a particularly strong negotiating hand: Lo Celso wants to join us, there are no other viable rivals for his signature, they've already shelled out for his replacement, and their coach has publicly stated that they need to raise funds to buy a striker. Why would they jeopardise a deal they seem to desperately need to happen by reneging on it at the last minute? Isn't it more plausible that it's us that has moved the goalposts because Levy is scenting blood? He recognises he's in a position of strength for all the reasons listed above, and has looked to renegotiate the terms of the deal with the clock ticking and Betis in need of a sale. I mean it's not like he doesn't have previous with this lowball strategy: some of it well-documented success (see the Lloris affair); some of it abject failure (see the Grealish debacle). If that were the case, it would perhaps account for Poch's prickliness in a recent press conference when he was asked about transfers, and Gards' assertion that he's unhappy.
But crucially if the current impasse were down to Levy's brinkmanship does anyone think the Club itks would be allowed to tell us? There'd be uproar mate. Fans would be spitting blood, especially after the previous 2 windows in general and the Grealish fuck up in particular. It'd be a PR disaster! So putting the blame squarely at the feet of Betis seems the most prudent and expedient course of action. All that being said, I'm strangely really confident that Levy will win this particular game of poker this time around. I don't think he can afford to fuck this one up regardless of how that failure might be spun. Certainly, all the ITKs that have commented on it - regardless of their bias - seem to think it'll still get done. Let's hope so eh mate!

leemason2302 said:

I agree with the VAR messing up salah but us not addressing fullback will haunt us until it's resolved.

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Poch feels he has with Foyth. Personally I'd have tried harder for that Max Aarons at Norwich. Hopefully Aurier can stay fit and play himself into some form. IF Rose stays we are good on the left.

yido_number1 said:

Poch feels he has with Foyth. Personally I'd have tried harder for that Max Aarons at Norwich. Hopefully Aurier can stay fit and play himself into some form. IF Rose stays we are good on the left.

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Aarons was a must in my opinion, I like Foyth but don't think he's the walker type we have craved since he left.

samspurs92 said:

I’m pretty sure the club would have been prudent and had some options on multiple foreign currencies should they need to use them during the transfer window. If an entity the size of a CL football team didn’t protect themselves against the pound weakening in the current market then it is pure negligence.

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We are talking about a club here who used the 2018 World Cup as an excuse for not signing anyone. I mean it was in the diary since the 1930’s!

13VanDerBale13 said:

This has Grealish written all over it, a whole summer long saga which ultimately left us empty handed, all the same signs are coming to fruition, positive noises for the majority of the summer, then last 2 weeks, all goes silent ...

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But why would he set out not to buy someone but spend the whole window pretending he is going to buy them?

worcestersauce said:

But why would he set out not to buy someone but spend the whole window pretending he is going to buy them?

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Im sure he wants to buy them but ultimately if the deal doesn't suit him financially he wont do it, simple as that to be honest - 'we tried/ran out of time'

Levy just has the worst luck in transfers. Every club we engage in move the goal posts on him so we are told. It’s amazing how every other club in world football doesn’t run into the same difficulty completing transfers. Life is rough for short, bald guys I guess.

Just some negotiation humor, regardless of whether it is true.

"However, no deal has been reached as of yet, and El Desmarque have now claimed that Betis are far from happy with Tottenham’s transfer techniques. They reportedly believe that Spurs are exploiting Betis’ need to sell and the tight Premier League window deadline to get a better deal."
(https://www.spurs-web.com/spurs-new...ion-towards-tottenham-over-transfer-dealings/)

Duh! Last I checked it is called negotiation, and good negotiators will always look to create leverage. Always release info that creates leverage, never release info that loses leverage. Betis should be motivated to release info in ALL available channels to regain leverage about their need not to sell to counter the perception that they need to sell.

13VanDerBale13 said:

Im sure he wants to buy them but ultimately if the deal doesn't suit him financially he wont do it, simple as that to be honest - 'we tried/ran out of time'

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That's more in line with my thinking but there does seem to be a fair amount of opinion that it is all just an elaborate hoax and I just can't understand why people believe that.

Posted in the ITK thread, but Blaino on FTL has just said...

Twice agreed a fee re Lo Celso, twice RB have moved the goalposts. They're very much playing silly buggers.

In terms of players out, we can't physically kick them out the door and at the moment nobody wants players on the decline and those players want to be at top clubs.

Sessegnon - lord knows what's going on with that now. He'd said his goodbyes etc.

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Followed by

They need to sell as they admit and our deadline is in 9 days and their player has agreed to sign for us. What’s the issue. It’s their problem now. We had a deal.

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leemason2302 said:

I agree with the VAR messing up salah but us not addressing fullback will haunt us until it's resolved.

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It depends on how much trust Poch has in Walker Peters and I guess Sess (if he arrives). Everyone is looking for Liverpool for comparisons in their transfer dealings with VD and Allison, which are fair, but klopp also put his trust in Trent Alexander and Joe Gomez ( if he remained fit) who have been outstanding. I suspect a lot of their fans where pondering and getting restless in filling those position but perhaps Poch really does see WP and Foyth filling those positions and doesn’t have an issue there.

Still I hope we get the lo and Ryan deals over the line as they would improve our squad

amathews3416 said:

Levy just has the worst luck in transfers. Every club we engage in move the goal posts on him so we are told. It’s amazing how every other club in world football doesn’t run into the same difficulty completing transfers. Life is rough for short, bald guys I guess.

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The reality is is that we're so invested in our own club that we don't look at how other clubs are doing. United have been after Bruno Fernandes since, what, the beginning of the window? They've been linked with him in the media for about as long, if not longer, than we have Lo Celso, but when they announce his signing this week, I'm sure our fans will use it as an excuse to criticise Levy.

That's just one example, but it happens with every club. The reality is is that we know too much, too early, so every transfer is an excuse to beat Levy over the head with. When Son was linked with us and then signed a day later, it was deemed as a masterstroke, but that's only because the media hadn't got wind of the (I assume) months of negotiation involved beforehand that we weren't privy to; something similar happened with Sanchez I believe, which had a pretty quick turnaround of a couple of weeks from media reporting it to him holding the shirt.

I'm a pretty big critic of Levy and he certainly has previous - our last several windows are proof of that - but the idea that other clubs are somehow nonchalantly breezing through their transfer business is nonsense.

nicdic said:

Posted in the ITK thread, but Blaino on FTL has just said...



Followed by

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#levyout

Perhaps this is what Poch is unhappy with?