The ousting of Daniel (COYS)

[chas vs dave]

What is 'us' though? Is it where the main focus is on playing entertaining football?

It's interesting, I accidentally listened to Rory Jennings.

He said something which I never thought I'd hear him say. He was talking about Spurs, and he openly said that spurs fans are the only group of fans in the league who have a particular type of football as an identity.

So, playing a particular way is important, to me anyway. Personally, this season was about regaining identity and a level of enjoyment for me.

Results and where we end up are secondary right now. Bar fulham, it's been a great start.

 

[vegassd]

Some good points here

I think the basic issue is Levy has been unable to get his head around the inflation in transfer fees and what “value” represents in the current market

yet he he is happy to massively overvalue the club and our own players

which suggests despite his academic pedigree he doesn’t grasp basics like Supply and demand when acting as a buyer and only as a seller

For me, the conspiracy thinking that Levy doesn't grasp economic basics is wrong and shuts down the conversation. My own take would be that running a football club extends way beyond the basics, and it's more likely that us fans don't understand the economic machinery at work.

I do agree with the idea that Levy hasn't moved with the times, and in a pretty extreme way. But I think it's way more nuanced than him not understanding supply and demand, so let's talk about that rather than throwing cheap insults. That would be my point of view.

If we cast our minds back to the "good old days" before Abramovich, I think the idea of spending within our means and increasing revenues to be able to spend and compete more is a solid plan. But through Abramovich, then City, then Saudi influence, and now Boehly, that plan looks really weak. And my biggest criticism would be that Levy has (seemingly) not moved away from that plan even slightly.

It's like the whole strategy is relying on FFP measures to bite hard, which is a reasonable long-term strategy but is incredibly passive. And of course it's the fans who have to "suffer" through the waiting period. I also think that Boehly has more or less destroyed FFP by showing it can be circumvented by adding huge financial risk to a club... the exact thing FFP is meant to avoid. The rules will have to be re-written, and clubs will receive a new 3-4 year grace period in which to find the new loopholes. That's my opinion anyway.

As fans, I think we can also be guilty of benchmarking ourselves against whatever the flavour of the month is, rather than being consistent. That's totally understandable, but also undermines our collective thinking somewhat. For example, we had this £400m FFP headroom quoted a few years ago, and I think some fans set that as a benchmark for what we should be spending, despite the club posting losses for the last 2 years. That isn't me defending Levy there... just saying again that running a club is more financially complicated than a lot of fans appreciate.

 

[alfie103]

It's interesting, I accidentally listened to Rory Jennings.

He said something which I never thought I'd hear him say. He was talking about Spurs, and he openly said that spurs fans are the only group of fans in the league who have a particular type of football as an identity.

So, playing a particular way is important, to me anyway. Personally, this season was about regaining identity and a level of enjoyment for me.

Results and where we end up are secondary right now. Bar fulham, it's been a great start.

I find this attitude strange myself. I support Tottenham because I want Tottenham to do well. If my main focus was entertainment, I would just watch whatever team played the best football and not care who won or lost.

 

[Japhet]

What can anyone really do though. If people stop going there's thousands more trip advisor tourists to take their place. Protests won't make a blind but of difference to the ENIC goal of increasing the personal wealth of Daniel and Joe. If Daniel can't already see that he's fucking abysmal at running the football team after a literal generation of evidence, it's not like he's suddenly going to have an epiphany.

We live in a dictatorship and nothing any of the supporters do or say will make a scintilla of difference to what Daniel does with the club. Even if someone bid well over the odds of what the club is worth I still don't think he'd sell because he's addicted to the status it affords him. I could easily see him running THFC for another couple of decades, or until he physically cannot do it any more. Every year that passes, as the PL gets bigger, his wealth increases.

That's the whole nature of supply and demand. Market forces dictate the price and as long as there are enough willing takers, the price continues to escalate. Football in general has become a corporate entity and is governed by it's own market. I was priced out of live football donkeys years ago but TV coverage is absolutely fine by me. I may miss out on the atmosphere but I also miss out on all the other shit that goes with it.

