Still a chance for silverware yet?

[Lighty64]

Gifted? Beating Man City and Chelsea. Yeah... ok.
I hate them as much as anyone but come on.

So beating Preston in injury time, Southampton reserves, Sutton and Lincoln both national league teams, Man City having a legal goal ruled out, and then even though they where on top and deserved their win in the final, their opening goal should never of counted. Ramsey made a move towards the ball, he only stopped because Sanchez got there before him.

Now I'm not saying Moses still wouldn't of dived, as he has a history of it, but going down to 10 men definitely made it more difficult for Chelsea.

All those gooners giving big about winning the cup, know the result papered over the cracks, and also deep down are fuming their team never put in hardly any similar performances in during the rest of the season. They ain't happy with no CL, and now have a summer of wandering if their best 2 players will stay. If Ozil and Sanchez go, without CL football they are going to struggle to replace them with any real quality

 

[Spurs72]

Let me ask you this; would you swap our 2nd place CL football next season for an FA Cup and Europa League place?

would I as a Spurs fan prefer for us to win say the Europa League Cup and finish 5th, Yes

 

[spurs mental]

would I as a Spurs fan prefer for us to win say the Europa League Cup and finish 5th, Yes

That's not the question I asked. Answer the question I asked. I know the answer is no. Europa League is different because it qualifies you for the Champions League.

Love the way you didn't quote me because you know you didn't answer the question I asked. Or do you really not like having to actually have a reasoned debate? Or is it just because you've been proved wrong?

 

[spurs mental]

They ain't happy with no CL, and now have a summer of wandering

They've certainly been known to wander about the place before.

 

[Dougal]

Gifted? Beating Man City and Chelsea. Yeah... ok.
I hate them as much as anyone but come on.

Ok, we'll ignore Preston (which they struggled with), a weakened Southampton and not one but two non-league sides. 4 gifts for a team who usually seem to get drawn at home to lower league sides. They basically got a bye to the semis.

 

[slartibartfast]

So beating Preston in injury time, Southampton reserves, Sutton and Lincoln both national league teams, Man City having a legal goal ruled out, and then even though they where on top and deserved their win in the final, their opening goal should never of counted. Ramsey made a move towards the ball, he only stopped because Sanchez got there before him.

Now I'm not saying Moses still wouldn't of dived, as he has a history of it, but going down to 10 men definitely made it more difficult for Chelsea.

All those gooners giving big about winning the cup, know the result papered over the cracks, and also deep down are fuming their team never put in hardly any similar performances in during the rest of the season. They ain't happy with no CL, and now have a summer of wandering if their best 2 players will stay. If Ozil and Sanchez go, without CL football they are going to struggle to replace them with any real quality

All irrelevant. They won those games. How they did it means bugger all.
Do any Chelsea fans give a shit that they were totally out played in the 3 cl games leading up to lifting the trophy? Of course not.
All I said was they beat Man City and Chelsea. If you do that you deserve to win it imo and you can't call that a free ride. The fact Chelsea took the day off isn't Arsenals fault.


Why am I defending those pricks lol?

 

[Lighty64]

All irrelevant. They won those games. How they did it means bugger all.
Do any Chelsea fans give a shit that they were totally out played in the 3 cl games leading up to lifting the trophy? Of course not.
All I said was they beat Man City and Chelsea. If you do that you deserve to win it imo and you can't call that a free ride. The fact Chelsea took the day off isn't Arsenals fault.


Why am I defending those pricks lol?

As I said, and @Dougal has said above,their route to the semis was handed to them on a plate. I was just stating the luck they had getting the win over both City and Chelsum.

They have had the title of being known as "Lucky Arsenal" ever since the FA took backhanders in the 1918?

 

[Dougal]

All irrelevant. They won those games. How they did it means bugger all.
Do any Chelsea fans give a shit that they were totally out played in the 3 cl games leading up to lifting the trophy? Of course not.
All I said was they beat Man City and Chelsea. If you do that you deserve to win it imo and you can't call that a free ride. The fact Chelsea took the day off isn't Arsenals fault.


