West Ham "Rivalry"

[TheBlueRooster]

I have no hatred for West Ham, I just think of them as a funny little club that my granddad (Mum's dad) supported.

As for the Gooners they are our sworn enemy and always will be. Beating them on the way to our CC victory was just as sweet as winning the trophy on the day. Just as it was in '91 we beat Forest in the final, but beating them meant more.

 

[guiltyparty]

Back in the day when crowds were 60 & 70 thousand and there was no football to watch on tv it was inevitable that some people would go to watch 1 team 1 week and another another week just to see football.

IMHO this wasn't a huge number of people and the Bruce's were very much in the minority.

My dad and his mates would never have set foot in the Library unless Spurs were playing, but they would go and watch Orient if they were at home just so they could watch football.

My dad and uncle lived in Haringey and would go one week on, week off. Both supported Spurs.

 

[michaelden]

I've never minded West Ham. I liked Harry and his Droopy and Dripple look.

The only time I thought they (the fans not the club) were twats was when Spurs got knocked out of Europe. A West Ham Fan came to me the following day and said, even though they were losing, when they saw Spurs were knocked out of Europe they cheered. That bugged me a bit.

But then I remembered we're better than them and it didn't bug me any more, just made me sad they couldn't see the light.

 

[SpurSince57]

The only big thing about the Spammers is the chip on their shoulders.

 

[DC_Boy]

it's true the 'bruces' were in the minority but it did happen as this board confirms. I remember my Dad (an arsenal fan)wanted us to get season tickets (in the days when football was cheap and season tickets easily bought) for both clubs - however I just loved watching Spurs so much and so often went to away games too - that it was never gonna happen

 

[AngerManagement]

it's true the 'bruces' were in the minority but it did happen as this board confirms. I remember my Dad (an arsenal fan)wanted us to get season tickets (in the days when football was cheap and season tickets easily bought) for both clubs - however I just loved watching Spurs so much and so often went to away games too - that it was never gonna happen

touche

My old man said be an Arsenal fan and all that...

 

[TheChosenOne]

I'm an old codger too.

Having supported Spurs through thick and thin, home, away, abroad and probably around 600 or so matches in the late sixties,all of the seventies and eighties and some of the nineties I can only repeat what I said earlier in that West Ham are poor relations in the hate department. I don't hate them - I dislike them and pity them.
They have their wins against us but the losses don't hurt.

Having lived in North London and Hertfordshire for most of my life I have made friends with many people who support teams up and down the country, heck I even have one mate who is a proper Fulham supporter.

What I find abhorrent with Arsenal is the fact that although they have been in the ascendancy and at the forefront of English football for nearly twenty years they have a win at all costs attitude and a professional style similar to the hated Leeds side of the sixties and seventies. Recently the club has been playing decent enough football but their supporters are not gracious just triumphalistic.

Out here in Hertford the AFC fans outnumber other supporters no doubt because of their success in the last two decades, but most of the knuckledragging hordes wander around the town having never attended a live football match in their lives
but through the power of Sky and pub football seem to know and let everyone know how great their team is.

I agree Arsenal had some great patches of success like in the thirties (the olden days) but ask many an Arsenal fan about their complete history and they don't know or don't want to know.

I know some of their history, like the barren patches between 1953 to 1970 then 1971 to 1979, then another 8 empty years to 1987.

Arsenal fans biggest fear in my opinion is the revival of a Tottenham challenge to their current squad, for many years in their shadow, we have been coming closer and also had a few false dawns over the years.

Even when Tottenham won the league cup against Leicester in 1999 they hated it and shouted down the Spurs success, like now by demeaning the trophy.

I'm 52 and live and will die supporting my beloved team, take the stick when we cock it up but gladly give it when we have modicums of success.

I have put it before - Arsenal Football club doesn't deserve all its so-called fans, they are mostly just gobby Johnny come lateley's, but West Ham and it's supporters are in my opinion insignificant piss-ants who occasionally trouble us.

 

[TheBlueRooster]

I'm 52 and live and will die supporting my beloved team, take the stick when we cock it up but gladly give it when we have modicums of success.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Have some rep mate.

 

[chinaman]

Now nothing could be worst than the Leeds of Revie. You could have gone to the bookies and placed a winning bet 9 weeks out of 10. 1-0 home wins and 0-0 away picks will see you win money at the end of the season.

 

[DC_Boy]

touche

My old man said be an Arsenal fan and all that...

AM

 

[Stoof]

Ah Kev, I can't give you any rep for that post because I've obviously loved you recently. :wink:

One of the best I've read. :clap:

 

[General Levy]

See, this is the bit that I don't like - suggesting that just because you have a different opinion you 'don't know your club'. There is a perfectly rational argument for this away from any knowledge you may or may not have of the club.

I'm 28, followed Spurs since 1986, supported them properly since 1989/90 season, go to about 10 games a season, watch the rest at home, and I have friendly banter with two Arsenal season ticket holders in my office. There's no hatred there, but that's because any sane person knows that you hate Arsenal the club, not the individuals, because of the history.

