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Team vs Manchester City: Carabao Cup Final 2021

Neon_Knight_

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2011
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I'd love for Lamela to start but I also worry that Lamela v City in cup final = early yellow card written all over it. Given the tenacity he plays with and the recklessness of some of his challenges that could give us a huge problem.
He's only been sent off once in 8 years. Statistically, he may well be our least likely player to get sent off (despite his "tenacity" and "recklessness"), and is more likely to cause an opposition player to get sent off than himself.
 

YB123

YB123
Aug 27, 2006
6,077
21,849
I think Ndombele and Lo Celso in a midfield 3 will get eaten alive. Personally think one will have to be sacrificed for a winks/sissoko unfortunately.
 

punky

Gone
Sep 23, 2008
7,485
5,403
2 things. 1) Hart!? 2)how could you want to see that midfield 3 after today?
LOL I meant to say Lloris. Really no idea why I said Hart.

Regarding the midfield, on paper they are our 3 best out-and-out midfielders so have to go with that. Winks is too reckless and I suppose could play Lamela on the wing instead of Lo Celso but he links to push too far forward.
 

Neon_Knight_

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2011
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LOL I meant to say Lloris. Really no idea why I said Hart.

Regarding the midfield, on paper they are our 3 best out-and-out midfielders so have to go with that. Winks is too reckless and I suppose could play Lamela on the wing instead of Lo Celso but he links to push too far forward.
You must subconsciously want Hart to play. :p
 

chrissivad

Staff
May 20, 2005
51,646
58,072
He's only been sent off once in 8 years. Statistically, he may well be our least likely player to get sent off (despite his "tenacity" and "recklessness"), and is more likely to cause an opposition player to get sent off than himself.

He is one of the highest at picking up yellow cards though (this season anyway, but I'm sure it would be similar for other seasons)

This season he picks up a red every 637 mins.
Doherty is 1142

Yellow cards it's one every 169.3mins.
Lo Celso 146.2 then it's Vinicius and Winks

Hojbjerg is one every 424.3.


Lloris
Aurier Toby Dier Reguilon
Hojbjerg ????
Bale Ndombele Son
Kane
Cm... Winks, lo Celso or Lamela (he would close down everyone, just not sure he has the discipline to play at cm)
 

Nebby

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2013
3,363
6,377
Lloris;
Aurier - Toby - Dier - Reguilon;
Sissoko - PEH - Winks;
Son - Dele;
Bale (or Kane if fit).
 

Neon_Knight_

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2011
4,026
6,739
He is one of the highest at picking up yellow cards though (this season anyway, but I'm sure it would be similar for other seasons)

This season he picks up a red every 637 mins.
Doherty is 1142

Yellow cards it's one every 169.3mins.
Lo Celso 146.2 then it's Vinicius and Winks

Hojbjerg is one every 424.3.


Lloris
Aurier Toby Dier Reguilon
Hojbjerg ????
Bale Ndombele Son
Kane
Cm... Winks, lo Celso or Lamela (he would close down everyone, just not sure he has the discipline to play at cm)
The number of yellow cards it irrelevant if the player has a long track record of not picking up a second yellow (that has happened only once and was for an infringement that players do not normally receive a yellow card for).

Considering he has been sent off once in total, his total playing time should be factored in, not only his playing time this season. Otherwise it is 'cherry picking' to skew the stats in favour your preferred view. It's not like his aggression or level of risk taking has changed this season. He shouldn't even have been sent off and similar incidents have been unpunished (or not even deemed a foul) in most matches this season (before and after his sending off) - even a lot of football pundits and fans with no Spurs bias agree with that and have commented on it repeatedly in recent weeks as numerous similar incidents have arisen.

Red cards in the last 8 years (where equal number, I have ranked by playing time):
1) Aurier - 4
2) Doherty - 3
3) Son - 3
4) Hojbjerg - 2
5) Bale - 2
6) Sissoko - 2
7) Lloris - 2
8) Bergwijn - 1
9) Sanchez - 1
10) Lamela - 1
11) Dele - 1
Everyone else has avoided a red card in the last 8 years.

If Lamela is too high risk to play, we need to drop at least 10 of our players (Dele has played marginally more than Lamela, so perhaps his red card doesn't make him too high risk haha!). Looks like Hart, Davies, Vinicius and Scarlett will have to play, so we don't get anyone sent off. :rolleyes:
 
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chrissivad

Staff
May 20, 2005
51,646
58,072
The number of yellow cards it irrelevant if the player has a long track record of not picking up a second yellow (that has happened only once and was for an infringement that players do not normally receive a yellow card for).

Considering he has been sent off once in total, his total playing time should be factored in, not only his playing time this season. Otherwise it is 'cherry picking' to skew the stats in favour your preferred view. It's not like his aggression or level of risk taking has changed this season. He shouldn't even have been sent off and similar incidents have been unpunished (or not even deemed a foul) in most matches this season (before and after his sending off) - even a lot of football pundits and fans with no Spurs bias agree with that and have commented on it repeatedly in recent weeks as numerous similar incidents have arisen.

