Ratings vs Watford

[420spur]

I seldom disagree with anything you post but I really did think that Gomes rode his luck yesterday. For me, he frequently palmed and punched when he might have caught, and the ricochets that arose were pretty random - he was just fortunate in the way they dropped. And he still had that look and of a frightened rabbit. At least, that's how I saw it

And dived on the back of Kane's legs!

 

[Bus-Conductor]

yes interesting take on Davies and Frodo in the Fourfourtwo website article below plus an all round excellent break down of tactics

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features...king-points-spurs-1-0-watford#:XUOPKpx0qwRPzA

Some really silly schoolboy stuff in there though. "enormous credit to Pochettino for introducing Wimmer" "Wimmer's Success" - I mean he's done OK but only played two games, one against a really shit side (and nearly gave away a pen and lots of free kicks) and one against a team that got in our half twice. And of course the game opened up after Alli came on because within two minutes we'd scored and Watford had to come out, and it seems to completely ignore that Davies and Kane were clean through about 4 times between them before that.

 

[dannythomas]

His contribution in many ways has been similar to that of Chadli's last season and no-one thought it outrageous to call what he did some of the time when he wasn't scoring and assisting poor, so why is there a different rule for Alli ?

He's provided some superb moments, he clearly has ability - I've constantly acknowledged this - he's also very young and has massive scope - I've repeatedly acknowledged this too - but he's also put in some pretty poor overall performances and often been played in roles that don't really suit him or the dynamic of the team - and I stand by this evaluation too. I've never said he's shit lets drop him forever, I've constantly suggested that I'd like us to try a 433, because I think it would accommodate him better.

I like Alli, apart from ability, I think he's got real character and pitch presence, but I still care more about the balance and dynamics of the team more than I ever will about any individual. I keep using this example but it's a great current one, ManC are woefully under achieving because IMO Pellegrini is trying shoehorn Yaya into a CM2 - 4231 format. Juventus are achieving good things (including beating ManY away) because they aren't doing the same with Pogba.

There's always been an oversensitivity in this place to criticism of favourites, whilst those that aren't are fair game to be pilloried to buggery.

Ok, but don't you think that Alli has shown he can play in a variety of positions , showing up on the left to provide the killer ball on Saturday, or frequently getting ahead of Kane in striking positions ? I don't think he has struggled to fit into our 4-2-3-1 system at all. He is being given license to roam more than possibly any other player and relishes that. His contribution , along with our key performers this season ( our entire back 5 , Dier, Dembele and Eriksen ) has reduced our dependence on Kane and I would argue that 4-2-3-1 is working very well as witnessed by 2nd place right now. I agree that 4-3-3 is a good option but assuming Eriksen would be the fulcrum of the midfield 3 I actually think it would be harder to put Dembele, Dier and Alli into positions that suit them . I would be curious to see how you think the 4-3-3 would line up .

As for constantly criticizing players who are not favourites on here, would you include those who constantly criticise Walker in that category ? I actually don't think we have any players who have underperformed this season except possibly Fazio and Townsend who have been shipped out.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Is your bird Clemence Posey, coz I'd f**k ur bird!!

Passing over the obvious "grow up, mate", response, she "worked on", not "acted in" the film. She used to work in the VFX industry as a rotoscope artist and compositor. She still does sometimes.

 

[dudu]

Christian Eriksen created more chances than any other player in all of today's Premier League games (8).

and another one.

Most chances created in 2016:

Christian Eriksen: 28
Mesut Ozil: 18
Kevin De Bruyne: 15
David Silva: 15

Some people just gotta hate or should get glasses

He has been a revelation in recent weeks.

 

[dudu]

Don't really get the Alli comment. I have continually acknowledged Alli's good attributes, just unlike you, and some others, haven't closed my eyes to his weaknesses as well.

I still think he's a player ( like others I have used as high profile examples frequently like Yaya, Pogba etc)) who despite clearly being very talented isn't the easiest to fit into a 4231 system.

It's worth noting that we played well before he came on and created chances and with better finishing from Davies or Kane would have already been leading.

I don't think this team succeeds or fails because of any one player, even Kane. I think this team will graft out performances and hopefully results no matter who plays, what matters most is that we stick to the ethos and not the individual.

This all over. While we get some stand out moments and some great individual performances it's the collective mentality and desire that is making us as consistent as we are.