However, while an age-old turf war sustains a rivalry, I think it's a fair point that we're not their 'biggest' rivals in the modern age. You're wrong about it having nothing to do with cups and leagues, the very definition of rivals is that they are attempting to achieve the same goals, hence the 'rivalry' between them, and, in addition, should either equal or almost equal each other, keeping that rivalry going. It's in black and white.

While many will say 'well, we're going for the league and the cups, same as them', the realist will point out that while we've been competing for a UEFA Cup place and, not so long ago, a Champions League qualifying spot, their goals are primarily winning the league and the Champions League, something which Man Utd are their biggest rivals for.

I would argue this can be split into a 'turf war' and a 'professional rivalry', which makes both sides right.

See, that's me, doing my impression of Switzerland yet again.

:clap:

FAO Legend10.

 

[Legend10]

:clap:

FAO Legend10.

Guilty party is of course entitled to his opinion and I respect it, however I believe him in the main to be wrong.

Rivalry consists of more than who you are competing against to win trophies and in many cases as with Spurs & Arsenal the trophy side is not where the rivalry is based. If it was just about trophies or results then there would be no rivalry between Bristol City & Bristol Rovers, try telling a fan of 1 of those clubs that rivalry is about the trophies.

How about Southampton and Portsmouth? they've spent half their existances in different divisions and neither of them has won very much period and certainly not in the modern era. But maybe you think that there is no real rivalry between Pompey & Saints because of this? Maybe you should go to a Saints & Pompey game and find out if your right.

Or maybe Blackburn and Burnley aren't rivals because they haven't spent the recent era in the same division? Try telling a fan of one of those clubs that somebody there competing alongside is their real rivals and not Rovers or Burnley. They'll laugh you out of town!

Supporters of all the above mentioned clubs and stacks of others will tell you that real rivalry has nothing to do with what trophies you win or who you are competing with to win them. The teams you are vying with to win a trophy are your competition and not your rivals unless they happen to be 1 and the same.

Rivalry is about pride in your club over the clubs sworn enemy and in Spurs case that is Arsenal and in Arsenal's case that is Spurs. Even if they win a 100 trophies before we win another or if we win a 100 before they win another the fiercist rivals of these 2 clubs will remain the same.

Trophy's when compared against history mean absolutely nothing! We might argue about who won this and who won that but that is by no means the cause or the root of the real rivalry, which in most cases is firmly based on History, location and whether you like it or not tribal allegiance.

The real issue with West ham fans is jealousy, and that jealousy is centred around the fact that they don't have a rivalry with anybody that compares with our rivalry with Arsenal. And they want it, they want so bad to feel that love and hate in equal measure and so they have tried to fabricate a rivalry with Spurs which doesn't really exist because we've already got a massive one which makes the Spammers little more than an irritation to us.

 

[Dougal]

 

[General Levy]

Guilty party is of course entitled to his opinion and I respect it, however I believe him in the main to be wrong.

Rivalry consists of more than who you are competing against to win trophies and in many cases as with Spurs & Arsenal the trophy side is not where the rivalry is based. If it was just about trophies or results then there would be no rivalry between Bristol City & Bristol Rovers, try telling a fan of 1 of those clubs that rivalry is about the trophies.

How about Southampton and Portsmouth? they've spent half their existances in different divisions and neither of them has won very much period and certainly not in the modern era. But maybe you think that there is no real rivalry between Pompey & Saints because of this? Maybe you should go to a Saints & Pompey game and find out if your right.

Or maybe Blackburn and Burnley aren't rivals because they haven't spent the recent era in the same division? Try telling a fan of one of those clubs that somebody there competing alongside is their real rivals and not Rovers or Burnley. They'll laugh you out of town!

Supporters of all the above mentioned clubs and stacks of others will tell you that real rivalry has nothing to do with what trophies you win or who you are competing with to win them. The teams you are vying with to win a trophy are your competition and not your rivals unless they happen to be 1 and the same.

Rivalry is about pride in your club over the clubs sworn enemy and in Spurs case that is Arsenal and in Arsenal's case that is Spurs. Even if they win a 100 trophies before we win another or if we win a 100 before they win another the fiercist rivals of these 2 clubs will remain the same.

Trophy's when compared against history mean absolutely nothing! We might argue about who won this and who won that but that is by no means the cause or the root of the real rivalry, which in most cases is firmly based on History, location and whether you like it or not tribal allegiance.

The real issue with West ham fans is jealousy, and that jealousy is centred around the fact that they don't have a rivalry with anybody that compares with our rivalry with Arsenal. And they want it, they want so bad to feel that love and hate in equal measure and so they have tried to fabricate a rivalry with Spurs which doesn't really exist because we've already got a massive one which makes the Spammers little more than an irritation to us.

Good post. I can see and understand your point. The Pompey Saints analogy is a good one, although they have nothing else down there with regards to other teams (ok, Bournemouth, Torquayetcv...) However, ultimately each rivalry is unique.

The longer we are not challenging for the title + the longer we stay in a 36k stadium = the more and more the rivalry will be diminished - in my mind anyway...