Red cards in the last 8 years (where equal number, I have ranked by playing time):
1) Aurier - 4
2) Doherty - 3
3) Son - 3
4) Hojbjerg - 2
5) Bale - 2
6) Sissoko - 2
7) Lloris - 2
8) Bergwijn - 1
9) Sanchez - 1
10) Lamela - 1
11) Dele - 1
Everyone else has avoided a red card in the last 8 years.

If Lamela is too high risk to play, we need to drop at least 10 of our players (Dele has played marginally more than Lamela, so perhaps his red card doesn't make him too high risk haha!). Looks like Hart, Davies, Vinicius and Scarlett will have to play, so we don't get anyone sent off. :rolleyes:

Yellow cards aren't irrelevant if you have to take him off so he doesn't pick up a second one.
That's why I pulled up stats on mins played per yellow card.
 

Neon_Knight_

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2011
4,026
6,739
Yellow cards aren't irrelevant if you have to take him off so he doesn't pick up a second one.
That's why I pulled up stats on mins played per yellow card.
Yellow cards aren't irrelevant if you have to take him off so he doesn't pick up a second one.
That's why I pulled up stats on mins played per yellow card.
On a very large majority of the occasions that he has been booked, Lamela has either completed the game or been subbed off a long time after being booked - in the latter stages when a player who presses as energetically as him would routinely be replaced by fresh legs irrespective of yellow cards (e.g. booked in the first half and subbed off in the 75th minute).

Conversely to how you're trying to use the yellow card stats to show he's a liability, I believe these stats actually strongly evidence that he's very good at managing himself while on a yellow and is therefore a low risk for getting sent off. If you really want to use stats to back up your argument on this, you'd need to work out how many minutes he has played while on a yellow (it's a high number) to number of second bookings received (one) and then compare that to the same information for other players. I don't think it would show what you think/hope though.

At the end of the day, other players in the squad who are in contention to start the final have received both more straight reds and more second yellows than Lamela (per minute, per game and in total). Therefore, either Lamela isn't high risk or other first team players are even higher risk - whichever way you look at it, I don't see how it justifies Lamela being the one player left out due to risk of being sent off.

To keep things lighthearted:
Lamela is statistically twice as likely to score a rabona as get sent off. :D
 
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daveduvet

Well-Known Member
Oct 6, 2008
5,625
15,299
Sees people picking Winks and Sissoko, rubs eyes, leaves
I hear you. But N’dombele had his hands on his hips within the first ten minutes last night. When he’s good he’s very good, but when he’s bad.... maybe Lamela along side Peh and glc ? Our man mason has a tough call to make
 

Neon_Knight_

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2011
4,026
6,739
It seems not many people think Lamela should start. Aside from the intensity that he brings to the whole team, in 11 games against City he has 5 goals and assists (2 goals, 3 assists).
 

Hoddle1982

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2019
67
298
Yes, I would also rather start Winks over Ndombele. Yes, Winks has struggled, but Ndombele is an embarrassment of a central midfielder. Jogs and ambles around like he’s some midfield maestro? Spends most of his time rolling around faking injury. Useless.. To be fair alot of our players are useless. I could tear into most of them.
Anyway, my team for Sunday... COYS?

Lloris; Tanganga, Alderweireld, Dier, Reguilon; Hojbjerg, Winks, Lo Celso; Bale, Kane Son
 

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,165
15,644
The fact that we've spent £110m on central midfielders that you can even argue are inferior choices to Winks and Sissoko says it all. We probably need to get away from the big-money signings and go back to a larger number of cheaper young prospects, it seems to work so much better for us.
 

matjcole

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2005
1,712
1,075
Yes, I would also rather start Winks over Ndombele. Yes, Winks has struggled, but Ndombele is an embarrassment of a central midfielder. Jogs and ambles around like he’s some midfield maestro? Spends most of his time rolling around faking injury. Useless.. To be fair alot of our players are useless. I could tear into most of them.
Anyway, my team for Sunday... COYS?

Lloris; Tanganga, Alderweireld, Dier, Reguilon; Hojbjerg, Winks, Lo Celso; Bale, Kane Son

Are you trolling?
 

matjcole

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2005
1,712
1,075
The fact that we've spent £110m on central midfielders that you can even argue are inferior choices to Winks and Sissoko says it all. We probably need to get away from the big-money signings and go back to a larger number of cheaper young prospects, it seems to work so much better for us.

Who have we bought that is worse than Winks and Sissoko?
 

slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
Oct 21, 2012
18,320
33,955
The fact that we've spent £110m on central midfielders that you can even argue are inferior choices to Winks and Sissoko says it all. We probably need to get away from the big-money signings and go back to a larger number of cheaper young prospects, it seems to work so much better for us.
It seems we just go for players who look good somewhere without thinking about the system the play, how we play, and whether that'll work or not. We buy Lo Celso and play him different to what he was excelling at. We buy Doherty and play him different to what he was excelling at. We buy Sessegnon and play him differently. We get Bergwijn and play him in every fkin position going, same with Fernandes. We get Llorente and dont cross the ball into the fkin box. Its poor decision making.
We need to identify how were gonna play and buy good players for those positions. Its not rocket science.
Whoever scouted Ndombele and thought he would suit the PL must have been on crack.
And you're not telling me that Aurier wasnt getting yellows and wiping people out in dangerous areas until we got him. Did we buy him based on a YouTube video?
 
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