 

[chas vs dave]

I find this attitude strange myself. I support Tottenham because I want Tottenham to do well. If my main focus was entertainment, I would just watch whatever team played the best football and not care who won or lost.

I want tottenham to do well, however it takes me 3 hours to get to every game. I've been doing it for over 23 years, if we bought in another conte, I would just stop going.

It's supposed to be entertaining.

 

[alfie103]

I want tottenham to do well, however it takes me 3 hours to get to every game. I've been doing it for over 23 years, if we bought in another conte, I would just stop going.

It's supposed to be entertaining.

If entertainment is your main priority, why not possibly go to watch another team play who play attractive football. It might also be easier to get to and may be cheaper?

 

[Metalhead]

I find this attitude strange myself. I support Tottenham because I want Tottenham to do well. If my main focus was entertainment, I would just watch whatever team played the best football and not care who won or lost.

I read this as him saying that at the moment, it's nice just to be entertained whilst Ange is building something. Ange will need to get results - just playing entertaining football won't cut it. Ange has been very clear about his desire to win to be fair.

 

[KaribYid]

‘Potentially surpass us’ is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. We’ll see how their addressing of shortcomings goes by the end of the season, because I really wouldn't be surprised if they're below us by the end.

The last four years were entirely us trying to address our shortcomings by hiring expensive managers and completely sacrificing how we want to play to try and win. I'm not saying this is what you're doing at all but this is my issue with the anti-ENIC wave: despite the obvious mistakes they've made (there's been plenty), they seem to be this shapeless entity that can be blamed for everything (usually after we lose a game). Levy can't both have rested on his laurels *and* hired Mourinho/Conte; he can't have not invested in the club *and* bought in Ndombele, Reguilon, Lo Celso etc who are now the "deadwood" we can't shift because their wages are too high.

When you put it like that, you're right - he can't do those things simultaneously.

What this does (and to be honest, it's my frustration with the defenders of Levy) is leaves out the contexts that joins these seemingly paradoxical points together.

He rested on his laurels when we never strengthened the squad under Poch past the first XI.
In doing so, the squad became stale and rather than gradually rebuilding window after window, we needed a big overhaul of the squad.
That wasn't possible as we couldn't shift players like Jan, Aurier, Rose but he still spent big money bringing in Ndombele, Lo Celso etc. And credit to him for that.
He then made that big spending pretty much useless by firing the manager that asked for these specific players two months after bringing them in and hiring a manager that had a completely different style of play. These big money purchases were totally unsuited to how Mourinho wanted to play. That's down to the lack of coherent football strategy which is by far my biggest issue with Levy.
Mourinho and Conte were signs of ambition, yes. But if you bring these managers in, you have to back them in a way that this club has never (and seemingly will never) operate. We didn't do that. A key part of having a strategy is being able to identify talent (manager and player) who fits within that strategy. We didn't do that, which again, pretty much made these hires useless. People think Conte only wanted big money signings but if you listened to him while he was here, the disconnect wasn't over the value of the players we signed, it was the profile. We've always brought in predominantly young players and at times spend big money to do so. Conte wanted to spend this money on older, experience players. He would want us to spend (and I'm theorising here) 40m on a proven 28/29 year old when Levy would rather spend it that same amount but on a 22 year old.
I actually agree with Levy on that policy but again, you dont bring in a manager who doesn't suit.

I'm rambling a bit but my point is the criticisms aren't as inconsistent as you make it seem in your post, rather, the stripping away of the context and timeline of events is what makes them seem so.

 

[Cambridge Spur]

Try this instead: You can’t have a Spurs shirt because it’s cheap tack that you pay 90 pounds for, just for the privilege of walking around with a bunch of ads plastered all over you. It’s a scam.

Ok mate, I’ll pass that on

 

[Colonel Dax]

I 100% agree with this but where we probably differ is that I see a move to rectify that with Paratici, Munn and most importantly Ange. The transfers seem to have moved more towards what we've done well in the past

I hope you're right

 

[KingNick]

You can do the little things. Don’t by new Spurs gear. Don’t spend your money at the ground in the bars and eateries. I saved £3 a pint by drinking in the local pubs. If 60000 did the same it would soon get his attention.

