Roberto Soldado Starved

[Kendall]

Why the need to buy RVP?, well you don't pass up on an option to purchase a bone fide world class striker who will guarantee you goals in this league especially since your rivals had won the league the previous season.

Hernandez scored 19 goals in his debut season, Utd won the league and reached the CL final, his is that for efficiency.

Also if you're expecting players to waltz onto the pitch and hit the ground running after coming off the bench on 79 mins week in week out then you do not understand about consistency and how players need a run of games to play well, especially strikers.

Michu is nothing like Soldado, neither is Morientes who was absolutely no where near as prolific as Soldado was in Spain, cracking examples though...

Apologies, I thought Hernandez had joined the year after. I still maintain though, that he had an impact because he was shiny and new and tailed off because people started to read his game. He's hardly kicked on.

And that's the opposite of what I'm saying about Hernandez. When he comes on, he does hit the ground running. It's when he starts that he doesn't.

Are you sure about Morientes? Didn't both he and Soldado have similar goals per game percentages in Spain before moving to England at similar ages? Both around the 6ft mark, but not particularly strong, nor quick?

 

[CRUSADER]

Absolutely this. To play up front on your own in the PL you need either strength, a turn of pace or the ability to create chances for yourself. Soldado has none of those qualities. He relies 100% on service and scores 99% of his goals from inside the 6 yard box. His record on La Liga is great but this isn't La Liga and unless we are planning on playing two strikers next season we need to move him on and accept his signing was a mistake imo.

Agree with this but yet again we have seen him play with Ade and still he was not effective. Hope Poch can solve the problem.

 

[Shadydan]

Apologies, I thought Hernandez had joined the year after. I still maintain though, that he had an impact because he was shiny and new and tailed off because people started to read his game. He's hardly kicked on.

And that's the opposite of what I'm saying about Hernandez. When he comes on, he does hit the ground running. It's when he starts that he doesn't.

Are you sure about Morientes? Didn't both he and Soldado have similar goals per game percentages in Spain before moving to England at similar ages? Both around the 6ft mark, but not particularly strong, nor quick?

You're insinuating that his first season was a fluke, well it wasn't because in his 3rd season (2012-13) he had a 1 in 2 scoring rate, he managed to score 18 goals that season, 2 behind his debut season in which he scored 20 (not 19 as I previous said) This was the same season where he scored 18 goals in 22 starts and if you don't believe me he oficially had the best goalscoring record at the club that season:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...y-Welbeck-Lionel-Messi-Cristiano-Ronaldo.html

In regards to Morientes his stats didn't quite match up to Soldado's stats whilst in Spain, Before each players moved to the Premiership Soldado averaged 0.72 goals per game and Morientes averaged 0.38 goals per game in the league.

Also when Liverpool bought him he was on a sharp decline (only scored 15 goals in 42 games over 4 seasons) and wasn't scoring as many goals compared to his earlier years, we bought Soldado on the back of his best season where he had 24 in 35 - massive difference. The only reason why people keep bringing up Morientes is because he was relatively successful in Spain and he flopped in England, basically it's a lazy comparison.

Anyway this is getting away from the point I'm trying to make. People always say that a player like Soldado cannot make it in this league because he's too small and likes to play off the shoulder however I've just proved that Hernandez who is exactly the same type of striker albeit more pacier but who is in fact smaller has and can prove that these types of strikers can be successful if they are given the right service.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Soldado was only 13m plus 13m of performance based add-on's, so as it stands, he is 22m more.

If his transfer was performance related based, then Valencia owe us money!

 

[E17yid]

Our mods confirmed it was before the article was printed

If it's true (big if IMO) then we still have no idea what the conditions of the add on's are.

I seriously doubt Valencia would agree to it all being goal based. I would suspect a majority of it would be down to appearances and he notched up quite a lot of those.

 

[brasil_spur]

Football tennis partners? It's officially a bromance.

Loving this, Lamela + Holtby + Soldado + (hopefully Eriksen in the orange boots behind) could be a serious attacking threat with some strong pre-season behind them.

 

[NEVILLEB]

We paid £13million for 28 year old who if he doesnt score means we don't have to pay the full £26m

It kind of makes your argument look sill when you produce facts

What facts like only scoring 6 goals last season?

Or not being strong enough to hold the ball up and link the play?

Or that he has been voted amongst the worst purchases of last season?

If you want to be a great lone striker in the premier league you need to have at least one of the following three qualities.

1. Being able to physically dominate the oppositions defence

2. Exceptional pace

3. Exceptional skill

Soldado has none of these.

He's a poacher.

 

[NEVILLEB]

We paid £13million for 28 year old who if he doesnt score means we don't have to pay the full £26m

It kind of makes your argument look sill when you produce facts

You think he was worth £13 last season?

Where is this contract you're telling me you've seen? If you're telling me this is a fact then I trust you have seen it?

 

[beats1]

If it's true (big if IMO) then we still have no idea what the conditions of the add on's are.

I seriously doubt Valencia would agree to it all being goal based. I would suspect a majority of it would be down to appearances and he notched up quite a lot of those.

