Redknapp2011/12 vs Pochettino2016/17 vs Mouriniho2020/21

[fishhhandaricecake]

I still feel people are going way over the top about how good our current squad is! On paper it is a very good and strong squad. However in a reality there are still a lot of flaws and weakness in it.

We have the usual cast of Aurier, Winks, Sissoko,all of whom have massive flaws and appear to have big weakness mentality wise and to be honest just aren’t good enough for a team who are supposedly aiming to win trophies/ finish in the top 4. Certainly none of them should be playing regularly as they are.

Then throw in players like Lamela (who I am a fully paid up member of his fan club), Moura, Bergwijn again very good players but all of them seem to have flaws and are very streaky players. When they are good they are good! However equally when they are bad they very bad. Look at Moura he has had one good game in 12 months the rest of the time he has been woeful! How he gets in the starting line up as regularly as he does I have no idea. Yes is a hard worker but as I say over nearly the last 12 months he has been woeful Barring that one game against LASK.

Then we get on to players like Dele, Bale (early days yet let’s give him time to regain fitness) Dier, Sanchez, Toby. There has to be big question marks about these players in some cases are they going to be good as they can be/ in others are they past there best.

As I say on paper it’s very good squad. But personally I feel when you actually break it down and analysis it look at individual players performances over past couple of season you can see there is a lot of question marks about a lot of the players in our squad. Performances like last night really don’t help settle any of those question marks.

I would say equally though it Is clear that there were too many changes to last nights team. Given we had three players coming back from injury and majority of the rest of the starting line up who hadn’t played in weeks. Maybe if jose had made only 5/6 changes then we might have seen a different performance.

Very good points.

I think aside from a top class CB and DM its pretty hard to improve the squad. Mabye the back-up attacking players could produce goals and assists a little more often?

Agree Aurier, Winks, Sissoko are all quite average but as squad players they're better than most other teams alternatives.

Where do you feel the weaknesses are compared to say peak Poch or Redknapp squads both of which etiher were part of title challenges or nearly were and should've been.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Absolutely this and it’s why I’ve said what I’ve said earlier in this thread about Redknapp’s squad in particular.

Of course that had weaknesses too, but Toby, Dier, Sanchez and Tanganga better than King, Gallas, Dawson and Kaboul. Not a chance ( although in fairness we know the fitness issues King had and indeed Kaboul in the end).

Then Winks, Sissoko, PEH, GLC, Ndombele better than Sandro, Parker, Modric, VDV, Hudd. Again, no way. We also had players like Krankjar that couldn’t get regular minutes.

We have a good squad no doubt and our aces in the pack Kane and Son piss all over that Redknapp squad’s forward options, but other areas I just can’t see it.

Putting it like Redknapp actually really underachieved with us.

 

[Shadydan]

I still feel people are going way over the top about how good our current squad is! On paper it is a very good and strong squad. However in a reality there are still a lot of flaws and weakness in it.

We have the usual cast of Aurier, Winks, Sissoko,all of whom have massive flaws and appear to have big weakness mentality wise and to be honest just aren’t good enough for a team who are supposedly aiming to win trophies/ finish in the top 4. Certainly none of them should be playing regularly as they are.

Then throw in players like Lamela (who I am a fully paid up member of his fan club), Moura, Bergwijn again very good players but all of them seem to have flaws and are very streaky players. When they are good they are good! However equally when they are bad they very bad. Look at Moura he has had one good game in 12 months the rest of the time he has been woeful! How he gets in the starting line up as regularly as he does I have no idea. Yes is a hard worker but as I say over nearly the last 12 months he has been woeful Barring that one game against LASK.

Then we get on to players like Dele, Bale (early days yet let’s give him time to regain fitness) Dier, Sanchez, Toby. There has to be big question marks about these players in some cases are they going to be good as they can be/ in others are they past there best.

As I say on paper it’s very good squad. But personally I feel when you actually break it down and analysis it look at individual players performances over past couple of season you can see there is a lot of question marks about a lot of the players in our squad. Performances like last night really don’t help settle any of those question marks.

I would say equally though it Is clear that there were too many changes to last nights team. Given we had three players coming back from injury and majority of the rest of the starting line up who hadn’t played in weeks. Maybe if jose had made only 5/6 changes then we might have seen a different performance.

The current squad is fine, people are downplaying it because we just lost recently so it's still fresh in the mind.

 

[Thenewcat]

Very good points.

I think aside from a top class CB and DM its pretty hard to improve the squad. Mabye the back-up attacking players could produce goals and assists a little more often?

Agree Aurier, Winks, Sissoko are all quite average but as squad players they're better than most other teams alternatives.

Where do you feel the weaknesses are compared to say peak Poch or Redknapp squads both of which etiher were part of title challenges or nearly were and should've been.

Aurier has been excellent so far this season. He doesn’t deserve to be on that list at all

 

[dagraham]

Putting it like Redknapp actually really underachieved with us.

Yeah I think he did, although I was a huge fan of the way we played and think he gets a rough ride by fans who simply disliked him.

Think his management style was his biggest strength, but also his biggest weakness. Let the players express themselves which resulted in some wonderful football at times, but with a bit more structure and more ruthless mentality and intensity and we could and should have achieved more.

Would also have been interesting to see what would have happened if the whole England thing never came about.

