The Spurs Youth Thread - 2018/19

[@Bobby__Lucky]

Quite surprised by this. His abiltiy to thread a ball and create chance has always been better than Winks for comparison. Unless you're thinking of passing in terms of spraying the ball about then I would agree he's not that great at that but he's average. He also has shown more than enough flair for a CM, I've seen skills from him, again for comparison as that is the the point @kremlyn, more than I've ever seen WInks. People are rewriting thinks in their mind due to what they're seeing now. There isn't one youth watcher I've ever spoken to that would have said that Winks is technically better than Onomah or a better player in general pre 20. This is coming from a guy that has been advocating that Winks should have been in the first team squad when he was 19 as he was clearly talented. I don't remember people claiming Winks was a better technician when Onomah was playing against Monaco as a skinny 18 year old. Winks' game hasn't actually changed both technically and in style. So I don't know why people are changing their tune on a very fair point. It's also why I'm surprised when people say that Winks needs to start creating more chances or believe he has the ability to. He never really did that for the academy, so expecting him to do something in the PL that he wasn't doing against u18s is a bit of a stretch, though it would be great to see, and I'm sure coaching can help with that.

While I made the same judgement did when kremlyn made his point, his explanation has been fair. Onomah has always been better at carrying the ball, especially with his head up, taking the ball on the half term into space and quick, slick one touch passing around the box, and ability to thread a pass. For balance, the more technical side of the game I feel Winks was stronger, was turning out of trouble due to his lower centre of gravity however both of their long passing is quite standard though Winks has improved recently and he holds onto the ball less and looks to keep it moving, however he is more than good enough to a carry it. There is a reason why Onomah has been a consistent member of England's most successful age group ever, while Winks rarely featured for his. However, Winks has always excelled more than Onomah, in his workrate, tenacity, consistency and reliability that's no bad thing at all and are all excellent qualities and are essentially the reason Winks is playing first team and not Onomah. It's also the reason why Skipp will likely play first team, and why we struggle to bring through players no matter how talented if they don't possess those traits. Yet not every player that has ever come through for their club, possess those qualities. This is where I think the PL has a problem, and managers aren't really managing academy players. They're taking the easiest to work with, and even then, still not getting chances, so what chance does anyone else have. Rather than working with players with different mental skills and traits and trying to coach and bring them through they instead take the easy option and talent falls by the wayside. It's hardly great management if you can only bring through one type of player ever. It's not like the first team are full of players with all the similar level of the traits above, it seems it's only really the academy players. Someone like Alli was massively criticised for his lack of reliability, i.e giving the ball away and consistency but he has come on leaps and bounds in that area. He was fortunate enough though to come through a club where they couldn't afford to ignore his talent and accepted the rough with the smooth. 'Fortunately' as a well-off club we don't have to do that and can buy those ready made, but it just means not a lot of coaching or development is done and talent is lost. Again that's a PL thing.

Re: Onomah he has maybe had his confidence and ability stifled due to a lack of progression, but he hasn't completely lost it as demonstrated when he plays for England with other talented players, but due to the qualities he lacks, he struggles in the Championship and will be made the scapegoat too. This isn't a surprise to those who said for ages they do not believe Onomah would work well on a loan, but ended up accepting it as he needed some football at some point in his life, however noone had a problem with Winks going on a potential loan as his style would fit anywhere. Hard worker, safe and reliable . Onomah won't come through here, but he definitely would be looking a lot better at another club. Again to return to the point above, while Edwards hasn't been putting away his chances he did look really good. The fact that he wasn't playing in the Championship due to an 'attitude problem' but was then being played in Excelsior is a perfect example of how different coaches/managers interpret and manage players with different behaviours, or don't have the option to not go with someone so give them a chance. Onomah would definitely be at a completely different stage in his career if he was in a different country.

I dont think people are rewriting their minds as you put it. Winks has progressed and demonstrated his ability. Onomah hasn't. Who they were 3 years ago matters only to youth football. In man's football winks is by far ahead in demonstrating what he can do.

We can talk about winks not featuring for his age group with onomah appearing at every age. But Winks is a full international having marked his debut with a mom award.

I really hope Josh gets it together, but he's always been timid in his appearances with us and shown little of his qualities. I've only caught the skills shows in clips that have made it on to here of his loan spells, but in a spurs shirt there is little impact at being a player who is gunuinely competing for a first team place as winks has done.

 

[IGSpur]

I dont think people are rewriting their minds as you put it. Winks has progressed and demonstrated his ability. Onomah hasn't. Who they were 3 years ago matters only to youth football. In man's football winks is by far ahead in demonstrating what he can do.

We can talk about winks not featuring for his age group with onomah appearing at every age. But Winks is a full international having marked his debut with a mom award.