Really why because at the time it was shocking that we paid so much when Negredo went for a less amount however it has been widely known in spain that the full transfer fee wasn't paid but the ACTING chairmen had to announce the buyout clause to appease fans

Imo some of the clauses would be team performance based as well like a payment for CL qualification, winning a trophy and etc.

What facts like only scoring 6 goals last season?

Or not being strong enough to hold the ball up and link the play?

Or that he has been voted amongst the worst purchases of last season?

If you want to be a great lone striker in the premier league you need to have at least one of the following three qualities.

1. Being able to physically dominate the oppositions defence

2. Exceptional pace

3. Exceptional skill

Soldado has none of these.

He's a poacher.

Except last season he was doing pretty much everything right except when it came to scoring, he was brilliant in our win against united. He has shown he has good link up play, probably one of our better passers

You think he was worth £13 last season?

Where is this contract you're telling me you've seen? If you're telling me this is a fact then I trust you have seen it?

Must be fact then.

Well since you both want facts, here are the facts:

• Valencia had to sell for them to stay afloat
• The fans weren't happy about this and didnt want to sell their star striker
• Valencia acting chairmen said that to stay afloat they have to raise £15million
• Negredo with a similar record got sold for £16.4million plus add ons
• It was widely said that the chairmen would say he got the buyout clause in order to appease fans

Now spanish transfer fees are widely reported wrong and another thing if we paid his buyout clause it would mean that we paid duty of £4m

I don't think Levy is that bad of a negotiator

I don't know why we are arguing this anymore, the season is about to start, he isn't going, so we might as well get behind rather then moan. Good thing that Poch system worked well with a striker in Soldado's mould at Espanyol(not as good though).

 

[NEVILLEB]

Really why because at the time it was shocking that we paid so much when Negredo went for a less amount however it has been widely known in spain that the full transfer fee wasn't paid but the ACTING chairmen had to announce the buyout clause to appease fans

Imo some of the clauses would be team performance based as well like a payment for CL qualification, winning a trophy and etc.

Except last season he was doing pretty much everything right except when it came to scoring, he was brilliant in our win against united. He has shown he has good link up play, probably one of our better passers


Well since you both want facts, here are the facts:

• Valencia had to sell for them to stay afloat
• The fans weren't happy about this and didnt want to sell their star striker
• Valencia acting chairmen said that to stay afloat they have to raise £15million
• Negredo with a similar record got sold for £16.4million plus add ons
• It was widely said that the chairmen would say he got the buyout clause in order to appease fans

Now spanish transfer fees are widely reported wrong and another thing if we paid his buyout clause it would mean that we paid duty of £4m

I don't think Levy is that bad of a negotiator

I don't know why we are arguing this anymore, the season is about to start, he isn't going, so we might as well get behind rather then moan. Good thing that Poch system worked well with a striker in Soldado's mould at Espanyol(not as good though).

I hope you weren't answering my post because nothing you've listed relates to what I was saying. How much the Valencia fans liked him is irrelevant. Try to understand he's coming to play as a lone striker in the premier league. Concentrate on the qualities you need to be successful at doing that very difficult role.

He did not link well last season. What rubbish. He was totally isolated. Adebayor came into the team and showed how to link the play.

If you buy a 28 (29 now) year old international striker for a lot of money then you expect someone who's going to score more than 6 goals in the league.

He was poor last season. FACT!!!

He needs to get a lot stronger in the gym this summer. If he does that then he could thrive this season.

Drogba, Henry, Suarez, Shearer, Van Nistleroy, Hughes, Berbatov, Torres...that's the standard to be a great lone striker in this league.

 

[beats1]

I hope you weren't answering my post because nothing you've listed relates to what I was saying. How much the Valencia fans liked him is irrelevant. Try to understand he's coming to play as a lone striker in the premier league. Concentrate on the qualities you need to be successful at doing that very difficult role.

He did not link well last season. What rubbish. He was totally isolated. Adebayor came into the team and showed how to link the play.

If you buy a 28 (29 now) year old international striker for a lot of money then you expect someone who's going to score more than 6 goals in the league.

He was poor last season. FACT!!!

He needs to get a lot stronger in the gym this summer. If he does that then he could thrive this season.

Drogba, Henry, Suarez, Shearer, Van Nistleroy, Hughes, Berbatov, Torres...that's the standard to be a great lone striker in this league.