Why am I defending those pricks lol?

It's not irrelevant when their luck runs out.

 

[Spurs72]

That's not the question I asked. Answer the question I asked. I know the answer is no. Europa League is different because it qualifies you for the Champions League.

Love the way you didn't quote me because you know you didn't answer the question I asked. Or do you really not like having to actually have a reasoned debate? Or is it just because you've been proved wrong?

Would I swap our 2nd place finish for an FA Cup, yes I would, Finish 5th, Win the FA Cup, start a new Season Finish 5th Again and win the Europa that would be fine, that's 2 trophies in 2 years and Champions League Footy to come, atm this current crop of players have been together for like 3 years, played some "Nice Football" and won nothing. They will start leaving, I hope not but I get what Life is about, Life is about Achievements. You cannot sit there and tell me that every year you would take just a 2nd, 3rd, 4th place finish and no Cups, have you no Ambition ?

wasn't proved wrong, I have nothing to hold me back from answering your question properly, if I did not want to "quote you" I would not have at all, hope you have your answer now.

 

[spurs mental]

Would I swap our 2nd place finish for an FA Cup, yes I would, Finish 5th, Win the FA Cup, start a new Season Finish 5th Again and win the Europa that would be fine, that's 2 trophies in 2 years and Champions League Footy to come, atm this current crop of players have been together for like 3 years, played some "Nice Football" and won nothing. They will start leaving, I hope not but I get what Life is about, Life is about Achievements. You cannot sit there and tell me that every year you would take just a 2nd, 3rd, 4th place finish and no Cups, have you no Ambition ?

wasn't proved wrong, I have nothing to hold me back from answering your question properly, if I did not want to "quote you" I would not have at all, hope you have your answer now.

Once again, I'll say it. Of course I want us to win something. And once again, I'll say it. It's not THAT easy. If it was don't you think we would have won something by now?

It all well and good saying win the FA Cup and finish 5th, but then we've got to win about 20/21 games out of 38, while also not losing more than 7 or 8, in the league. We also have to hope that nobody goes and does better than us other than the top 4.

Then we have to hope we get a good draw in the FA Cup, that allows us to rotate in the early rounds, and also hope that some of the other big teams get knocked out to make the odds more favourable for us. Finally we need the luck in the final, like Woolwich had at the weekend with Sanchez hand ball/Ramsey offside.

So you can see there are a lot of factors there that are beyond our control before we even go and win the FA Cup and finish 5th.

We've just qualified for the Champions League for the second season running for the first time in our history. I absolutely wouldn't trade the progression our team and manager have made and are going to make in the future for an FA Cup this season. Nor would I want us to be happy finishing 5th any longer

 

[StartingPrice]

would I as a Spurs fan prefer for us to win say the Europa League Cup and finish 5th, Yes

You are entitled to prefer that.

And other members of the forum are entitled to believe it is a myopic and short-sighted view of things.

 

[StartingPrice]

Would I swap our 2nd place finish for an FA Cup, yes I would, Finish 5th, Win the FA Cup, start a new Season Finish 5th Again and win the Europa that would be fine, that's 2 trophies in 2 years and Champions League Footy to come, atm this current crop of players have been together for like 3 years, played some "Nice Football" and won nothing. They will start leaving, I hope not but I get what Life is about, Life is about Achievements. You cannot sit there and tell me that every year you would take just a 2nd, 3rd, 4th place finish and no Cups, have you no Ambition ?

wasn't proved wrong, I have nothing to hold me back from answering your question properly, if I did not want to "quote you" I would not have at all, hope you have your answer now.

This wasn't how this all started. It started with the contention that ArseAnal, with their pre-conceptions, arrogance and stated aims at the start of the season, had had a better season than us (which is, of course, when taken in its proper context, a bag of shite). And, yes, I am aware that you didn't start the debate on those terms - you just jumped in half way through with an entirely meaningless assertion that it is better to win things than not. Of course, in the general round of things, it is better to win things than not - no-one is disputing that.