But you’re never getting 60,000 people to do that. You’d struggle to get 10,000 I reckon for all sorts of reasons not least finding pubs capable of taking in 60,0000 extra punters.

And with the economics of the stadium these small protests don’t touch the sides.

it may sound defeatist, but unfortunately it’s the reality.

Levy will stay until someone gives him the money he wants to not be here anymore.

(saving £3 also depends what you drink. Cheapest lager in the Bell is now £8)

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I 100% agree with this but where we probably differ is that I see a move to rectify that with Paratici, Munn and most importantly Ange. The transfers seem to have moved more towards what we've done well in the past

Our signings and approach the last 6-9 months have looked a lot better.

The fact remains to be seen today have we learnt any lessons about leaving a lot of business to the last minute.

Anything other than bare minimum a CB and WF/ST and we will be left short YET AGAIN and that is simply not acceptable having sold our record goalscorer for £100mil over 3 weeks ago.

We need to finally give a manager a chance to succeed and not hamstring them over and over.

Today will show a lot in terms of if a leopard can change their spots or not, I’d wager on not.

 

[alfie103]

I read this as him saying that at the moment, it's nice just to be entertained whilst Ange is building something. Ange will need to get results - just playing entertaining football won't cut it. Ange has been very clear about his desire to win to be fair.

Yes you are correct. I didn't read it properly. Apologies for the mistake.

 

[chas vs dave]

If entertainment is your main priority, why not possibly go to watch another team play who play attractive football. It might also be easier to get to and may be cheaper?

Based on your logic, If winning is more important, then why don't you chose to support someone else? Did you chose to deliberately be condescending?

I'm a spurs fan. So why would I chose to go and watch someone else?

I was at 2 cup final wins, 98/99 was nowhere near 16/17. We won a trophy in one of those seasons. I know which one I preferred.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Our signings and approach the last 6-9 months have looked a lot better.

The fact remains to be seen today have we learnt any lessons about leaving a lot of business to the last minute.

Anything other than bare minimum a CB and WF/ST and we will be left short YET AGAIN and that is simply not acceptable having sold our record goalscorer for £100mil over 3 weeks ago.

We need to finally give a manager a chance to succeed and not hamstring them over and over.

Today will show a lot in terms of if a leopard can change their spots or not, I’d wager on not.

I don't agree but that's just my onions. We need to consistently mine the quality we're after and backing the manager to me isn't just getting all the players in at once but understanding that the manager doesn't have all be needs and taking that into account. Chopping and changing squad and managers is a recipe for lack of success.
That lot down the road have shown a blueprint on how to do that. Ange has enough to work with this season imho

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I don't agree but that's just my onions. We need to consistently mine the quality we're after and backing the manager to me isn't just getting all the players in at once but understanding that the manager doesn't have all be needs and taking that into account. Chopping and changing squad and managers is a recipe for lack of success.
That lot down the road have shown a blueprint on how to do that. Ange has enough to work with this season imho

Respectfully the cup exit showed our squad depth isn’t good enough still.

 

[chas vs dave]

Respectfully the cup exit showed our squad depth isn’t good enough still.

I think we have decent depth to make 4 or 5 team changes, not 9.

Even pep doesn't make 9 changes.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Respectfully the cup exit showed our squad depth isn’t good enough still.

But you can't turn it over all at once. Some of those players will still do a job in our best team, i.e. like Dav did but they do need moving on. Evolution rather than revolution

 

[thelak]

Based on your logic, If winning is more important, then why don't you chose to support someone else? Did you chose to deliberately be condescending?

I'm a spurs fan. So why would I chose to go and watch someone else?

I was at 2 cup final wins, 98/99 was nowhere near 16/17. We won a trophy in one of those seasons. I know which one I preferred.

I still picture that Alan Nielsen header in my dreams

 

[chas vs dave]

I still picture that Alan Nielsen header in my dreams

I can't, and I was there.