Bollocks he created more than any of the new strikers that came to the PL when he was in the team

Here is our assist table
Eriksen 8 in 23 starts
Soldado 5 in 22 starts
Adebayor 4 in 20 starts

Adebayor's passing was better but alot of that was because he played under a manager who did attack. Also lol at the idea of Adebayor not being isolated when he was under AVB

Lets compare his stats with Ade under AVB with Soldado and his lack of link up play in Soldado class
Adebayor passing completion 80.3%
Soldado passing completion 76.7%

Key passes per match
Adebayor - 1.1
Soldado - 1.0

Passes per match
Adebayor - 24
Soldado - 21

Accurate Through balls
Soldado - 50%
Adebayor - 0 this season and under AVB

Accurate crosses
Adebayor - 15.3%
Soldado - 16%

Disposed per game
Soldado - 1
Adebayor - 2.4 (under Sherwood - 3.7 - perhaps Adebayor doesnt have the physicality for the PL )

Turnovers per game
Soldado - 1.2
Adebayor - 1.6 (under Sherwood - 3.3)

Successful Dribbles per game
Adebayor - 0.6
Soldado - 0.4

Tackles
Adebayor - 0.7
Soldado - 0.5

He was dog shit shooting wise but to say his contribution was terrible was off the mark when he didnt play under the more attacking manager. When looking at the stats under the same manager and its a different story!

Fact*

*=Facts are often pulled out of peoples arses but in this case the data was provided by Opta

 

[idontgetit]

Absolutely this. To play up front on your own in the PL you need either strength, a turn of pace or the ability to create chances for yourself. Soldado has none of those qualities. He relies 100% on service and scores 99% of his goals from inside the 6 yard box. His record on La Liga is great but this isn't La Liga and unless we are planning on playing two strikers next season we need to move him on and accept his signing was a mistake imo.

I agree and disagree with that. It depend how your side sets up. Under AVB it was more lonely striker than lone striker. In that situation you require a physicality very much as you describe. However if the striker is constantly dropping off and midfielders actually making runs on the oppo back four then it's not necessary. I'd use Soldado against weaker sides and Ade when we need someone to hold it up a bit more

 

[idontgetit]

As for pace, ze German side at the world cup doesn't exactly have blistering pace. Utterly no where even near what England had. City when they raped us last season weren't 'outrageously' quick. They had great movement, excellent passing and delivery and were clinical. We know that Soldado has that ability even if he didn't have the form last season.

 

[Beni]

Typical English mentality, in thinking you can only succeed if you're 6ft+ and built like Emile Heskey to play as a lone striker.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Bollocks he created more than any of the new strikers that came to the PL when he was in the team

Here is our assist table
Eriksen 8 in 23 starts
Soldado 5 in 22 starts
Adebayor 4 in 20 starts

Adebayor's passing was better but alot of that was because he played under a manager who did attack. Also lol at the idea of Adebayor not being isolated when he was under AVB

Lets compare his stats with Ade under AVB with Soldado and his lack of link up play in Soldado class
Adebayor passing completion 80.3%
Soldado passing completion 76.7%

Key passes per match
Adebayor - 1.1
Soldado - 1.0

Passes per match
Adebayor - 24
Soldado - 21

Accurate Through balls
Soldado - 50%
Adebayor - 0 this season and under AVB

Accurate crosses
Adebayor - 15.3%
Soldado - 16%

Disposed per game
Soldado - 1
Adebayor - 2.4 (under Sherwood - 3.7 - perhaps Adebayor doesnt have the physicality for the PL )

Turnovers per game
Soldado - 1.2
Adebayor - 1.6 (under Sherwood - 3.3)

Successful Dribbles per game
Adebayor - 0.6
Soldado - 0.4

Tackles
Adebayor - 0.7
Soldado - 0.5

He was dog shit shooting wise but to say his contribution was terrible was off the mark when he didnt play under the more attacking manager. When looking at the stats under the same manager and its a different story!

Fact*

*=Facts are often pulled out of peoples arses but in this case the data was provided by Opta

I can't believe you've had to copy and paste statistics.

Don't you watch the matches? Couldn't you see that Soldado was struggling? We weren't scoring any goals!

AVB was sacked. Did you miss that?

 

[LiamJM10]

If it's true (big if IMO) then we still have no idea what the conditions of the add on's are.

I seriously doubt Valencia would agree to it all being goal based. I would suspect a majority of it would be down to appearances and he notched up quite a lot of those.

Valencia needed the money asap. Wouldn't surprise me if Levy offered them 13m there and then with add ons ewualling 26m should it not work. That way we lose very little. Either we get a player whos playing well and justifying paying the add ons or we only pay 13m, in modern money, thats not a lot for someone like Soldado...

 

[NEVILLEB]

Please can someone post a link to the contract which keeps being quoted.

I would think every transfer includes some performance add ons.

To sit there and think ourselves clever because our striker didn't score any goals is ridiculous. £13 for 6 goals is still bad.

 

[Blake Griffin]

although i told everyone here last summer that soldado was the wrong player for us, i didn't think he'd struggle to such a degree. just having someone up top who can run and hassle defenders is half the battle in this league, if you can't do that then you need to be extremely talented in other areas(like berbatov). i do think he can contribute next season(assuming we don't replace him), particularly at home, away though i'm just not comfortable with the idea of him "leading the line", he gets bullied and is too often a bystander.

 

[shelfyid]

i think there were early signs of him developing a partnership with lamela, early last season. by the end of the season he was not even making those bread and butter runs a striker makes as he knew there would be no ball in for him.

with lamela on the right this season, eriksen behind at 10 and a lm with end product and we could see a transformation in soldado.