 

[Mr Pink]

His contribution in many ways has been similar to that of Chadli's last season and no-one thought it outrageous to call what he did some of the time when he wasn't scoring and assisting poor, so why is there a different rule for Alli ?

He's provided some superb moments, he clearly has ability - I've constantly acknowledged this - he's also very young and has massive scope - I've repeatedly acknowledged this too - but he's also put in some pretty poor overall performances and often been played in roles that don't really suit him or the dynamic of the team - and I stand by this evaluation too. I've never said he's shit lets drop him forever, I've constantly suggested that I'd like us to try a 433, because I think it would accommodate him better.

I like Alli, apart from ability, I think he's got real character and pitch presence, but I still care more about the balance and dynamics of the team more than I ever will about any individual. I keep using this example but it's a great current one, ManC are woefully under achieving because IMO Pellegrini is trying shoehorn Yaya into a CM2 - 4231 format. Juventus are achieving good things (including beating ManY away) because they aren't doing the same with Pogba.

There's always been an oversensitivity in this place to criticism of favourites, whilst those that aren't are fair game to be pilloried to buggery.

Really BC? From a goal threat point of view I can see why you make the connection but for me Alli is a lot more tigerish in terms of contributing to the collective work ethic than Chadli is. Could you ever see the latter winning the ball like Alli did against Southampton (IIRC) to set up Kane?

I like Chadli, on song he offers a real threat but overall I don't really see the comparison or likeness in contribution as being very similar.

 

[double0]

4231>>433. Because of its flexibility

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Ok, but don't you think that Alli has shown he can play in a variety of positions , showing up on the left to provide the killer ball on Saturday, or frequently getting ahead of Kane in striking positions ? I don't think he has struggled to fit into our 4-2-3-1 system at all. He is being given license to roam more than possibly any other player and relishes that. His contribution , along with our key performers this season ( our entire back 5 , Dier, Dembele and Eriksen ) has reduced our dependence on Kane and I would argue that 4-2-3-1 is working very well as witnessed by 2nd place right now. I agree that 4-3-3 is a good option but assuming Eriksen would be the fulcrum of the midfield 3 I actually think it would be harder to put Dembele, Dier and Alli into positions that suit them . I would be curious to see how you think the 4-3-3 would line up .

As for constantly criticizing players who are not favourites on here, would you include those who constantly criticise Walker in that category ? I actually don't think we have any players who have underperformed this season except possibly Fazio and Townsend who have been shipped out.

I don't think Alli has played a variety of positions well - yet - and I think that's why he's been shunted around into various positions. I think he's proved he's capable of contributing goals and creative input from a variety of positions, but he has not always performed the other facets of those positions well. A CM in a CM2 needs to a hell of a lot more than just be able to bomb into the box and get on the end something. An ACM needs a quick and composed brain whilst all around is chaos, Alli has had moments but often looked a bit bumbly in that position and yes he did OK when he came on saturday but I don't think his natural position will ever be ALM.

What would you actually say is Alli's best position, or more importantly what position do you think Alli should play that is best for the team ? Because in a 4231 I am genuinely struggling to answer that question with conviction.

I've suggested putting Mason next to Dier and Dembele, Alli & Eriksen as AM's next week against City because I think it will make us robust and able to press and hold the ball in the final third where City are vulnerable whilst giving us two good hard working CM's with some ball playing in Mason.

Eriksen is given at least as much license to roam, in fact I think our AM's are all given a reasonable amount of freedom and interchangeability. I don't think Alli is unique in that aspect.

I don't get your question about Walker, can you rephrase it ?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Really BC? From a goal threat point of view I can see why you make the connection but for me Alli is a lot more tigerish in terms of contributing to the collective work ethic than Chadli is. Could you ever see the latter winning the ball like Alli did against Southampton (IIRC) to set up Kane?

I like Chadli, on song he offers a real threat but overall I don't really see the comparison or likeness in contribution as being very similar.

Yeah, sorry I didn't give a full explanation as I'm saying the same thing over and over it just gets repetitive, I have said previously it's not quite the same conundrum because Alli is tenacious, he will get stuck in, but he isn't always the most intelligent or dynamic or diligent presser, and when he plays in CM he isn't nearly involved enough with the ball or see enough of it.