 

[Metalhead]

I think that it’s a little early to judge the current squad. The one recurring theme that has always held us back is mentality. If Jose can’t sort that out then I don’t know if it ever will be. I’m optimistic that he will though. It’s not something that will happen overnight though.

 

[fortworthspur]

this thread has family feud written all over it.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Yeah I think he did, although I was a huge fan of the way we played and think he gets a rough ride by fans who simply disliked him.

Think his management style was his biggest strength, but also his biggest weakness. Let the players express themselves which resulted in some wonderful football at times, but with a bit more structure and more ruthless mentality and intensity and we could and should have achieved more.

Would also have been interesting to see what would have happened if the whole England thing never came about.

Completely 100% agree

 

[JollyHappy]

At present I'd say Poch's first 11 was the strongest when all the players played well. Lloris was at his peak. It was the best defence. Dembele and Wanyama bossed games and the front three were at their best.

Bale and Modric are the only 2 I think that you could add to the first 11 to make it even better.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

In 11/12 Friedel, Kyle Walker and Adebayor were all first choice players while crouch had left.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Really interesting thread - thanks. Scattered thoughts:

One thing the post doesn’t consider is the strength of the competition. And for me, that’s why Redknapp should have won the league. He had 2 of the top 10 players in the world, a decent squad and no one else was that good. 69 points is frankly pathetic with that lot.

The 2016-17 team is by far the best, as reflected in the points total. 86 points is actually incredible when you think about the injuries we had and the lack of depth in several key positions. Chelsea were so lucky with injuries that year (and not playing in Europe)

This year’s team is an interesting one - the attack is the strongest it’s ever been if you consider depth, but it has bigger issues than the other teams. The centre backs are a concern, and whilst I love our theoretical first choice midfield (that has never played together) of Gio, Tanguy and Hojbjerg, we have no cover worth speaking of for Hojbjerg and need one of Tanguy and Gio on the pitch or we lose control of midfield every time

That is a very good point to be fair, the level of competition when Harry was manager was lower, but then again 2016-17 apart from bloody Chelsea, most the usual top 6 were well off the pace.

Generally agree with your analysis as well, 2016-17 best all-round team, this years team best depth especially attacking sense but there are some concerns with CB and DM.

 

[TwanYid]

How about the squad that made it to a Champions League final in 2019?

Our best League game that season was Brighton @ the goons.

 

[TwanYid]

this thread has family feud written all over it.

Ok let's put it a less argumentative way:

Redknapp's squad = Obama

Poch's squad = Trump

Jose's squad = Biden with a bit of Boris Johnson thrown in,

Now discuss...

 

[PrettyColors]

Best high-end talent: 11/12 (I seriously think Modric and Bale were two of the best 5 players in the Prem at that point in time)
Best management and tactics: 16/17 - we pressed opponents completely off the pitch. definitely the most dominant era I've ever seen us play.
Best squad depth: 20/21 should probably take this. the 11/12 team especially looked completely lost without Modric and the less said about that January window the better. 16/17 we also weren't as strong in depth.

People forget that we finished 3rd in the EL group that 11/12 season, due to awful arrogant tactics from 'Arry. It was clear he never was really a disciplined gameplan manager and visiting European teams really threw us off. I think that team could have been elite, probably still wouldn't have beat the ridiculous 90 point City/United that season but our second half of the season was abysmal due to 'Arry's head getting turned. I agree that we underachieved under him, though in many ways the individual development of Modders, Bale, and our fullbacks wouldn't have happened under any other manager. Interesting trade-offs.

The thing is that 2010/2012 could have feasibly featured Luis Suarez or Cavani up top (both were available and I think Cavani directly offered to us by Palermo) and a 3rd place finish would have gotten us Hazard from Lille. There was much more variance in transfers then. I'll always look at what happened with that squad as a let down.

 

[stormfly]

I really enjoyed the Jol era, they were fun times. Berbatov, Keane, Defoe, Kanoute/Mido great frontline. White Hart Lane was rocking back then. That was just when we were on the up. Not knowing what Atouba was going to do next, Carrick and Davids in midfield at one point. King and Dawson in defence and Kanoute scoring a worldie when he could be bothered. We also started beating teams that we hadn’t for about 10 years.

 

[sausage]

How about the squad that made it to a Champions League final in 2019?

Hmm. As far as a holistic achievement goes, it was incredible. One of the reasons why our run to the CL was incredible was because we were pretty crap for pretty much that entire season, and certainly in the CL, bar portions of a few games. I still have no real idea how we made it as far as we did, but for some moments of individual brilliance and luck among some pretty terrible team performances.

I think that season is the absolute definition of when they say 'big clubs' need to get results even when they're playing badly.

No idea why we're comparing peak Redknapp to peak Poch to a-dozen-games-into-first-full-season-Mourinho, though.

 

[punkisback]

This needs a poll,

Redknapp best team
Poch best collective effort
Jose best shithousing

 

[Shadydan]

Our best League game that season was Brighton @ the goons.

Was actually Everton 6-2

 

[TwanYid]

Was actually Everton 6-2

 

[spurs mental]

Our best League game that season was Brighton @ the goons.

Well that's not really true now is it?

We were horrendous from about January but up to the defeat v Wolves at Wembley, we were keeping pace with Liverpool and City.