 

[guiltyparty]

The teams you are vying with to win a trophy are your competition and not your rivals unless they happen to be 1 and the same.

You make a lot of fair points L10, but this just isn't true. You are making the word 'rivalry' mean what you want it to mean, rather than what it actually does. We all do it, misappropriate words, but rivalry, by its very definition, means two people competing for a common goal, regardless of the emotional baggage you wish to attach to it.

 

[TheBigMatch]

Never really had anything against West Ham until exposed to the delight on their faces as our food poisoned team lost to them and allowed l'arse to take 4th place on the last day of the 2006 season. A bunch of l'arse lovers.

Not too amused either when my Godson turned to the grey side and defected to West Ham, but I guess it's an Essex thing where your friends are all West Ham.

So yes another 4-nil beating feels good. Another few weeks and we'll climb above them.

 

[BoringOldFan]

Bumping this thread back up to post some stuff nicked from FTL - who in turn got it from a Spammers site:

Here are some facts about two unnamed clubs. Club A and Club B :-

Top 4 finishes

Club A - 29
Club B - 1

Top 3 Finishes

Club A - 14
Club B - 1

Top 2 Finishes

Club A - 9
Club B - 0

Title wins

Club A - 2
Club B - 0

FA Cup wins

Club A - 8
Club B - 3

League Cup wins

Club A - 4
Club B - 0

European Cup best finish

Club A - lost semi final on away goals
Club B - Nowhere near it

UEFA cup

Club A - 2 wins, 1 runner up,
Club B - 0

Cup Winners Cup

Club A - 1 win, 2 semis
Club B - 1 win

Record Attendance

Club A - 75,038 against Sunderland
Club B - 42,322 against Club A

Which would you say is the bigger club?

Case closed I'd say!

 

[stevenqoz]

Never really had a reason to hate West Ham. They play football regardless if they are good or bad. A bloke at work brought up their 4-0 losses in a row so I mentioned the old West Ham come down with the xmas lights joke. What is there to hate? They always seemed a smaller version of us and a bigger version of Orient. All these clubs are usually seen as good guys who play the game the right way. Also had some run ins with West Ham but then it was my own fault for being with 50 Spurs fans in their end in 1970

 

[TheBigMatch]

See, this is the bit that I don't like - suggesting that just because you have a different opinion you 'don't know your club'. There is a perfectly rational argument for this away from any knowledge you may or may not have of the club.

I'm 28, followed Spurs since 1986, supported them properly since 1989/90 season, go to about 10 games a season, watch the rest at home, and I have friendly banter with two Arsenal season ticket holders in my office. There's no hatred there, but that's because any sane person knows that you hate Arsenal the club, not the individuals, because of the history.

However, while an age-old turf war sustains a rivalry, I think it's a fair point that we're not their 'biggest' rivals in the modern age. You're wrong about it having nothing to do with cups and leagues, the very definition of rivals is that they are attempting to achieve the same goals, hence the 'rivalry' between them, and, in addition, should either equal or almost equal each other, keeping that rivalry going. It's in black and white.

While many will say 'well, we're going for the league and the cups, same as them', the realist will point out that while we've been competing for a UEFA Cup place and, not so long ago, a Champions League qualifying spot, their goals are primarily winning the league and the Champions League, something which Man Utd are their biggest rivals for.

I would argue this can be split into a 'turf war' and a 'professional rivalry', which makes both sides right.

See, that's me, doing my impression of Switzerland yet again.

Methinks the fact that between 1992 and 2005 l'arse were much more successful than Spurs has clouded your perception and sent you into denial.

Prior to that Spurs were game for game with l'arse. Spurs being more successful in the Cups, while l'arse had a better record in the league.

While the likes of Everton may compete against us for position in the League more often, and perhaps it could be said for the number of trophies won, l'arse are the true rivals.

Competition against the teams around us in the league is only temporary. Competition against l'arse is a hundred year war. While financially Spurs are doing very well financially (thanks to good financial managers) l'arse have the edge in recent time with regard to attracting fans. The whinger has been successful in turning boring boring arsenal into a side that plays good football. They have also pulled way ahead in terms of ground capacity (30,000 per week). If Spurs do not respond with say a 50,000 capacity very good athmosphere type stadium then more and more kids will turn to the darkside and support l'arse over Spurs.

Continued success in Europe is also a priority. Winning the UEFA Cup is a must. Many foreign fans support Spurs due to our past glorious European history where we still have an edge over l'arse. I would say that winning the UEFA Cup is more important than competing in the Champions League;a cup last longer than the extra money available from the "Champions" League.

The rivalry with West Ham is on a smaller scale and long may it remain so. L'arse are our main rivals. Hopefully in the next few years Spurs will also be the l'arse's main competitors.

Back on May 7th 2006 while West Ham were beating our team 2-1, while they puked and dumped their way though a case of viral gastroenteritis, it was l'arse that were our rivals and competition on that day. While l'arse finally stole our 6 month held 4th spot, West Ham were merely a stinking l'arse loving strain of viral gastroenteritis.