I really hope Josh gets it together, but he's always been timid in his appearances with us and shown little of his qualities. I've only caught the skills shows in clips that have made it on to here of his loan spells, but in a spurs shirt there is little impact at being a player who is gunuinely competing for a first team place as winks has done.

Well the point was who has more technical ability. Winks hasn't changed, Onomah hasn't changed, though his confidence appears to have taken a knock. I'm not disputing who's gone further in their career, as kremlyn put it's more than technical ability that matters, and especially here, it's more how much running around you will do, and work rate that will get you the in the managers mind for you to then show your ability.

I'm sure the timidness he has demonstrated has no doubt been to playing in completely unfamiliar positions, so I don't think anyone should be surprised by that. Fortunately Winks has had all his chances in CM due to his workrate and safe nature, and as I've said before unsurprisingly Skipp also got his minutes in his favourite position. When you play there it's easier to show why you're a decent player. Stick Winks/Skipp on for 5mins as a striker and the narrative around them would be different

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

Well the point was who has more technical ability. Winks hasn't changed, Onomah hasn't changed, though his confidence appears to have taken a knock. I'm not disputing who's gone further in their career, as kremlyn put it's more than technical ability that matters, and especially here, it's more how much running around you will do, and work rate that will get you the in the managers mind for you to then show your ability.

I'm sure the timidness he has demonstrated has no doubt been to playing in completely unfamiliar positions, so I don't think anyone should be surprised by that. Fortunately Winks has had all his chances in CM due to his workrate and safe nature, and as I've said before unsurprisingly Skipp also got his minutes in his favourite position. When you play there it's easier to show why you're a decent player. Stick Winks/Skipp on for 5mins as a striker and the narrative around them would be different

Yes the point was that onomah was technically the best cm at the club.

My counter was that onomah hasn't shown that. I chose winks in comparrison as they are roughly at the same stage. In addition I mentioned the varying midfield positions winks has played. Onomah played in varying midfield positions at spurs but hasn't shown his technical superiority. In demonstration which to me is what matters winks is superior both technically and as a footballer.

 

[Tottenhamboy85]

From Poch press conference

How proud were you to be able to bring Oliver Skipp on and produce another Premier League player from Spurs' academy?
With Oliver it's only about time. If he is capable of working how he's working and doing in the future the energy and he's behaving now, I think his future will be bright. We were thinking in the last few months to give him the opportunity to play in the Premier League but for different things it wasn't possible. I think he's a player that we believe a lot in and I hope that he continues growing. For sure, he will be, I hope and wish, a great player for this club.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

i always refer back to this when people wheel out the old if you can't cut it in the championship then you'll never make it in the pl line. no it doesn't mean that onomah(or whoever) will therefore go the same way as those mentioned in the video above but it does show that football is hardly a perfect science.

Yes, but it was because Danny learnt his lessons and was mentally strong. Fingers crossed, Onomah is the same.

 

[kmk]

Morgan Gibbs-White made his first start for Wolves today and seems to play in a very similar style to Marcus Edwards.

He is one year younger than Edwards but he seems to be a lot stronger.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

Morgan Gibbs-White made his first start for Wolves today and seems to play in a very similar style to Marcus Edwards.

He is one year younger than Edwards but he seems to be a lot stronger.

Not sure if they're anything alike to be honest, but I'm a big fan of Gibbs-White. He's playing with no fear and a lot of ability.

 

[Tottenhamboy85]

Morgan Gibbs-White made his first start for Wolves today and seems to play in a very similar style to Marcus Edwards.

He is one year younger than Edwards but he seems to be a lot stronger.

He’s nothing like Edwards imo

 

[guru]

Very happy to see Oliver Skipp playing premier league tonight , hopefully he won’t be another KWP

 

[kmk]

Not sure if they're anything alike to be honest, but I'm a big fan of Gibbs-White. He's playing with no fear and a lot of ability.

He’s nothing like Edwards imo

They both looked like tricky players with great dribbling and control of the ball in tight spaces.

They also play with their heads up and can spot a pass but MGW seems a lot stronger than Edwards.

 

[coys200]

Actually spotted Gibbs- white in the U17 World Cup. Even though he was a sub was obvious there was something about him. For me this reinforces my feeling with young players it should be obvious within 10 minutes if they are decent like sancho Hudson greenwood etc. For me if you have to deliberate over a player for months it’s likely they just won’t be top draw. Yeah maybe make it as a squad player like a Carroll or mason but they won’t be elite. Anyway GW just likes to run at people and from CM that’s quite rare. Not sure if he will end up in CM but can’t think of too many English comparisons. Closest currently I’d say is OX but he GW is much more nimble.

 

[Roy's Racers]

Sorry but winks is possibly the best technical player at the club alongside eriksen.