But all you are doing is chucking an entirely meaningless wishlist together as though that somehow invalidates anyone who takes a more long-term view of things than you. And anyone can do that. Look, I'll show you:

Are you really saying you would prefer: 1 - to finish 5th win the FA Cup, nest season finish 5th win Europa and then the next season finish eighth, perform like a bag of shite in the CL because we aren't used to that level of competition and then lose all our top players because they want to be winning league titles and CL's, and not finishing 5th or lower due to a lack of consistency and winning a couple of ultimately inferior trophies. To 2 - finishing second in the league, challenging for the title for the second season running, building up a level of consistency and experience competing at the top end of the table in a totally unprecedented way that no Spurs team I have ever watched in nearly 40 years of supporting the club could match, and then next season winning the league because we have that experience and consistency built up, and the following season winning the CL because we now have three years experience in the competition, and the confidence and consistency to do so???

You mean you would choose 1???

See, anyone can make things up like that.

The only contention, really, is are you happy that we had a literally unbelievable season and would have won the league in some season with that level of performance? And if not, why not? And saying you would like to win trophies isn't an answer because we would all like to win trophies. It isn't an either/or issue - either you think we had a great season or you don't. And it isn't a case of, if we hadn't finished second we might have finished fifth and won the FA Cup. it just just work like that. You are either happy we finished second playing exciting and consistent football or you aren't. Simple! Blathering on about winning a trophy is irrelevant...unless you really have been so upset by half-wit Goons trying to retrieve their obvious embarrassment after all their mouthing off by pretending their season was better than ours. And if that is your sole motivation, say so.

 

[Spurs72]

Once again, I'll say it. Of course I want us to win something. And once again, I'll say it. It's not THAT easy. If it was don't you think we would have won something by now?

It all well and good saying win the FA Cup and finish 5th, but then we've got to win about 20/21 games out of 38, while also not losing more than 7 or 8, in the league. We also have to hope that nobody goes and does better than us other than the top 4.

Then we have to hope we get a good draw in the FA Cup, that allows us to rotate in the early rounds, and also hope that some of the other big teams get knocked out to make the odds more favourable for us. Finally we need the luck in the final, like Woolwich had at the weekend with Sanchez hand ball/Ramsey offside.

So you can see there are a lot of factors there that are beyond our control before we even go and win the FA Cup and finish 5th.

We've just qualified for the Champions League for the second season running for the first time in our history. I absolutely wouldn't trade the progression our team and manager have made and are going to make in the future for an FA Cup this season. Nor would I want us to be happy finishing 5th any longer

I answered your question, next Season I hope we win something thats' all

 

[Spurs72]

This wasn't how this all started. It started with the contention that ArseAnal, with their pre-conceptions, arrogance and stated aims at the start of the season, had had a better season than us (which is, of course, when taken in its proper context, a bag of shite). And, yes, I am aware that you didn't start the debate on those terms - you just jumped in half way through with an entirely meaningless assertion that it is better to win things than not. Of course, in the general round of things, it is better to win things than not - no-one is disputing that.

But all you are doing is chucking an entirely meaningless wishlist together as though that somehow invalidates anyone who takes a more long-term view of things than you. And anyone can do that.

The only contention, really, is are you happy that we had a literally unbelievable season and would have won the league in some season with that level of performance? And if not, why not? And saying you would like to win trophies isn't an answer because we would all like to win trophies. It isn't an either/or issue - either you think we had a great season or you don't. And it isn't a case of, if we hadn't finished second we might have finished fifth and won the FA Cup. it just just work like that. You are either happy we finished second playing exciting and consistent football or you aren't. Simple! Blathering on about winning a trophy is irrelevant...unless you really have been so upset by half-wit Goons trying to retrieve their obvious embarrassment after all their mouthing off by pretending their season was better than ours. And if that is your sole motivation, say so.

I wasn't the one that Started, and I did jump in the middle, I just think that winning things is what we want and i don't mean win things in 2020+ , I just want the Club to have Ambition and yeah I we all do , Just some more than others in 2016/2017.