Just go back to the Palace game, many of us in the match thread prior to his "moment" were saying how poor he was playing - because he was - he was bumbling about, barely managed to find a team mate with a pass for the first 20 minutes, and when dropped back to CM was party to us losing grip of the game completely because he can be a bit like a turtle in a windsock there.

In comparing him to Chadli, all I'm saying is they are players who both contributed productive stuff but the rest of their games could be erratic and frustrating - not necessarily in identical ways.

If it makes you feel better I've also often used the examples of Yaya and Pogba as to how ManC and Juve fail and succeed respectively to accommodate similarly productive players who come with compromise in other areas of their game.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

I don't think Alli has played a variety of positions well - yet - and I think that's why he's been shunted around into various positions. I think he's proved he's capable of contributing goals and creative input from a variety of positions, but he has not always performed the other facets of those positions well. A CM in a CM2 needs to a hell of a lot more than just be able to bomb into the box and get on the end something. An ACM needs a quick and composed brain whilst all around is chaos, Alli has had moments but often looked a bit bumbly in that position and yes he did OK when he came on saturday but I don't think his natural position will ever be ALM.

What would you actually say is Alli's best position, or more importantly what position do you think Alli should play that is best for the team ? Because in a 4231 I am genuinely struggling to answer that question with conviction.

I've suggested putting Mason next to Dier and Dembele, Alli & Eriksen as AM's next week against City because I think it will make us robust and able to press and hold the ball in the final third where City are vulnerable whilst giving us two good hard working CM's with some ball playing in Mason.

Eriksen is given at least as much license to roam, in fact I think our AM's are all given a reasonable amount of freedom and interchangeability. I don't think Alli is unique in that aspect.

I don't get your question about Walker, can you rephrase it ?

I think Alli has been pushed up from the CM2 to the AM3 - where all the attacking players naturally switch positions - mostly as a mechanism to protect Alli from accumulating too many yellows. Fouls are less likely to be yellows when they occur in the attacking end of the field.

Alli still needs some maturity to play more composed further back - though I think he is gaining that maturity every match. Long-term, he is going to be massive as a CM who attacks.

Also, Alli helps create space in the attacking end - both with his runs, but also in just generally drawing extra attention from defenders - that creates space for Kane and the other attacking players.

Finally, Alli has the energy of a 19-yo, and that allows him to switch with Kane on occasion when it comes to pressing higher up the pitch.

 

[ERO]

Reckon these ratings are pretty spot on
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/9...nd-Premier-League-2015-2016-Tottenham-Watford

All our starting outfield players had a shot. Four of our players, including the left back, had as many, or more, shots than Watford.

 

[jezz]

All our starting outfield players had a shot. Four of our players, including the left back, had as many, or more, shots than Watford.

Agreed they were lucky it was only 1 0.

 

[dannythomas]

I don't think Alli has played a variety of positions well - yet - and I think that's why he's been shunted around into various positions. I think he's proved he's capable of contributing goals and creative input from a variety of positions, but he has not always performed the other facets of those positions well. A CM in a CM2 needs to a hell of a lot more than just be able to bomb into the box and get on the end something. An ACM needs a quick and composed brain whilst all around is chaos, Alli has had moments but often looked a bit bumbly in that position and yes he did OK when he came on saturday but I don't think his natural position will ever be ALM.

What would you actually say is Alli's best position, or more importantly what position do you think Alli should play that is best for the team ? Because in a 4231 I am genuinely struggling to answer that question with conviction.

I've suggested putting Mason next to Dier and Dembele, Alli & Eriksen as AM's next week against City because I think it will make us robust and able to press and hold the ball in the final third where City are vulnerable whilst giving us two good hard working CM's with some ball playing in Mason.

Eriksen is given at least as much license to roam, in fact I think our AM's are all given a reasonable amount of freedom and interchangeability. I don't think Alli is unique in that aspect.

I don't get your question about Walker, can you rephrase it ?

Walker is not one of the " favourites " you refer to . He is one of our more criticised players , unfairly in my view because he has been much more solid this season. I think you criticise him quite a lot yourself which is what you suggested others do about our not-so-popular players.