I think in terms of technique (touch, ball manipulation and passing range) Demeble, Toby, Jan and Trippier are more advanced. Winks is getting better, but your reaching to settle a debate if you think he's currently technically one if the best in this squad.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Actually spotted Gibbs- white in the U17 World Cup. Even though he was a sub was obvious there was something about him. For me this reinforces my feeling with young players it should be obvious within 10 minutes if they are decent like sancho Hudson greenwood etc. For me if you have to deliberate over a player for months it’s likely they just won’t be top draw. Yeah maybe make it as a squad player like a Carroll or mason but they won’t be elite. Anyway GW just likes to run at people and from CM that’s quite rare. Not sure if he will end up in CM but can’t think of too many English comparisons. Closest currently I’d say is OX but he GW is much more nimble.

i doubt you'd have picked out many of our current first team when they were 17, also notice how the players you list are all quick, direct players who like to dribble, they will always be the easiest to catch the eye. you've also said a few times that you don't really see the fuss with skipp so i guess we'll see how that goes.

 

[razzmaster]

Actually spotted Gibbs- white in the U17 World Cup. Even though he was a sub was obvious there was something about him. For me this reinforces my feeling with young players it should be obvious within 10 minutes if they are decent like sancho Hudson greenwood etc. For me if you have to deliberate over a player for months it’s likely they just won’t be top draw. Yeah maybe make it as a squad player like a Carroll or mason but they won’t be elite. Anyway GW just likes to run at people and from CM that’s quite rare. Not sure if he will end up in CM but can’t think of too many English comparisons. Closest currently I’d say is OX but he GW is much more nimble.

It doesn't take a genius to spot the elite players, it's the less flashy players that require more skill and patience. Players like Kane, Rose and Winks would probably have been written off based on your logic

 

[coys200]

i doubt you'd have picked out many of our current first team when they were 17, also notice how the players you list are all quick, direct players who like to dribble, they will always be the easiest to catch the eye. you've also said a few times that you don't really see the fuss with skipp so i guess we'll see how that goes.

Yeah possibly agree regarding quick wow players. And I’ve never said anything of the sort about Skipp. I’m very optimistic about him.

 

[Spurzinho]

I haven't seen a lot of Gibbs-White but one thing he seems to have that Edwards never had is a change of pace. Whenever I saw Edwards as a kid the things that always worried me were (1) his size and (2) his lack of pace. Yes, he had absolutely beautiful ball control and that delicious low centre of gravity that lets him squeeze past players but you have to try and imagine him in a tactical system as a senior against grown men. As we've seen in the Netherlands, Edwards struggles to get away from players which is why play can often break down with him. If he doesn't draw the foul then he's a sitting duck for a turnover.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

I think in terms of technique (touch, ball manipulation and passing range) Demeble, Toby, Jan and Trippier are more advanced. Winks is getting better, but your reaching to settle a debate if you think he's currently technically one if the best in this squad.

No we are countering @kremlyn saying that onomah is technically the best CM at the club.

Winks has been bought up as a comparrison only. But I feel he has shown he is technically better. Potential is nothing unless it is shown. Onomah has shown little.

Your comparrisons of dembele who has outrageous dribbling skills but is not the same level of passer as winks nowhere near. Jan Toby and trippier can all pass a ball but from deeper positions with more time. Aren't really relevant as the conversation is about who is technically the best midfielder at the club. 3 of who you mention are defenders and one is a dribble specialist. But not a passer.

Ive used winks as a comparrison, but both eriksen and alli are far better technically than onomah. Onomah hasn't shown that he's even in the conversation. Winks has. Potential is meaningless without demonstration.

 

[allpaths]

Biggest difference between Josh and Winks, are their mentalities. Winks has turned himself into a consistent competator, who if he's not on his passing game, can be relied upon to put in a shift.

Josh if he's not running the show is a liability on the pitch atm. It's not because of a lack of talent. He maybe 21 and physically mature, but it takes some people a lot longer to mature mentally. To be able to concentrate and to gain composure.Josh has all of the base ingredients we just need to remain patient with him and put him in a better position to grow.

 

[Blake Griffin]

And I’ve never said anything of the sort about Skipp. I’m very optimistic about him.

…….

I know I’ll get horribly shot down for this. And this opinion isn’t just based on today. Probably seen Skipp play 5-10 times and can only remember 1 game I was really impressed think It was Dortmund or Real Madrid this year. I know he is very highly regarded but I’m struggling to see it. For sure there’s lots of endeavour. But I feel he’s going end up a bit of a Mark noble type player. Hopefully be a bit more Scott Parker but that’s how I see him. Obviously he’s only 17 but I’m really not seeing the hype right now. Loooking forward to being proved wrong though.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

…….

Love it when people are exposed.