 

[Lighty64]

I wasn't the one that Started, and I did jump in the middle, I just think that winning things is what we want and i don't mean win things in 2020+ , I just want the Club to have Ambition and yeah I we all do , Just some more than others in 2016/2017.

We do have ambition to win things, just Leicester and Chelsea stopped us over the last 2 seasons.

 

[Spurs72]

We do have ambition to win things, just Leicester and Chelsea stopped us over the last 2 seasons.

I think I said "I just want the Club to have Ambition and yeah I we all do" Meaning we all have Ambition

 

[StartingPrice]

I wasn't the one that Started, and I did jump in the middle, I just think that winning things is what we want and i don't mean win things in 2020+ , I just want the Club to have Ambition and yeah I we all do , Just some more than others in 2016/2017.

Like I said, I know it wasn't you that started that line of debate - jumping in in the middle made it appear that you were arguing on the same tack.

Again, as I said, I think most of us if we are honest would acknowledge that we need to start winning things in order to keep our exciting young squad together. And for the sake of winning things in themselves.

None of us, not even me, started off the season hoping we would come second, with the best attack, best defence, best club points total, best goal-difference and a points total that would have actually won the title in many a year, while playing exciting but controlled football. But most of are bloody happy we did. We would have been bloody happier if we had won the league...but we didn't. Personally, I would rather do this than finish fifth and win the FA Cup (and not just in reference to ArseAnal). If you had asked me at the start of the season (I did say that I was confident we would finish in the top four and win a trophy) I would not have said finishing fifth and winning the FA Cup should be our aim. I don't believe players want to stay for Europa league and FA/CC Cup success. I don't think they just want to stay at a club that qualifies for CL and never win anything, either - perhaps the post Scumerates history of ArseAnal shows that. But, there again, Citeh having humongous amounts of money probably helped them in coaxing those players away. And, indeed, Citeh, were able to coax the highest level players away from CL clubs even before they had qualified for CL or won anything just by dint of having that humongous amount of money.

What I would say, and always said, which is where I am probably closer to your opinion than some, is I always, but always, wanted us to win the Europa...and not just now that it includes CL qualification. It gives experience of playing BPL/Europe consistently even before any CL qualification has been attained. It is the equivalent of the UEFA and as an older fan I can remember when us winning the UEFA was quite a big fecking thing - hardly our fault that some folk have depreciated the competition. And frankly - and whoever it was last season who argued his Gooner mates aren't bothered by it, they were lying - European success is the one thing we can still throw in the faces of the Goons when they give it large! I love to point out we have won three major recognised by UEFA European trophies and they have only won one. How much more I would love that to be four and then five and then...! It was a good way for Athletico to claw there way up and I couldn't (and still can't) see why it should be any different for us. But still, at the start of the season, I wouldn't have said winning the Europa and finishing fifth should be our target.

We wanted to finishing in the top four again...again. And we did that fantastically - we excelled.

And, TBH, I am very confident about the future. At the end of Poch's first season I said that we had the basis of a squad that would be the best since the double winners - and got a lot of optimistic ratings for doing so. And I grew up watching Spurs in the mid/late seventies and eighties - so I have seen some pretty good squads. I don't think we are going to have a player exodus, I think the bulk of them will stay together until at least our after the end of our first season at the LaneNew. And I have been enthusing about the work going on in the youth set-up for the last decade (there was always going to be an inevitable effect-delay before we started producing). So, yeah, we will need to start winning things soon and yeah we don't really want to be like the Goons were after they moved into the Scumerates - not winning anything, hemorrhaging players to Citeh and qualifying for CL every year just to fall out of it in exactly the same way every year. We don't want to be like that. So, I agree that the purpose is ultimately to win things and we will soon need to start doing so for the sake of squad preservation. It is just that I also believe we will. And I believe finishing second this year, and finishing second in the way we did, will help us achieve our long-term ambitions far better than finishing fifth and winning the FA Cup would have done.