Alli has to play AM along with Eriksen and AN Other ( probably Lamela because he presses better than Son or Chadli. )
As you say, there is fluidity between Eriksen and Alli and that is how the AMs should operate. But there is also fluidity between Eriksen and Dembele because both are best used in CM and Eriksen sometimes drops deeper to allow Dembele to get forward where his pressing is particularly effective as you say. But all of this is predicated on Dier being the security factor in front of the back 4 . I'm not sure that Mason should be preferred to any of our midfielders right now other than on a rotational basis. I think the existing system is working pretty well right now.

 

[sloth]

His contribution in many ways has been similar to that of Chadli's last season and no-one thought it outrageous to call what he did some of the time when he wasn't scoring and assisting poor, so why is there a different rule for Alli ?

He's provided some superb moments, he clearly has ability - I've constantly acknowledged this - he's also very young and has massive scope - I've repeatedly acknowledged this too - but he's also put in some pretty poor overall performances and often been played in roles that don't really suit him or the dynamic of the team - and I stand by this evaluation too. I've never said he's shit lets drop him forever, I've constantly suggested that I'd like us to try a 433, because I think it would accommodate him better.
.

You haven't included him in a single one of your 4231 formations preferring out of form or returning from injury players to him every time.

In terms of empirical evidence you're just wrong as well. Let's list the types of evidence usually admissible when trying to back a theory.

1. Weight of opinion - if enough people claim to have witnessed something then it should be taken into account.
2. Expert opinion - this can vary, but if the vast majority of experts agree on something it should be taken into account.
3. KPI - Try and break down and then count the data - if the data all points in one direction then that should be taken into account.

4. The other rule is be sceptical of your own pet theory, you are human and so biased towards yourself.

On their own 1., 2., and 3. don't prove very much. If two out of three agree then that's good, especially if 1. and 2. are pretty much unanimous. If all three say the same thing and 1. and 2. are unanimous then you've got something that points strongly in one direction.

Finally 4. If you go strongly against 1. 2. 3. consider whether you may be falling victim to 4. The alternative is you're a visionary. Like Trump is a visionary. Or David Icke. Consider whether you often seem to go against 1., 2., and 3., and whether you like the idea that you might be a visionary. Whether it's one of the key elements of the story you tell about yourself. Like another person's might be that he doesn't fall victim to such illusions.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You haven't included him in a single one of your 4231 formations preferring out of form or returning from injury players to him every time.

I've put him in this weeks 4231.

In terms of empirical evidence you're just wrong as well. Let's list the types of evidence usually admissible when trying to back a theory.

1. Weight of opinion - if enough people claim to have witnessed something then it should be taken into account.

This is such spurious bullshit, it ill behooves you. Weight of opinion means fuck all scientifically. And anyone with a modicum of intelligence will know this. If you get a room full of fuckwits and one intelligent person does that make the fuckwits right? Weight of opinion told us the earth was flat. Weight of opinion held black people as an inferior race in the western world for centuries. Weight of opinion believed left handed women were witches. Weight of opinion tells us the british isles will crumble into the sea if the queens head isn't on it's 5p bit.

Go and read the Palace match thread. The weight of opinion was that he was having a bad game and contributing (along with others) to Palace's increasing threat.

I'm not saying anything outrageous here Sloth, you don't seem to be responding to what I am actually saying, you seem to have a template response which you copy and paste in repost to anything I post which isn't singing from the majority hymn sheet or, more relevantly, your hymn sheet.

You seem to be conveniently ignoring anything positive I say about Alli, or the rationale I have applied when discussing him, the examples and arguments for and against I have considered, and have made up your mind I have have some kind of agenda against him. I have repeatedly stated that I like many of the qualities he has. I have stated I would like for us to find a role for him within the team. I have just questioned whether the roles he's been given, in the format they have been part of, with the personnel around him have always been right. I have also called some of his overall performances poor, and I haven't been alone when doing so - so I have had some weight of opinion on my side, not yours, certainly on some occasions.

Why do you think ManC are not walking away with the league this year ? Chelsea, ManU and Arsenal are all varying degrees of meh after all. Could it be that Pellegrini is struggling to accommodate very talented players like Toure into his 4231 format? Could it be possible that as uber talented as Toure is, they might be a better, more cohesive team if they either didn't play him at all or changed formation to maximise his strengths and accommodate his weaknesses ?

The weight of opinion was that Dawson was a fantastic CB. The weight of opinion was that Walker was one of, if not the best RB in the league three years ago. Look at what we have now, kind of disproves your weight of opinion theory doesn't it?

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
― Mark Twain

“Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”
― Leo Tolstoy

“I don't imagine you will dispute the fact that at present the stupid people are in an absolutely overwhelming majority all the world over.”
― Henrik Ibsen

“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widely spread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.”
― Bertrand Russell,

“The only tyrant I accept in this world is the 'still small voice' within me. And even though I have to face the prospect of being a minority of one, I humbly believe I have the courage to be in such a hopeless minority.”
― Mahatma Gandhi,

2. Expert opinion - this can vary, but if the vast majority of experts agree on something it should be taken into account.

Again, we are not talking scientists or well educated people here. We are talking, often poorly educated people given jobs by their friends, often stealing a living by saying baaahhh or moooo when the rest of their ilk do, frequently having not actually even analysed properly what they have seen. I really couldn't give a shit what Robbie Savage or Jamie Redknapp says. Your welcome to them as your wingmen.

The risible case you make for 1 & 2 makes 3 somewhat moribund. But for the record I'm not claiming all Mexicans are drug dealers, or that football is is a lizard conspiracy and we should all wear turquoise.

I'm not even saying Alli is shit.

 

[sloth]

I've put him in this weeks 4231.




This is such spurious bullshit, it ill behooves you. Weight of opinion means fuck all scientifically. And anyone with a modicum of intelligence will know this. If you get a room full of fuckwits and one intelligent person does that make the fuckwits right? Weight of opinion told us the earth was flat. Weight of opinion held black people as an inferior race in the western world for centuries. Weight of opinion believed left handed women were witches. Weight of opinion tells us the british isles will crumble into the sea if the queens head isn't on it's 5p bit.

Go and read the Palace match thread. The weight of opinion was that he was having a bad game and contributing (along with others) to Palace's increasing threat.

I'm not saying anything outrageous here Sloth, you don't seem to be responding to what I am actually saying, you seem to have a template response which you copy and paste in repost to anything I post which isn't singing from the majority hymn sheet or, more relevantly, your hymn sheet.

You seem to be conveniently ignoring anything positive I say about Alli, or the rationale I have applied when discussing him, the examples and arguments for and against I have considered, and have made up your mind I have have some kind of agenda against him. I have repeatedly stated that I like many of the qualities he has. I have stated I would like for us to find a role for him within the team. I have just questioned whether the roles he's been given, in the format they have been part of, with the personnel around him have always been right. I have also called some of his overall performances poor, and I haven't been alone when doing so - so I have had some weight of opinion on my side, not yours, certainly on some occasions.

Why do you think ManC are not walking away with the league this year ? Chelsea, ManU and Arsenal are all varying degrees of meh after all. Could it be that Pellegrini is struggling to accommodate very talented players like Toure into his 4231 format? Could it be possible that as uber talented as Toure is, they might be a better, more cohesive team if they either didn't play him at all or changed formation to maximise his strengths and accommodate his weaknesses ?

The weight of opinion was that Dawson was a fantastic CB. The weight of opinion was that Walker was one of, if not the best RB in the league three years ago. Look at what we have now, kind of disproves your weight of opinion theory doesn't it?

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
― Mark Twain

“Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”
― Leo Tolstoy

“I don't imagine you will dispute the fact that at present the stupid people are in an absolutely overwhelming majority all the world over.”
― Henrik Ibsen

“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widely spread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.”
― Bertrand Russell,

“The only tyrant I accept in this world is the 'still small voice' within me. And even though I have to face the prospect of being a minority of one, I humbly believe I have the courage to be in such a hopeless minority.”
― Mahatma Gandhi,




Again, we are not talking scientists or well educated people here. We are talking, often poorly educated people given jobs by their friends, often stealing a living by saying baaahhh or moooo when the rest of their ilk do, frequently having not actually even analysed properly what they have seen. I really couldn't give a shit what Robbie Savage or Jamie Redknapp says. Your welcome to them as your wingmen.

The risible case you make for 1 & 2 makes 3 somewhat moribund. But for the record I'm not claiming all Mexicans are drug dealers, or that football is is a lizard conspiracy and we should all wear turquoise.

I'm not even saying Alli is shit.

All I'm saying is, if one person sees a flying saucer, then the evidence is flimsy. If the whole of London were to see a fuck off alien megaship hovering over Buckingham Palace then the evidence is stronger.

But is it a flying saucer?

So the experts get involved, and if most of them say it's a weather phenomena, or the MOD testing a new air-blimp, or a Blockbuster Film in production testing a new kind of 3-D projector, then we start to think it's not a flying saucer after all. But if they come out and say we can't think of anything it can be except a fuck-off alien mother-ship then we begin to think shit, maybe it's the end of days.

So then we try and look at the data, we ping it with radar, we buzz it with x-rays, I don't know we try and land a drone on it, and if that comes back and says yep, it's something weird and off-worldy, then we say our prayers, or play them some John Lennon, or whatever...

Anyway, the point being that any of those things by themselves don't constitute overwhelming evidence, but when every man and his dog and the expert fucking dog trainer see it, and when the data supports it, then if we're still going nah mate, it's just a fucking cloud innit, then we might start to question whether it's us whose opinion is in fact off kilter.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

All I'm saying is, if one person sees a flying saucer, then the evidence is flimsy. If the whole of London were to see a fuck off alien megaship hovering over Buckingham Palace then the evidence is stronger.

But is it a flying saucer?

So the experts get involved, and if most of them say it's a weather phenomena, or the MOD testing a new air-blimp, or a Blockbuster Film in production testing a new kind of 3-D projector, then we start to think it's not a flying saucer after all. But if they come out and say we can't think of anything it can be except a fuck-off alien mother-ship then we begin to think shit, maybe it's the end of days.

So then we try and look at the data, we ping it with radar, we buzz it with x-rays, I don't know we try and land a drone on it, and if that comes back and says yep, it's something weird and off-worldy, then we say our prayers, or play them some John Lennon, or whatever...

Anyway, the point being that any of those things by themselves don't constitute overwhelming evidence, but when every man and his dog and the expert fucking dog trainer see it, and when the data supports it, then if we're still going nah mate, it's just a fucking cloud innit, then we might start to question whether it's us whose opinion is in fact off kilter.

Whatever.

 

[Ionman34]

All I'm saying is, if one person sees a flying saucer, then the evidence is flimsy. If the whole of London were to see a fuck off alien megaship hovering over Buckingham Palace then the evidence is stronger.

But is it a flying saucer?

So the experts get involved, and if most of them say it's a weather phenomena, or the MOD testing a new air-blimp, or a Blockbuster Film in production testing a new kind of 3-D projector, then we start to think it's not a flying saucer after all. But if they come out and say we can't think of anything it can be except a fuck-off alien mother-ship then we begin to think shit, maybe it's the end of days.

So then we try and look at the data, we ping it with radar, we buzz it with x-rays, I don't know we try and land a drone on it, and if that comes back and says yep, it's something weird and off-worldy, then we say our prayers, or play them some John Lennon, or whatever...

Anyway, the point being that any of those things by themselves don't constitute overwhelming evidence, but when every man and his dog and the expert fucking dog trainer see it, and when the data supports it, then if we're still going nah mate, it's just a fucking cloud innit, then we might start to question whether it's us whose opinion is in fact off kilter.

I've seen a flying saucer. No one else saw it, no one else believed me, but I know it was a flying saucer.


Of course, the subsequent anal probing did go a long way to convincing me...

 

[Spurger King]

All I'm saying is, if one person sees a flying saucer, then the evidence is flimsy. If the whole of London were to see a fuck off alien megaship hovering over Buckingham Palace then the evidence is stronger.

But is it a flying saucer?

So the experts get involved, and if most of them say it's a weather phenomena, or the MOD testing a new air-blimp, or a Blockbuster Film in production testing a new kind of 3-D projector, then we start to think it's not a flying saucer after all. But if they come out and say we can't think of anything it can be except a fuck-off alien mother-ship then we begin to think shit, maybe it's the end of days.

So then we try and look at the data, we ping it with radar, we buzz it with x-rays, I don't know we try and land a drone on it, and if that comes back and says yep, it's something weird and off-worldy, then we say our prayers, or play them some John Lennon, or whatever...

Anyway, the point being that any of those things by themselves don't constitute overwhelming evidence, but when every man and his dog and the expert fucking dog trainer see it, and when the data supports it, then if we're still going nah mate, it's just a fucking cloud innit, then we might start to question whether it's us whose opinion is in fact off kilter.

I think I get your point.

Dele the Allien.

Suddenly it all makes sense