- Jan 20, 2006
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Chimbonda and Berbatov both had more; so did Defoe, although quite a few of those were as sub.
So it's the other players fault for him not playing well, loosely. More that Martin Jol's system fails him. Why? Because he isn't a defensive minded midfielder? I agree - he's not. But it's not because he's an attack minded one either. I ask this question in 1 out of 3 Zokora posts: WHAT IS HE??? You can't continue to blame every thing else can you? He's a professional footballer. A midfielder, who has been known to 'hold'. It's not a leap of faith to think he wouldn't be able to maybe adapt to a system - given that he is an International after all. Or is that just more experience of "French" football. [Do you watch the African Nations??] :?
Sorry Stoof, but this bit has really got up my arse! Name me a top team that plays with a flat 4 across the middle? There aren't many, nearly every top team in Europe and the epl play with a man withdrawn and a man ahead, why I hear you ask? Because it allows players to perform specific tasks in specific areas of the field and there are many players who are very strong in some aspects of their position and not in others.
He has the pace to make tackles and break up play. He has very tidy short passing skills, which all footballers should have, and when he wins the ball he can pass it effectively to those who can be more creative.
He also has the Zokora 360 turn, which while predictable and none to pretty to the eye, does more often than not get him out of trouble and helps us to retain possession.
He is also not scared to receive the ball and makes himself available more than Hudd or Jenas.
Huddlestone has none of the above with the exception of his short passing, which although hardly creative is at least accurate. To my mind, if we played a 5 across the middle we would get the best out of Zokora and Huddlestone as well as Jenas.
Most of the things you say Stoof are wrong.
Why do you think it was that some us (and mostly not the lemmings) were defending him last year.
We could actually see that despite his name not being Dawson, he actually did play well most of the time and offered something to a team that had three good cup runs and a 5th finish despite their manager only having one formation, no clue away from home and only 2 pages to his tactics book.
I honestly can't remember a single thread that started with Zokora is the new messiah, so what exactly was this over reaction you felt the need to have ?
Right. So because I think a good young English defender has done amazingly well, seeing as how he was our first choice centre back all of last season playing every game through thick and thin, playing his heart out for the shirt he wears, you think I have no knowledge or understanding of this game?In fact when it comes to footballing matters saying things like "Dawson is our rock" shows what a poo grasp of football you actually have. (Unless you meant it literally of course)
Think you´re both right (B-C and Stoof). Dawson has been perhaps our most overrated player (for me, more than Tainio, Ziegler, Chimbonda, Robbo). People have expressed surprise as to how shaky he has been looking recently.
Well last season he made a big error per game, more often than not resulting in a goal conceded. Yes he played in every game and took some big knocks and kudos for that. But I was never convinced that he was our "player of the season" or anywhere near. This season he has been pretty much as bad/good as last. He´s likeable and tries hard. I like him but am uncertain he will ever make it as a good defender. I´m uncertain he´ll be any better than Calum Davenport in fact. Of course I hope I´m wrong and he probably will improve somewhat but he has a long long way to go.
As for Zokora, the stats make interesting reading sure. He has improved his tackling recently. But, he certainly isn´t an attacking midfielder (1 assist and 0 goals are worse than Robbo´s stats). As a defensive midielder, he doesn´t read the game well at all. He (until very recently) has rarely if ever dominated a midfield.
I think the Liverpool performance was the first good one he put in against a good side. Ok maybe you could argue Chelsea at home last season at a push.
He seems to panic when he has the ball. And until recently, he rarely went looking for it or made himself available. That is such a crucial quality - and he has lacked it (until recently)
Whether or not he is a Carrick replacement plays in the same position but has none of his attributes - slick passing, bravery (to go looking for the ball and taking responsiblilty), positional play. He also is a small lad that is not the asset Carrick was for defending set pieces. Does anyone bother to do his job of heading away corners at the near post?
We have seen the gaping hole between the midfield and defence many a time over the last season, and this. But we´ve also seen a gaping hole between the forwards and the midfield which is puzzling (as other posters have pointed out, the forwards tend to create chances for each other). So goodness knows what our midfield has been doing all this time (this isn´t purely a criticism of Zokoka).
The stats may support him, but, useful though they are they don´t tell the whole story. If we see more of Zokora v Liverpool (and hopefully an improvement on that) then fine. It´s the Everton-type performances that make us shudder.
B-C I´m not slating you, I do actually agree with a lot of your views. You were one of a few who stuck up for Lee from the start (I remember as there weren´t many of us). And you rightly doubted the hero-worship of Dawson and Robbo (long time ago now). But on Zokora, much as I hope to be telling you at the end of the season that you were right, I fear I won´t be.
his biggest problem is perhaps that he isn't brilliant at anything.
Stoof your clueless sometimes. You still think Robinson's a good goal keeper? (I won't be surprised if your the first to start that chant...'Englands Number one bull')
Zokora's a very good player and tbh I'm quite surprised Jol hasn't pitched
Jenas...Huddlestone....Zokora together in the same team.
I have been banging on about 451 for bloody ages. Most of last season especially. We have to ignore the strikers - they are actually part of our defensive problem - certainly away from home we should go 451. We have the perfect playrs to work it and it would get the best out of our midfield. It would offer more protection for our shaky defenders and actually give us more creative outlets than 442 does sometimes (certainly the way Jol plays it). And you can always revert to 442 during the game.
At home you can get away with 442 more often perhaps.
Stoof your clueless sometimes. You still think Robinson's a good goal keeper? (I won't be surprised if your the first to start that chant...'Englands Number one bull')
Zokora's a very good player..
But two games ago he was according you "a pile of wank". If you're to be believed he's changed from being possibly the worst player in the Prem, a midfield equivalent of Marlon Harewood, to actually quite good. It's ridiculous Stoof. DZ is a good player with much to improve on and more to learn.If you look at how I've posted about Zokora, I have actually said he's improved. That doesn't mean he's a good player - it just means he's not as below average as he hit last time around.
Gotcha, logged and filed:razz:I was wrong to be so harsh on Didi, but at least I can say that.
But two games ago he was according you "a pile of wank". If you're to be believed he's changed from being possibly the worst player in the Prem, a midfield equivalent of Marlon Harewood, to actually quite good. It's ridiculous Stoof. DZ is a good player with much to improve on and more to learn.
Gotcha, logged and filed:razz: